Forums - Is there any BACCH users out there

Steve08226

Senior Member

Posts: 57

Is there any BACCH users out there
09/05/23 at 17:16:33

We are patiently waiting for our Sarah (300b Amp) to come home, we are now about #200 down from #2,000.

While we were waiting we bought a Dennis Had 300b, a Zbit and Zrock II and enjoyed the music.

https://www.theoretica.us/bacch-dsp/

Then we added BACCH and it completely changed our system to be the best sound ever.

BACCH4MAC Intro at under $1K is by far the best bang for the buck we ever spent as an Audiophile. If you haven’t heard a system with BACCH you need to do a search to find out what other are saying.

Just my Thoughts,
Steve08226

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Steve08226 Senior Member Posts: 57	Re: Is there any BACCH users out there Reply #1 - 09/05/23 at 17:20:12 https://youtu.be/KPmJxsmn7N4?si=CEs0Yjx1XfAPsrcc This is a YouTube video we found.
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DJFreon Senior Member Posts: 50	Re: Is there any BACCH users out there Reply #2 - 09/05/23 at 22:12:52 Steve, Looks like a lot of fun. I've used Ableton for a long time and get interesting results.
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briand77

Verified Member

Posts: 9

Re: Is there any BACCH users out there
Reply #3 - 09/06/23 at 10:55:44

There is now another cheaper ($400) option for the universal Bacch filter available. It is implemented as VST3 plug-in for either Windows or Mac. This provided by a company BacchLabs which is separate from (but related to) Theoretica Applied Physics. This product does not provide an upgrade path into the BACCH product line (with calibrated filters and head-tracking capabilities). There is a 14 day free trial, and a 15% early-bird discount.

https: //tinyurl.com/mtt6sm3b

There are long discussion threads here …

https: //tinyurl.com/yc38wcva
https: //tinyurl.com/2awmvajz

that are pretty thorough. For the universal VST3 plugin there is just a single tuning parameter (the half-angle of the listening geometry). This requires a symmetric setup to be effective. Bacch4Mac allows for separate L/R angles. It also helps to have highly directive speakers and absorption at the first reflection points. For soundstage improvement, it is almost “too much” of a good thing. I’m running it from Windows with foobar2000 and setup was simple. A link to the BacchLabs configuration help:

https: //tinyurl.com/5n7njukv

I am unable to insert actual links as I have posted less than 12 messages. You will need to copy and paste the link, and remove the first space.

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CAJames

Seasoned Member

"I've run every
red light on memory
lane."

Posts: 1680

Re: Is there any BACCH users out there
Reply #4 - 09/06/23 at 16:01:36

Quote:

Posted by: briand77 Posted on: Today at 02:55:44
There is now another cheaper ($400) option for the universal Bacch filter available...

... I’m running it from Windows with foobar2000 and setup was simple...

Interesting, thanks for posting. I'm going to check this out. As I was reading the OP I was thinking "too bad I can't use this with Windows/Foobar."

FYI/FWIW here are the clickable links:

https://tinyurl.com/mtt6sm3b

https://tinyurl.com/yc38wcva

https://tinyurl.com/2awmvajz

https://tinyurl.com/5n7njukv

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[FOOBAR2000 | Jay's CDT2 MRK3] -> Denafrips Terminator 2 + Gaia
Sumiko Pearwood -> Mapleknoll Athena -> Luxman SUT -> Maple-tree Phono 3E
Woo WA22 -> 2x UFO25s, balanced monos
Omega SAM , Hifiman Arya, Senn HD-650

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Steve08226 Senior Member Posts: 57	Re: Is there any BACCH users out there Reply #5 - 09/06/23 at 16:40:51 http://open.qobuz.com/playlist/13562888 We have a playlist up on Qobuz that really shows off BACCH. Enjoy, Steve08226
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Steve08226 Senior Member Posts: 57	Re: Is there any BACCH users out there Reply #6 - 09/06/23 at 17:40:02 BTW/ We put a Wathen tube in the Zrock II and it made for a real nice improvement in sound quality.
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Kamran

Seasoned Member

Posts: 947

Re: Is there any BACCH users out there
Reply #7 - 09/07/23 at 03:52:00

Hi Steve08226,

BACCH has been on my radar for the past 6 months or so. Audiophile Junkie on YouTube is its biggest champion and as of late, its dealer. I’ve yet to experience it live. I hope they come to Capital AudioFest in November so I can check it out in person.

That said, I’m a lil weary of adding a MAC and DSP to my signal path and I’m already getting good 3D sound so it’s not necessarily on top of my upgrades list.

I’m pretty sure I ran in to the founder (Edgar C.) of Theoretica Applied Physics—the company behind BACCH, approx. a decade ago at an event in Princeton U. I recall being impressed with his early success licensing his tech to Jawbone (maker of wireless Bluetooth headsets and portable speakers — I still have their Jambox speaker in my stash somewhere). Sadly, Jawbone failed in 2016 but I am glad that Edgar found a path to move forward. I wish him all the best and also thrilled to know that it’s making a profound impact on your rig. Thx for sharing.

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Innuos Pulse Streaming Transport and Phoenix Net Switch-Holo Audio Spring 3 KTE DAC-Ic0n4 Autoformer Passive Pre-Sarah 300B SET Amp-ZBIT-GIK Room Treatment-Caintuck Audio Magnum Baffles—Li Audio Fast 15 Drivers-P.I. Audio MajikBuss & Puritan PSM 156 Conditioners

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briand77

Verified Member

Posts: 9

Re: Is there any BACCH users out there
Reply #8 - 09/07/23 at 04:48:17

@Kamran That said, I’m a lil weary of adding a MAC and DSP to my signal path and I’m already getting good 3D sound so it’s not necessarily on top of my upgrades list.

You can now use this on a Windows machine. This is a much bigger upgrade than any piece of hardware. Your "good" 3D sound will become insane 3D sound. The biggest improvements are with tracks that already have good soundstage. It doesn't create soundstage when it is not already present. Of course, on mono recordings, it does nothing. Currently priced at about $350. Best bang for buck possible.

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Kamran Seasoned Member Posts: 947	Re: Is there any BACCH users out there Reply #9 - 09/07/23 at 15:20:20 Thx for your input briand77 — Not anti MAC (if anything, I’m more of an Apple vs. Microsoft guy)—so it’s more that I don’t want to insert a personal computer in the chain for the time being. However, I’ll be watching this space with continued interest.
Back to top	Innuos Pulse Streaming Transport and Phoenix Net Switch-Holo Audio Spring 3 KTE DAC-Ic0n4 Autoformer Passive Pre-Sarah 300B SET Amp-ZBIT-GIK Room Treatment-Caintuck Audio Magnum Baffles—Li Audio Fast 15 Drivers-P.I. Audio MajikBuss & Puritan PSM 156 Conditioners IP Logged

Paul2 Senior Member Second Hand Rose Posts: 83	Re: Is there any BACCH users out there Reply #10 - 09/07/23 at 15:30:46 How about ROON? Don't you have to download their App to your puter and smart devices? I have stayed away from that also for the same reasons. When Kamran starts using this software and gives it a hardy thumbs up, I'll jump in.
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CAJames

Seasoned Member

"I've run every
red light on memory
lane."

Posts: 1680

Re: Is there any BACCH users out there
Reply #11 - 09/07/23 at 15:37:13

FWIW I'm not going to be using this at the moment. My problem, not the software.

I had no problem downloading and installing the BACCH VST plugin into Foobar, but when it said I would get the configuration screen I did not. I'm sure the issue is that I turned off a bunch of Windows services to optimize by laptop for music and I'm not motivated to figure out which ones I need to re-enable to make this work. Maybe later...

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[FOOBAR2000 | Jay's CDT2 MRK3] -> Denafrips Terminator 2 + Gaia
Sumiko Pearwood -> Mapleknoll Athena -> Luxman SUT -> Maple-tree Phono 3E
Woo WA22 -> 2x UFO25s, balanced monos
Omega SAM , Hifiman Arya, Senn HD-650

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CAJames Seasoned Member "I've run every red light on memory lane." Posts: 1680	Re: Is there any BACCH users out there Reply #12 - 09/07/23 at 15:46:23 Quote: Posted by: Paul2 Posted on: Today at 07:30:46 How about ROON? I don't know ROON, but if it can use VST plugins then you can download the BACCH plugin and demo it for 2 weeks.
Back to top	[FOOBAR2000 \| Jay's CDT2 MRK3] -> Denafrips Terminator 2 + Gaia Sumiko Pearwood -> Mapleknoll Athena -> Luxman SUT -> Maple-tree Phono 3E Woo WA22 -> 2x UFO25s, balanced monos Omega SAM , Hifiman Arya, Senn HD-650 IP Logged

Steve08226

Senior Member

Posts: 57

Re: Is there any BACCH users out there
Reply #13 - 09/07/23 at 16:32:35

Our system:

Mac Mini M2 / Qobuz / Roon / ISO Regen / PS Audio DirectStream MK II DAC / Zbit / Zrock II / Dennis Had 300b Amp / Goldenear Triton Refference… and about $4K in GIK room treatment along with 20 silk plants and trees.

This is the best music we ever had out of our system, if we had to, we would sell any of the equipment except for BACCH4MAC the only way that would leave is to upgrade to a more complete BACCH set up. Can’t see us living without it!

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Steve08226 Senior Member Posts: 57	Re: Is there any BACCH users out there Reply #14 - 09/07/23 at 18:50:13 https://youtu.be/7uwp49ESxRk?si=DMUdXFgPEsOY6tGn This guy can explain it better than I can.
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Doug Seasoned Member Posts: 274	Re: Is there any BACCH users out there Reply #15 - 09/08/23 at 03:24:57 Two Questions: 1) If BAACH requires highly directive speakers, what does that say about use with open baffle speakers? 2) Can BAACH be used with CD player based systems? And what about using it with turntables/vinyl?
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briand77

Verified Member

Posts: 9

Re: Is there any BACCH users out there
Reply #16 - 09/08/23 at 05:00:17

The effectiveness of the universal Bacch filter is improved for directive speakers as the XTC cancellation is based on the direct sound and does not account for room reflections. It may be less of an issue for the calibrated filters. People have reported positive results even for omnidirectional MBL speakers, so it is not an absolute requirement. Edgar C. recommends absorption at the first reflection points. I'm not sure how the rear-wave of OB speakers should be treated, even in the case where the Bacch filter is not being used. I'm sure an email to Edgar would get a response (eventually). For the AXPONA demos, Edgar was using highly directive Janzen speakers which best showcased the product. I am using box speakers and extensive room treatments with diffusers on the front wall. Soundstage was already pretty good before the Bacch.

For vinyl and CD playback you would need to route the signal through your computer/music player (w/ VST Bacch filter). I know how to do this for foobar2000 and it requires the "Recorder" plug-in and some configuration. I have two outputs on my phono preamp. One goes to my preamp, and the second to an E1DA Cosmo ADC and then the laptop for recording purposes (via Audacity). I can also play this signal through foobar2000 with the Bacch filter engaged, but I haven’t been doing so in general. I’m only using the Bacch filter with digital sources, as I want to maintain analog purity for the time being. With the remote I can switch back and forth, so sometimes I peek at my analog-digital performance if I think there may be some soundstage magic. I'm usually listening to mono and/or poorly recorded 45s, so this doesn't happen often.

If anyone needs help configuring the universal Bacch filter with Windows/foobar200 please send an email. I might be able to answer general questions as well, but probably won't be of much help with the specifics of other players. I'm in the Chicagoland area if anyone wants to hear this. I don't have a full equipment sig but am using the Sarah 300B to tie this back to DW.

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Steve08226

Senior Member

Posts: 57

Re: Is there any BACCH users out there
Reply #17 - 09/13/23 at 17:53:00

Just got an email with a no charge update:

Theoretica Applied Physics is pleased to release version 13.5 of its industry-leading spatial audio application, BACCH-dSP. As described in more details in the Release Notes at the bottom of this message, this new version includes new features and a number of improvements to all editions (Intro, Audiophile, Audiophile+, and Pro) of BACCH-dSP.

In particular there are significant improvements to the upsampling algorithm and processing efficiency, as well as enhancements to the stability and functionality of BACCH-dSP.

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Steve08226 Senior Member Posts: 57	Re: Is there any BACCH users out there Reply #18 - 09/13/23 at 17:54:18 We just love this, just like PS Audio’s DirectStream DAC MKII, Theoretica Applied Physics offers free updates for our system. Every few months we get a no charge upgrade. Can’t beat that!
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Dennis

Verified Member

Posts: 4

Re: Is there any BACCH users out there
Reply #19 - 09/15/23 at 16:51:54

Hey Decware enthusiast, I'm a long time lurker but definitely a Decware believer. Just received my XLR Anniversary modded Torii V a few weeks ago. Wait was better than expected, only 20 months Wink

Been rolling the tubes and so far am partial to the sound of Tungsol 6550 new production w some 7308 Holland (thanks LON) signal tubes so far. Like them better a the 7581A power tubes. Just picked up some 1950 CBS Hytron 5U4G rectifiers to through in the mix too.

But this thread is about the BACCH-SP purifier which I've had implemented for about a year now. It is the most bang for the buck anyone could add to their system period. Easy to get up and running, very well supported and gets free updates almost monthly. I have the BACCH4MAC Audiophile +.

It's hard to describe how impactful it is on your system. It doesn't add anything to the sound, in fact it subtracts from the system bu removing cross talk from the left and right speakers. Doesn't change the tone, but does a lot at taming and focusing bass. The cost is really a no brainer, if you're considering changing your DAV or adding an amp. I have mine running with my turntable too, and its doesn't make records sound digital either.

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