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Newly acquired  ZBIT conundrum (Read 1723 times)
Dominick
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Newly acquired  ZBIT conundrum
12/01/22 at 15:43:54
 
So as luck would have it…I acquired a used ZBIT on eBay late last night.   It’s configured with dual stepped attenuators.  While I wasn’t in the market for one… I always wanted to be able to take advantage of the balanced outputs of my DAC with 4 volts going to my preamp.   Plus the cost was literally half off the price of a new ZBIT.  

Here is my current signal chain… PC>DAC>ZSB>ZSTAGE>ZEN or Torii.  I have it set up this way because I use the second set of outputs from my switchbox going to a powered subwoofer. I tried reversing the chain to go from the DAC to the ZSTAGE first, and then the switch box, but the increased voltage going to the sub isn’t playing well with my powered subwoofer.  Ideally I’d like to have an unmolested signal going to the sub.  

With that being said….has anyone ever heard of having the second set of outputs on the switch box being wired up to tame down the 4 volt signal coming out of my DAC to drop it to a 2 volt signal.  

I guess if all else fails I could add a ZBOX to drop the voltage going to the sub, but that seems like an expensive option hat I’d rather not incur.  

Once I get the ZBIT home and wired up…I’ll evaluate it then, but i have a hunch that it’s not going to jive.

Any thoughts on this conundrum would be appreciated.  

Dom
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Rasp. Pi 4 [Roon], Schiit Bifrost True Multibit DAC, ZBIT, ZROCK2, My Audio Cables Ultra Silver+, ZSB, CSP2+ 25th, DAG Cables, DHC1, Torii MKIV 25th /2 White Zen SE84C+ 25th mono’s, Rega P2 Turntable,Rega Fono MK5, Velodyne Dual Firing Sub, ERR’s [Bubbinga Wood]
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Lon
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Re: Newly acquired  ZBIT conundrum
Reply #1 - 12/01/22 at 16:09:20
 
I don't have an answer regarding the switch box and the subwoofer as I have no experience with either.

But congrats on that ZBIT purchase! I would have been tempted to grab it had I seen it. I have one with the dual attenuator setup and one without and there's no sonic disadvantage to the dual setup and I often find myself making tiny adjustments that help with balance and stage results.

I think you're going to be very happy with the adjustable total 4 volts to your amplification. Experiment with the adjustable gain--in my set up I generally prefer the ZBITs at about 80 percent.
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Steve Deckert
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Re: Newly acquired  ZBIT conundrum
Reply #2 - 12/01/22 at 16:14:56
 

Why can't you turn your sub down... does it not have a level control?

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Dominick
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Re: Newly acquired  ZBIT conundrum
Reply #3 - 12/01/22 at 19:41:32
 
Thanks Lon…. Having the dual stepped attenuators was definitely a plus with this purchase. The ZSTAGE and ZBIT will blend nicely with my incoming ZROCK2.  I just placed a Black Friday order for a CSP3, so at some point down the road, I’ll retire the ZSTAGE.

Steve….the sub does have a volume control.   In my old setup before I moved into my new house…I tried running the ZSTAGE and my sub together.    To dial in the ZSTAGE with my Torii…it put out too much gain going to the sub making it too loud.  When I would dial the sub back to compensate…..the sub got too quiet too quick.  The volume control became hypersensitive to any adjustments.  

I know the best way to utilize the sub is through speaker level inputs….But when my house was under construction I placed the sub in a location adjacent to my listening position, and ran RCA lines underneath the ground to where my audio rack would be located.  My mistake was not running speaker lines as well to properly wire up the sub, so it now forces me to use the RCA inputs exclusively.  

Once I get the ZBIT in house, I’ll report back to see how things fare out once i set it up.
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EdwardT
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Re: Newly acquired  ZBIT conundrum
Reply #4 - 12/01/22 at 21:46:02
 
You could always add another volume control into the sub chain, I’ve been using a Sys after a Jensen iso-max to adjust the gain to dual subs (the input level is on the back).
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Edsonic
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Re: Newly acquired  ZBIT conundrum
Reply #5 - 12/02/22 at 04:51:13
 

You could use a pair of inline attenuators like these -

https://www.parts-express.com/home-a-v/audio-video-accessories/line-level-attenu...

Insert them between the terminal end of the interconnect and the sub line-in, to keep the signal strong while wending its way through all the RF.

The -3dB version would lower 4V to 2.8V, the -6dB insert to 2V.

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Edsonic
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Re: Newly acquired  ZBIT conundrum
Reply #6 - 12/02/22 at 06:06:33
 

I read through the OP again and wondered about a few things.

- "Here is my current signal chain… PC>DAC>ZSB>ZSTAGE>ZEN or Torii.  I have it set up this way because I use the second set of outputs from my switchbox going to a powered subwoofer. I tried reversing the chain to go from the DAC to the ZSTAGE first, and then the switch box, but the increased voltage going to the sub isn’t playing well with my powered subwoofer." -

Why did you put the ZSTAGE after the DAC instead of going from DAC > ZSB - second output > powered subwoofer? That's the problem right there; too much gain from the ZSTAGE into the amplifier input of the sub. Did you try it with ZSTAGE after the ZSB?

To be clear, the chain should be: DAC  > ZSB -output one- > ZSTAGE > Zen/Torii; (ZSB) -output two- > powered sub.

With your new box, the chain would be: DAC > ZBIT > ZSB - then the two pair of outputs as above.

In any case, the ZBIT has attenuators to lower the output level, from max 4V (in this case) to whatever lower level works for you and your gear. So any other attenuation is not needed.

The ZSTAGE should be nowhere but directly before the main amplifier(s).

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Dominick
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Re: Newly acquired  ZBIT conundrum
Reply #7 - 12/02/22 at 07:41:36
 
Edsonic,
.
Yes my current chain is DAC>ZSB> output 1 to ZSTAGE>Zen /Torii…. output 2 on ZSB to sub.  This way the sub is getting the standard 2v signal, and the ZSTAGE feeing the amps are fully adjustable allowing me to change the voltage to give the sound more  weight any density.  I should have been clearer in my original post… I only tried it the other way as an experiment, but realized that that was the incorrect way to feed the signal, so I changed it back.  

I purchased the ZBIT to take advantage of the added gain coming off of my DAC to feed my preamp; since the ZSTAGE’s input can handle up to 5 volt max.  

By adding the ZBIT into the mix….the signal coming off the DAC will now be 4 volts….so when it passes through the ZBIT, the signal will now be adjustable and boosted.  
So as I dial in the ZBIT….the signal going into the ZSB  will also change.  Hence…output 1 going to the ZSTAGE will be boosted ( which is what I want),  but so will output 2 going to the Sub ( which is what I don’t want).  I want to be able to dial in the loudness of my sub to my liking and then an leave it alone.  Riding and adjusting the gain of the ZBIT to feed the ZSTAGE will conversely change the loudness of the sub.  Does this make more sense…..sorry for any confusion.   


And I just realized that this post is #666 for me…..Creepy!

Dom


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Rasp. Pi 4 [Roon], Schiit Bifrost True Multibit DAC, ZBIT, ZROCK2, My Audio Cables Ultra Silver+, ZSB, CSP2+ 25th, DAG Cables, DHC1, Torii MKIV 25th /2 White Zen SE84C+ 25th mono’s, Rega P2 Turntable,Rega Fono MK5, Velodyne Dual Firing Sub, ERR’s [Bubbinga Wood]
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Edsonic
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Re: Newly acquired  ZBIT conundrum
Reply #8 - 12/02/22 at 08:49:11
 

Yes, I wasn't sure if you had tried it w/ ZSB 2 out to sub or not. So you did.

So you still might have an issue if your ZBIT setting is high enough to cause trouble for the powered sub input. Or maybe not.  It might be less than what was coming out of the ZSTAGE, and so maybe not an over sensitive sub input control issue.

If, after trying out your new ZBIT with a setting that sounds best to you as feeding the ZTSAGE and the amplifier, the sub's input seems to control the level easily, then you're done.

If not, inserting an inline -3dB or -6dB attenuator at the sub amp input as mentioned in my prior post should do the trick.

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Dominick
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Re: Newly acquired  ZBIT conundrum
Reply #9 - 12/02/22 at 09:19:32
 
Thanks Ed,

As a reference point…Lon mentioned that he runs his ZBIT at like 80%.   On any given day… I will run my ZSTAGE at like the 3 or 4 o’clock position.  Unity gain is at the 12 o’clock position… so I’m probably at like 75% give or take.  The ZSTAGE puts out between 0 and 15 volts…so I’m thinking I’m feeding my amps like 10 volts.  

As you pointed out…there is actually a decent  chance that I may be ok, since I will be feeding it less with the ZBIT.  I really won’t know until I get it all hooked up to know for sure.   But…. Inserting either the -3 or -6 dB attenuator sounds like it will  solve any potential issues if they present their selves.

Thanks for your help…I appreciate it.  At least now I have an alternative solution.  



***UPDATE…. I just read the user manual on my Schiit Bifrost 2 Multibit Dac….and if  states that both the XLR and RCA outputs are active at the same time. For some reason I thought that once the XLR outputs are used they took precedence over the RCA.  This is perfect because I can now take RCA output signal and go directly to my subwoofer.  I can then use the XLR output signal to go through my switch box and onto my Preamp with the added gain I was looking for.  Problem solved.    

Dom
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Rasp. Pi 4 [Roon], Schiit Bifrost True Multibit DAC, ZBIT, ZROCK2, My Audio Cables Ultra Silver+, ZSB, CSP2+ 25th, DAG Cables, DHC1, Torii MKIV 25th /2 White Zen SE84C+ 25th mono’s, Rega P2 Turntable,Rega Fono MK5, Velodyne Dual Firing Sub, ERR’s [Bubbinga Wood]
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