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Interesting Products But Hesitant (Read 2304 times)
John Cotner
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Interesting Products But Hesitant
08/31/23 at 18:57:05
 
I'm new to the forum, and am considering replacing my 20+ year old Forest Totems and maybe my PrimaLuna Dialogue amp.  I came to the Decware website after some good reviews of their amps on Audiogon, and discovered not only amps but speakers as well, specifically the ERRx.  The PL/Totem combo worked well when I bought them for a 30'x20' listening room, but now I have an old house and a 15'x14' room with plaster walls.  The Forests don't get up on their hind legs until the power gets to the point it is too loud for the room.  Current room is treated as well as the spouse will tolerate, and speaker placement is 18" from the back wall.  The ERRx looks interesting and Steve D. thinks they may solve some of my room difficulties.  And the sensitivity is pretty good and should b a nice compliment to the PL.

I'm hesitant since there is a 10% restocking fee, along with return shipping if they just aren't what I'm looking for.  I'm not in a position to go to Illinois to take a listen, either.  Has anyone used these speakers in a smallish room?  How do they do if close to walls?  Any other observations on these speakers?

Thanks,

John Cotner
New Ulm, MN
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maddog07
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Re: Interesting Products But Hesitant
Reply #1 - 08/31/23 at 23:53:28
 
have heard the ERRx and their previous incarnations at Decware, in Decware's room - many times.  They are a "music lover's" speaker - not for somebody into "gear" and the churn of always having the next greatest thing.  They are big, spacious and airy sounding.  They are a bit forgiving and perhaps a bit laid-back sounding - certainly when compared to the Decware HDT, DNA, DNA2, etc.  They are not a detail/resolution fanatic's speaker.  They present detail in a natural, never in-your-face manner.  
Have you ever heard an Ohm speaker - similar type of sound.  I think you would find they sound significantly "different" than your conventional box Totem Forest speakers.
I kind of keep an eye out for used ERR's.  Always thought I'd like to have a pair to play around with.  They Do Not come up for sale used very often.
It is extremely hard to judge whether you would like them or not.  You really need to hear them and decide for yourself. That is why I mentioned the Ohm speakers... because they are more common and have a similar sound and you might get lucky and find a pair to listen to.
One thing I can tell you... is if you're going to change speakers AND amp - anything Decware sells will work well together.  At that point, it's a matter of personal taste and the type of music you listen to most, and your sonic priorities.
After the ERRx's, then I would say that Open Baffle speakers, which also have a mostly omni-polar radiation pattern, also have a bigger spacious sound than a conventional box speaker, but with a bit more "direct" sound hitting you from the front, than the ERRx's.
If you have never heard an Open Baffle speaker... it's something you should strive to do.  Most people never go back to conventional box speakers once they've heard OB's.
You can try open baffles, for not a lot of coin, with a pair of these..
https://www.decwareproducts.com/betsy.  These have stunned many a listner.  They are made by a member on this forum RandyInCainTuck... and he has his own website as well -
https://caintuckaudio.com/
If you watch the classified section in this forum, you can probably pick up some open baffle speakers and a decware amp "worth the money" and if the sound is not for you - resell them here in the same place and probably not loose much.
https://www.decware.com/cgi-bin/yabb22/YaBB.pl?board=classifieds
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Kamran
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Re: Interesting Products But Hesitant
Reply #2 - 09/01/23 at 01:57:18
 
+1 for OB—I was bitten by the bug last year at Decfest.

And there ain’t no lookin back….

Randy is a fantastic guy to deal with.  In the grand scheme of things,  Caintuck baffles and Lii Audio drivers are a small investment and as maddog07 said, you probably won’t lose much if you decide that it’s not your thing.
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CAJames
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Re: Interesting Products But Hesitant
Reply #3 - 09/01/23 at 03:14:42
 
My impression is for open baffles to work their magic they need to be well away from the walls. Am I wrong?

The OP is looking for speakers that will work 18" from the wall.
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Kamran
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Re: Interesting Products But Hesitant
Reply #4 - 09/01/23 at 03:44:59
 
Not wrong—I should have paid more attention to that.  Good catch.  If that’s the max they can be out, that certainly changes things.  For OB magic, I think you probably need to be min. 36 inches or more from the wall behind the speakers.
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John Cotner
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Re: Interesting Products But Hesitant
Reply #5 - 09/01/23 at 13:17:48
 
Thanks for the info.  The room is not typical, even for an old house.  It has a 6' pocket door at the back and a pillared 4' wide entry at the side.  The side entry keeps speaker intrusion into the room at 18".  I've tried moving the equipment around the room but these two openings are difficult to manage.  Many years ago I listened to a pair of Ohm speakers at a stereo shop and was impressed, but never took a pair home.
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maddog07
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Re: Interesting Products But Hesitant
Reply #6 - 09/12/23 at 17:33:43
 
Yes OB's definitely need room to breath.  I have 5 different OB's.  They all need to be out at least 3ft... more is better IMO. But even with a conventional box speaker, per the golden rule... 1/3 of the room length out into the room is usually best.  If you've only got 18" to work with, I think the ERR's would be worth a try.  Put some casters on your speakers - pull them out when you want dedicated, critical listening time - move them back out of the way the rest of the time....
Smiley
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Tommy Freefall
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Re: Interesting Products But Hesitant
Reply #7 - 09/13/23 at 00:26:29
 
John, I’ve owned the ERRx speakers for several years now.
I’m in a loft space with a large, open, untreated room (40x30, with a ceiling height of 15-20 feet), with hard surfaces everywhere. During my speaker search, I was on the verge of buying something else, but Steve thought the ERRx speakers would do well in that environment. So, without hearing them, I rolled the dice and tried them out.
Steve was exactly right. A great decision. With their 93 db sensitivity, lower-powered amps can easily drive them. And they have a huge soundstage. I can place myself practically anywhere in the room and they still sound full range. I’ve powered them with the 6 watt Decware Rachael tube amp, a 25 watt Decware Tori Mk V amp, and a 50 watt Bryston SS amp. All of them worked well and were plenty powerful for my 1200 sf loft space. Upon purchasing them I was fully expecting to add a subwoofer at some point, but the bass was so good, I never needed one. Additionally, you can listen to them for hours without fatigue. And they sound good at low volumes too.

Granted your space is much different, but I’ve read that Steve says these speaker will also sound good close to walls, and in a nearfield situation.
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John Cotner
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Re: Interesting Products But Hesitant
Reply #8 - 09/13/23 at 01:10:24
 
Thanks for all of your thoughtful information.  It will help to make a decision.
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Dominick
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Re: Interesting Products But Hesitant
Reply #9 - 09/14/23 at 02:42:31
 
John,

I have the Err’s in my 30x25 living room with an open floor plan with vaulted ceilings.  It’s the last year before the ERRx speakers.  They are forgiving in an untreated room and they sound great.  With the external capacitors, you can play with different capacitors to help tailor the sound to your liking.   FYI…I had a long conversation with Bob Ziegler who built the speakers, and he says that his speakers are conservatively rated in terms of efficiency, and realistically should be like 1-2 dB higher than advertised.  

I run my two SE84C+ 25th amps in a Mono configuration, and they play plenty loud in my space with some headroom to spare.  My Torii MKIV 25th plays them with ease.  I bought mine slightly used, sight unseen and never heard before until I got them in house, and couldn’t be happier.

Hope this helps.

Dom
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1stwattlife
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Re: Interesting Products But Hesitant
Reply #10 - 09/17/23 at 14:38:58
 
I have plaster walls in my apartment as well as lathe/plaster in many houses over the years... they are SO much harder than drywall...

...the thing I have been thinking about with open baffles and room spacing is the difference between using for example the master series versus the betsy,s. Shouldnt the minimum wall distance be much smaller given the ratio of surface area of the back of the baffle being so much smaller?
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