Yes, I really prefer gain-riding to dial in my sound.

I set the gain controls on my Sarah at the 3 o’clock position. I’ve found that this is where the sound really blooms for my specific set-up. This is opposed to 2 o’clock which I’ve found a little lacking, and anything past 3 o’clock adds nothing sonically.

Then, I use the gain control on the Freya+ to increase/decrease volume with no or very little decrease in sound quality. Here a “low listening” level is at 12 o’clock, normal listening at 2 o’clock, and ear-pain level in my space is just above 3 o’clock.

I have a small, nicely treated listening room with:

VMV D1se DAC: XLR Out 5.2Vrms, 207Ω Output impedance, 130 dB Dynamic Range and 130 dB SNR with -121dB THD (0.00009%);

Schiit Freya+ with Wathen Cryotone 6SN7 tubes: Input Impedance: 10K ohms, 12dB of Tube Gain, Frequency Response: 20Hz-20Khz -0.2db, 3Hz-200KHz -3dB, THD: <0.01%, 20Hz-20KHz at 1V RMS, IMD: <0.01%, CCIR, SNR: >115dB, A-weighted referenced to 2V RMS, Output Impedance: 75 ohms Single Ended (will be 600 ohms balanced output when I get a ZBIT); and

In my Sarah SEWE300B, I’m using the full Wathen Cryotone tube bundle, which includes their: 300Bs, ECC88 driver tubes, 12AU7 input tube, the 5AR4-WC rectifier which has a voltage drop of only 17 volts compared to the 5U4 types which have a voltage drop around 70 volts, and OC2-WC VR tubes have a voltage drop of 75 volts.

Like Lon…I run my ZBIT at about 80% with a pair of my SE84C+ setup as mono’s.  With my Torii MKIV, I run the ZBIT at max.  With my CSP2+ in the mix….  I like to run it at approximately 70% in both amps.  The CSP2+ is new so I’m still experimenting. The aforementioned is all with digital recordings and streaming.  When I play vinyl….I find myself sometimes adding a bit more gain vs digital depending on the album.

Dom

My Torii sounds most even across the volume range I use, so it is my core volume adjustor in my system. My ZBIT, ZRock, and CSP3 as I have them setup are quite transparent, and more about signal/sonic tuning for variations on smooth clarity, density, speed, hit, spatiality... Each does these a little differently and the way I have them setup and tuned, they are complimentary with their differences. In the average gain ranges I prefer for each, they sound like they add gain, but not excessive, mostly just enough to bring out their special sonic traits. (I guess my toned down CSP3 does start to sing with pretty high voltage out, but does not sound pushed).

As a baseline, I adjust each until the sound feels just-enhanced by the particular qualities the pre stage offers, "on" but not in the face. The top of each's range remains musically subtle in some ways, but pretty profound in others in terms of excitement of feeling "in the room" from combined signal enhancements/refinements... my max gain soundwise for each is before a sense of saturation in any part of the spectrum or speed, just going for a little more smooth clarity, lucidity, harmonic complexity, hit, weight, soundstage separation, etc. Each of these stages contribute to all of these traits with different signatures and emphasis, so once balanced, it can refine into a more complex musical experience for me, making it realer, more captivating.

The ZBIT mainly does its transformer "filtering" and voltage adjustments add or subtract weight, hit, density, and clarity in its non-tube way. The range I like with my 6 volt out DAC is usually from 12-3 o'clock.

The ZRock makes similar signal adjustments the way I use it, but with more tube influence, and though I don't use it for bass adjustment, the tube, "EQ" board, and design in general do a good bunch of things for musical refinement. By tuning voltage/gain I like it best set for just a little "more" of everything in terms of signal power and clarity. Just above unity gain for a given tube, I guess it acts more like a mini-CSP3 than the ZBIT, but also like itself. Trying to narrow it down, I guess I think of it as refining density, lucidity and harmonic complexity.

The CSP3 does all of the above in its own smooth ways. I can tune the sound for more balance spectrally based on the system and/or recordings...but narrowing it down in the mix, it might be considered a lucidity tuner here. Though all of these, with a little more voltage, increase lucidity and support sound stage saturation and spacial clarity, the CSP3 probably is more about this the way I have it set up. I get nice refinements with density and weight, but also smooth and complex harmonics in space (if it is there in the front end and not truncated on the way). Settings can help players feel more clearly and solidly in each of their sound spaces, and this is enhanced by all between and around the players being more present, ambient information waking up......

On reflection, I guess my baseline comes from tuning each stage to do what it does relatively subtly while sounding at its best on its own. Seeking this slightly awakened musicality for each more-or-less sets up initial gain matching between them also. Then if needed, I tune them a little for optimizing all these traits for the system/room. And finally I love using gain adjustments for fine tuning individual recordings needing adjustment. Roughly, I gain one or another up to fill out leaner recordings, and for denser/thicker/darker recordings... gain down a little... They are all still active gains at these lower levels I think, but it does not feel like much. And often I will just adjust one or another knowing the sonic influences of each when tuning, or maybe two...

Probably important to say all my stuff is modified heavily, basically just to do all it originally did more completely and with more nuance, while also allowing exceptional spectral balances and convincing speed and dynamics across the spectrum. Related, rich and lucid musical resolution and transparency are critical to me... seeking to pull all that is there musically, and without being pushy or forceful. I like it excited but relaxed, so I need loads of smear free easy delivery with as much spacious musical complexity as I can get within natural sounding balances. I try to pull the music's amazing very fine detail in space, detail complexity supporting everything real, including a natural "warmth" that is clear and awake, all levels of detail complexity contributing to subtle information like textures, decays, etc, and doing it without hardness or knocking me on the head. Throughout my modifications an objective is to pull musical qualities subtly, but really paying attention, and perpetually re-discovering how much is on a 16/44.1 recording. With more complete information, I find a lot of subtle seeming improvements can be really powerful in the musical experience. And as with system tuning with room and cables, etc, this gets more refined as I get more refined in listening. It is cool to feel the thread as it evolves, each piece tuned individually, but also inadvertently tuned to support the others more fully.

Then with gain riding, these qualities can get even more entrancing and real, especially with all stages synergistically tuned together. For example, all else optimized, turning the ZRock just a bit more or less above unity, is sort of like making an adjustment in the Torii, enhancements from more voltage gain in the ZRock making the Torii's traits a little more complexly solid, lucid and awake, but still sounding like the Torii.

Also, I love this setup a lot of ways. I can run direct to the Torii from the DAC and love it... or with any one of these pre stages alone between DAC and Torii...or two of them... but I tend to prefer all three. To me the added complexity from sonically correct feeling and fairly transparent pre stages, by combining individual influences together, it can be awakening. With the right setups for each, each of them can help make recordings sound realer to me... but balanced together, it can be enchanting... the listener and music intertwined.


I am going to bend a rule of this thread because I think it is relevant to the area of gain tuning and how it works using with Decware. Currently I am not using the Torii, working on a nice 300B amp with no volume control. So the pre stages are now the only volume, while also using them for adjusting sound, the main way I have always preferred using them to date, for sound.

Interestingly, with this 300B, it can get surprisingly close to my intentionally lower key Torii in volume in this room, so the basic range of knob settings on my pre stages are close. At this point of modifications in the 300B, I needed to use more transparent, fast, and a little more powerful tubes in the CSP3 and the ZRock, as well as slightly powerful feeling and more transparent and fast tubes I have for the 300B. This really opens the amp up and makes it sing.

The Zrock is still lightly adjusted for tuning room and recordings, but not so much for volume unless I want more or less ZRock traits. Then adjusting it a little might do what I need volume wise. So far I prefer adjusting volume in bigger ways using the CSP3 and ZBIT together, keeping them in the relative ranges they sound best individually to me. And I can tune for recordings with them at the same time, sometimes more ZBIT in the blend and sometimes more CSP3. Similarly with high volume versus low, adjustments are based on how they balance with each other to make the whole room sound more real. It is more refined and real for various needs, and less hifi feeling using both for volume and gain tuning with this current setup.

It may seem a little complicated, but it does not feel that way to me. After using gain riding for so long, it is second nature for me. I don't really think about it, just make a quick adjustment if needed and enjoy.

As Lon...With a mono SE84C+ setup, I operate my ZBIT at around 80%.  I put the ZBIT through its paces with my Torii MKIV.  When I use my CSP2+, I often set the volume to around 70% on both amplifiers.  Since I just got the CSP2+, I'm still learning how to use it. All of the aforementioned are possible thanks to digital media storage and playback.  When I play an album on vinyl, I occasionally give it a little more gain than I would with digital.