Hi all. We are finally on page one of the 'build sheet' and our order is of the SE84UFO2.1. I tossed around which model at the time of order, but now I am second guessing for the Rachael. We will be using a pair Klipsch ChorusII's which are 'said' to be 101db @ 1watt/1 meter. We listen to all kinds of music from mellow rock (Sarah McLachlan, Bread, America  type) , some country-blue grass (Alison Krauss,) to classic rock like Pink Floyd, Zeppelin, Rush etc. We do tend to crank up the volume some and when we have it turned down, it is likely still above the average listeners level. Anyway, any input is greatly appreciated.  [smiley=beer.gif] I need to make my mind up.. for keeps soon. At least the next few months.  :D  ~Mike  

Mostly $$$. Increased output a bit as well maybe.. I read this a few months ago and it just stuck with me too. Steve Deckert about Rachael: "In summary, if I were building and amplifier for myself... this is how I would do it when there are no concerns about the profitability of mass production or how much power it might make and you just want the very best possible sound."

My speakers are pretty rare, but we sure love them, since 1998. Just looking for those that either have one or the other or maybe even both amps.  Klipsch forteII, or my model. Great response! Thanks for that James!

Not all that many of us using older Klipsch, especially with all these Decware versions you actually own! Awesome! I may pick your brain some if you don't mind down the road via message. I too would only be using the dac inside an Oppo 103 as the only source hooked up directly to the amp. What a great reply too Jack~ Really appreciate your input!! Mike

Hello, Mike.  Congratulations on getting close to delivery of your amp.

I have an old SE84C and a more recent Rachel (SE34I.5).  I really liked the SE84C sound - when I bought it I confirmed that I could hear a clear difference from an older solid state receiver.  I thought the SE84C was much more "detailed," and I heard things in familiar music that I had never heard before.  I use the SE84C with Klipsch RP-260F speakers that have a rated sensitivity of 97db. (This speaker is now discontinued, but it is very similar to the current rp-6000f speakers).

I recently bought a Rachel (to ultimately drive a less sensitive speaker).  My initial listening was on the Klipsch RP-260f's, and I thought the sound was very similar to the SE84C, but with the ability to play a bit louder.  I think I have read reviews on this forum that indicate the Rachel may be a little more "laid back" than the SE84C, but I did not hear a big difference between the two amps (full disclosure - I do not have "golden ears!).  

I do have two observations:

(1) I note that you like to listen at above average levels.  CA James noted that choosing the Rachel could let you avoid second guessing your choice, and I think that may particularly make sense with the long wait-list times.

(2) It looks like you will use the amp without a pre-amp.  While most Decware amps come to full power with an input of 2 volts, the Rachel needs 2.5 volts to reach the full 6 watt output.  Without a pre-amp, the Rachel might only provide about 4.8 watts (still roughly double the power of the SE84UFO) rather than 6 watts.  That suggests that the Rachel might give you about 3db of additional volume, rather than 4db (which is not a huge difference).

Hope that provides a little help (and I agree with CA James that both amps seems like good choices for your efficient speakers).





 

I have not heard an 84UFO, but have heard earlier Rachaels.

The one I owned for a while, I think maybe .2, so quite a while ago, was a little too low power for my speakers and room, too close to clipping on some music. So I punched it up with GZ34, KT77, and a 6N2P to try for a greater sense of optimized loudness, and that worked to a point, though for this setup I ended up with a Torii. That said, I really liked the open clarification and dynamics these tube changes brought to the SE34 amp in this setting.

I did not know much about tubes then, so don't know what I would end up with now, especially if I had more efficient speakers (the ones I had at the time were 94dB), but maybe not the 6N2P and who knows what else.

Where I am heading though... one thing to consider with a Rachel is the ability to get more sonic landscape flavors with tubes, having more options with the power tubes. Not that this would necessarily make it "better," as a lot of folks seem to love the SV83/6P15P-EV and the SE84UFOs in general, but I love to play with tube tuning options myself, so just another thought from a tube head.

Quote:


True, but.... between the input tubes and rectifier there plenty of options to keep (almost) any UFO owner busy rolling tubes for as long as she/he wants. And if you want to get a little crazy with the power tubes there are other flavors of the 6P15P to try as well as e.g. the EL83 and EL822 with adapters, with which I've had excellent results.

I should clarify that a bit....

Some folks seem really good staying with the stock tubes more or less in their Decware amps, and maybe playing with new brands or NOS when replacements are needed.

And I have no doubt that using just an SE84UFO with tubes available can have many flavors playing with three tube types.

A little more out on the tubehead, tune-ability loving limb... in my current setup, I am using my 300B amp which has four tube types. A 6SN7 input, though at the moment I am preferring a little more open and powerful sounding 7N7s with an adapter, making the amp clearer and more vivid. Its internal set up is still just a little dark/full for me, but as much, the 300Bs I am using now are a bit warmish for me. So using cleaner, more open tubes in other places to pull the deeper beauty is a great tool. And beautiful it is! Open these 300Bs up with other tubes, and the amp really sings, even without a lot of hours on the 300Bs...

For drivers are 6BX7, and I hear less profound differences in makes and vintages, but still useful for sound shaping. Then 300Bs and rectifiers, variations of both pretty powerfully influencing this amp's sound. Seems these 300Bs in a resolving setup, and in this amp, can be changed by the other tubes in big ways, particularly powerful with the input and rectifiers. Both of them together can make a particular 300B sound really good, great, or pretty world class lucid music with the right tube support.

Also, I am using a ZBIT, Zrock2, and ZStage as pre. The latter two I sometimes use 12AU7 variants, and sometimes 12AT7 variants, which can represent pretty vast choices for adjusting sound with these one-tube components... and even more so tuning them together, and with the 300B amp.

So this system has four components after the DAC using 6 tube types, as well as the ZBIT, ZRock, Zstage gain adjustments for pretty powerful tuning tools, all of which I play with regularly, especially as I get to know this amp.

In my Torii IV system, the Torii has 5 tube types, all very useful. Though I don't adjust VRs much anymore, I am really glad to have been able to adjust them to tastes, as I much prefer how the ones I use influence the rest of the tubes and sound options in general compared to stock. Then the ZBIT, then ZRock, then CSP3 which has 3 tube types, all of which I play with fairly regularly for overall system tuning... for optimizing other tube changes... and for changing up the sound experience some, helping me hear more into the music.... So that is 10 tube positions, 8 that I enjoy playing with with some frequency, along with four gains to tune optimally for system/room, and for recording variations.

Of course, this is how my journey has evolved, and not for everyone, but great for crafting a very refined sound to tastes and room. Pretty amazing how this many options and more can take it all above and beyond in optimization toward a deeply transporting and authentic sound.

Nice! Happy days.

My wife loved the music almost as much as I without the audio quest part also driving her as much as I. But she liked that too as I went. She had a great ear, and always corroborated or expanded my perception by how she heard and interpreted subtle changes. Lucky too!

Happy anniversary Mike and Kathy.

Cheers

Sweet Mike! Glad you are getting sorted out from you health trauma! Nothing like a supportive and loving wife!

Great story with a happy ending. So many stories like this don't end as well. Several of us here could tell them, but we'd rather hear one like this.

Hope you both have a wonderful day.

Congrats on the Anniversary! We recently celebrated lucky 13. Unlike you guys, my wife doesn't share the same level of music insanity as I do, but i'm keeping her just the same. She can't understand my need to be "in" the music, she just needs to hear it.

And that's a hell of a health scare, glad you pulled through.

Have you come closer to deciding on an amp? I can't offer much advice. I've only heard the SE84UFO and a SE84C-EX. I rarely stretch it legs to full beans, so 90% of the time I'm happy with its output. It's a very rare occasion that I get to the point of, I wish there was a bit more oomph. I run speakers in the mid/high 90DB range in a 14x20ish room.

Hi Sean. Congrats to you guys as well! And thank you for the best wishes too! As of right this minute, I am still sticking with the original order. Something I forgot to mention in original post, our front room is on the larger size 30 feet wide x 25 feet long. Room is shared with the kitchen and dining room opposite of living room side. One of them open floor plan deals. High cathedral ceilings at 14 foot peak running front of room to rear. Rest of home has 10 foot ceilings. Our main speakers are at 9 feet apart and we sit in front of them at 15 feet. Currently we have a 5.3 set up for surround and HD music etc. splitting between that and stereo depending. Current setup sounds fantastic in here. Amazingly so! The Decware will be used with the same fronts and the 'extra' oppo as source all by itself when listening to the Decware. We can tell that these speakers are definitely sensitive as they can easily gain clean volume with ease. We do not play mind blowing levels as we are not exactly kids anymore...but as posted..a bit louder than average levels for us. Thank you Sean!

I have owned both!

Presently we have a pair of SE84UFO's.  Previously, I have had the original SE84, then two of them.  Have had nearly every iteration except the "Twenty fifth Holy Grail".

I have owned the Rachel for ten years.  Loved it!  Recently, I sold it to finance another amp.

Decware has never sold an inferior product in my opinion.  Each of their offerings are exceptional !

That said, I like the sound of the SE84UFO the best for me.  Others will disagree.

I'm sure that whatever you chose will make you happy!

Congratulations on you 41st anniversary, Mike and Kathy!

That's a big number!

Glad to hear your health problems are more manageable these days.
Best of luck!

"That's fantastic Mike. Happy Anniversary! Love is the most important thing. It doesn't ever have to end, if you hold onto it even death can't conquer it." Lon, that really hits home. Such wonderful people here. I have decided to stick with the original order. Thank you all so much! I appreciate every reply very much! All the very best everyone.. ~Mike