Forums - Cryotone bundles

Bilyeaux Seasoned Member Posts: 158	Cryotone bundles 10/04/23 at 03:05:01 Guys I am considering a bundle for my 2.1 XLR. I have seen some general discussion on these tubes but no luck with the search function, sure its me….Anyone have a bundle in your UFO and what do you think? Randall
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Ghostship

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Posts: 155

Re: Cryotone bundles
Reply #1 - 10/04/23 at 12:10:17

I use a Cryotone Bundle in my Sarah. They sound amazing. The benefits are many, the two best are a) the tubes are individually selected and tested, and b) these tube combinations are chosen to work synergistically, where the sum has an even greater benefit than the parts.

The difficulty in outfitting a Decware amp comes when attempting to maximize the sound quality - you begin to tube roll. Availability of good quality NOS tubes is dwindling. The tubes we often receive have been "tested", which these days can mean virtually nothing. One poor tube could hold back the entirety of the sound quality improvement of the others. It can be frustrating, and ultimately costly.

So, I decided to pay more upfront for a high-quality base-level set of tubes. There may be tubes out there that I could discover that improve what I'm hearing right now...but I have no interest in attempting to seek them out. I am taking that money and simply purchasing a second Cryotone bundle to ensure I retain this sound for years to come.

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Paul Pang Quad Network Switch & Fiber
MSB Premier DAC
Zen Sarah SEWE300B
Cryotone Bundle
Tekton 2-12 Perfect SET Speakers w/ BE Tweeters and Cap & Wiring upgrades
Tekton 2-10 Sub

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GroovySauce Seasoned Member Posts: 864	Re: Cryotone bundles Reply #2 - 10/04/23 at 12:51:54 Quote: There may be tubes out there that I could discover that improve what I'm hearing right now...but I have no interest in attempting to seek them out. Excellent! You're in a great place!
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CAJames Seasoned Member "I've run every red light on memory lane." Posts: 2092	Re: Cryotone bundles Reply #3 - 10/04/23 at 15:55:26 Have you looked in the Cryotone thread: https://www.decware.com/cgi-bin/yabb22/YaBB.pl?num=1647622586 There are a bunch of people, notably JOMAN, who really like the Cryotone tubes. He has a UFO25.
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JOMAN

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Posts: 773

Re: Cryotone bundles
Reply #4 - 10/04/23 at 16:37:49

Hey Randall,
I have fairly extensive experience with the CryoTone tubes and the UFO25 and will comment on that, perhaps it may help.

Currently in my UFO25:
5AR4-WCL (soon to try the new 5AR4-WC V2)
EL84-WC
12AU7 - WCL Long Plate (amazing!)

I have read posts regarding the EL84-WC vs the 6P15PEV treated. Some have found the EL84-WC dark. I have not found that to be the case, but my source components and speakers are different. As I was rolling the CryoTones I noted that they are very transparent and natural. Which means that you're going to hear your upstream components more than ever before.

I started looking at everyones sources and noting a possible connection. My source is the Lumin U2 Mini - Chord Hugo TT2/Hugo M Scaler combo. Also include Filters and cables that all contribute to what is being fed to the downstream components. All of the above contribute to a "clean" transparent, natural sound character in a very good way. That may be why the EL84-WC synergies as well as they do.

Others have the Denafrips Pontus DAC and ZRock. Personally, IMO, a ladder DAC is going to be smoother, warmer and to a small degree less transparent. It's different that's all, and for some preferred. In this case the treated 6P15PEV may be a better fit. I can't say for sure as I have not tried the 6P15PEV.

You have the AR LS25 MK11 Pre. I also had one and it is transparent as well. Depending on your source and speakers either the EL84-WC or the 6P15PEV will be very good.

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Lon

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Posts: 24572

Re: Cryotone bundles
Reply #5 - 10/04/23 at 16:50:30

I'll just mention this: the EL84 will not take advantage of one of Steve's great improvements to the Zen and EL34 amps: the Hazen Grid Mod, also known as the Christmas Comes Early Mod.

It's hard to explain but every time I try an EL84 tube, cryo'd or not, in one the UFO or Taboo amps. . . I immediately sense and miss the sound this mod creates. And I take the EL84 out. The 6P15P tubes have this, to me distinct and important, advantage in being compatible with the mod.

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JOMAN

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Posts: 773

Re: Cryotone bundles
Reply #6 - 10/04/23 at 17:00:41

Lon, in the UFO25 with the EL84-WC I don't miss it at all. In fact with the tube set that I have and source I much prefer this set up. That however does not hold true for other EL84's that I have tried where the difference was notable.

I've noted that there is a perception almost a bias and for good reason that all EL84 will have a similar fundamental character, whether treated or not. That definitely does not hold true for the EL84-WC. And that is IMO the hardest bias to get past until one has tried them and worked with them (gain riding etc.)

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Lon

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"Love without
guts is
worthless!"
Philip K. Dick

Posts: 24572

Re: Cryotone bundles
Reply #7 - 10/04/23 at 17:20:44

Well, I had the SE84UFO3 Monoblocks with all the mods which Steve described as like the SE84UFO25 but "a bit more masculine." I immediately hear the differences there. Of course I've not tried the Cryotone EL84 because. . . I haven't bought into the Cryotone mystique and my experience with two tube type purchases have not been entirely satisfactory for the big prices. I am giving them one more chance with the 300B but that wil end my involvement with them one way or another. I find it very hard to believe that the effect of the Hazen Grid Mod is not heard, not preferred I can believe as we all (and you and I) have differing sonic preferences.

Anyway I put that out there because in all amps and with all the tube types (including EL83 with adaptors etc.) I immediately hear and prefer that difference. I'm very familiar with EL84 tubes and have a few dozen; I first used them in an EICO amp I bought over 30 years ago, and used them in the very first Decware amp I bought, the 27th Steve built; I am not a victim of that particular bias if it exists. Just want it known the difference is there as a factor in decision making.

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CAJames

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"I've run every
red light on memory
lane."

Posts: 2092

Re: Cryotone bundles
Reply #8 - 10/04/23 at 17:21:00

Quote:

Posted by: Lon Posted on: Today at 08:50:30

I'll just mention this: the EL84 will not take advantage of one of Steve's great improvements to the Zen and EL34 amps: the Hazen Grid Mod, also known as the Christmas Comes Early Mod...

This is JMO, FWIW and all that. I'm a big fan of the Hazen Grid Mod (HGM) and in fact had EL83 adapters custom made to maintain compatibility with the HGM. And like others, my experience with EL84s has not been positive, although I have not tried many and have not tried any Cryotone tubes, EL84 or otherwise. But my favorite power tube in my UFOs was the EL822 which also needs an adapter and is not compatible with the HGM. So I guess I will say that while I absolutely can hear an advantage to the HGM, I can agree with JOMAN that you can have excellent results without it. But again, JMO YMMV &c.

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[FOOBAR2000 | Jay's CDT2 MRK3] -> Denafrips Terminator 2 + Gaia
Sumiko Pearwood -> Mapleknoll Athena -> Luxman SUT -> Maple-tree Phono 3E
STR-1002 -> Woo WA22 -> 2x UFO25s, balanced monos
Omega SAM , Hifiman Arya, Audeze LCD-XC

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JOMAN

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Posts: 773

Re: Cryotone bundles
Reply #9 - 10/04/23 at 19:14:50

Quote:

I find it very hard to believe that the effect of the Hazen Grid Mod is not heard, not preferred I can believe as we all (and you and I) have differing sonic preferences.

I think a clarification is in order. I definitely did hear a difference. My preference was with the EL84-WC vs the non treated 6P15PEV with the HGM. CA clarified it better than I when he stated:
Quote:

So I guess I will say that while I absolutely can hear an advantage to the HGM, I can agree with JOMAN that you can have excellent results without it

Having said that, I fully agree that there wasn't one EL84 that I tried prior to the Cryotone that I liked at all, never mind in comparison to the 6P15PEV. One exception is not an EL84 but like you I preferred the original Svetlana SV83?? in my UFO2 I think it was SV83??. In fact I had developed a bias regarding EL84's.

It was only after Steve tried the Cryotone bundle in his UFO and posted about the results so positively that I decided to give the EL84-WC's a try. Had it not been for that I doubt that I would have.

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Lon Seasoned Member "Love without guts is worthless!" Philip K. Dick Posts: 24572	Re: Cryotone bundles Reply #10 - 10/04/23 at 19:18:04 Okay. I preferred SV83 with the older Zen amps and the Taboos until the SE84UFO3 with the mods. (The SV83 is the same tube probably from a different factory.) Then it was Steve's tubes supplied, 6P15P. I honestly think that personal preferences would kick in and I would still prefer the 6P15P to the Cryotone cult EL84.
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Bilyeaux Seasoned Member Posts: 158	Re: Cryotone bundles Reply #11 - 10/04/23 at 22:32:01 Wow, lots of great info and critical thinking going on here! I did not see but will locate the Cryotone page for that info, thanks and Im sure Ill have more questions, in no hurry. Lon I currently have the two output EL83/6CK6, with the 6N1P, and a Silvertone 80’s rectifier and sounds really nice! Cheers Randall
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Lon Seasoned Member "Love without guts is worthless!" Philip K. Dick Posts: 24572	Re: Cryotone bundles Reply #12 - 10/04/23 at 23:03:06 Have you compared to the 6P15P? When I did. . . I sold the EL83. We're all different, but I always choose the tube that will use the HG Mod. I can see why some might not, but it's the clear winner to me against EL84, EL83, EL822. Just my experience since the HG Mod was introduced.
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