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08/18/22 at 02:25:57 




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Mini Torii with vintage 3 way sealed speaker (Read 154 times)
chapsjon
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Mini Torii with vintage 3 way sealed speaker
07/17/22 at 02:35:47
 
I finally have completed a military move from which my MT was in storage for a year. I have it connected to my Sony SS-5050 speakers, which are vintage (early 70's) top of the line for Sony. They preceded the flagship G-7, which use the same speakers but are bass reflex. The SS-5050's are sealed, with 90db efficiency into 8ohm. They were high tech meets traditional crafstman, with all 3 speakers made of mix of carbon and paper, with huge magnets, in a sealed (with gaskets) birch-ply box.  Mid and treble are both dome. Everything made in house by Sony. I even found a Japanese only website talking about the speaker factory Sony had in Japan at the time and the processes they used. Not typical consumer level stuff.

My main point is to give the MT some love. I have never listened to one of the PP Torii's, but I almost can't believe how well 4 watts drives several vintage 3-way speakers I have tried. With the SS-5050's, the MT can go from hard and fast hitting, with tons of bass and blazing rock music, to smooth jazz. Admitted, my listening room is likely smaller than most at about 10 by 12, but I am also talking rock levels at 1/4 up on the gain knobs. There is plenty of power here to easily fill a 14 by 20 room.

It seems like most using Decware choose full range speakers, with OB or some special bass reflex design to widen the freq range. I have DW 945's that I played extensively with the MT. They are fantastic, but I do think some people are missing out on great sound at good prices by not considering vintage speakers in general, and especially 3-ways. There is a reason they were the rage in the 70's. Yes, they can have coherence and phase issues if not designed properly. Get a top of the line model like I have. When rightly implemented and driven, you will be astounded by the bass that is lightning fast and accurately tuned.

Of course all the caveats of being used apply, but I get great joy out of revitalizing vintage. I want others to realize what an MT can do. Drive vintage 3-ways with true aplomb! This little amp is amazing!
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LR:Mini Torii, CSP2+ & Pioneer Exclusive M4, Accuphase E-303
Wright WPP100 phono, Graham Slee Jazz Club
Technics SL-1200MK3D Grace F-8 & Nagaoka MP-110
Yamaha NS-1000M, KEF Reference 101, Sony SS-5050
BR: SE84C+, ZP1 phono, Decware 945
JVC QL-7 Shure V15 Type
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BicycleJoe Lo-Fi
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Posts: 369
Re: Mini Torii with vintage 3 way sealed speaker
Reply #1 - 07/17/22 at 20:53:14
 
I just had my JVC QLY-66F restored, now my 3 way JBL 240 Ti's. I bought both new in the Audio Dept at the Base BX at Camp New Amsterdam in 1985. The JBL's are in the shop for new surrounds, checking the coils and getting a crossover upgrade.

Still since they are just 89db efficient I'm not sure they are the right speakers for the Rachel that I have an order along with the ZP3 phono pre. It would be nice if it's compatible.

Meanwhile I am looking at new speaker designs and have not been totally sold on the idea of crossover-less full range speakers being reinforced with a sub woofer.... Sparks had an album called A Woofer in Tweeter's Clothing.
Some of these new designs with seven tweeters for mid range are interesting. I wonder if they synchronize a delay timed array for firing the tuned tweeters. I also like the Crites Heritage style horn cabinets. I think simple is better. Personally I like paper cones and silk tweeters, I never really cared for metallic cones or titanium even though I have a pair.
My room may be too small for big horns. Maybe the Forte style.
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*Rachel SE 34.6I *ZP3 * all anniversary mods & upgrades * stock ZLC*

"Once there was a note, pure and easy,playing so free like a breath rippling by,the note is eternal, I hear it, it sees me,forever we blend and forever we die".
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chapsjon
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Posts: 144
Re: Mini Torii with vintage 3 way sealed speaker
Reply #2 - 07/18/22 at 02:51:50
 
Thank you for your service!

Almost all of my vintage stereo gear is thanks to my recent tour in Japan, bought at Japanese 2nd hand shops. That's how I got these beauties cheap that sold new for about $700 a pair in Japan (in 1974). I'm not sure if they were ever released to the US. I also have a JVC QL-7 that I'm currently running a Shure V15 type III on. The JVC TT-71 is rock solid and UA 5045 Tonearm is really smooth. It would cost a bit to compare a new TT.

I haven't heard a Rachel, so I can't say it would drive all speakers an MT will, but from what I've read elsewhere in the forum, power output should be as good or slightly better than an MT. As you know, that's not the only factor with speakers though. In Steve's white paper on the MT, he writes that it really delivers bass to speakers like you wouldn't expect for a 4 watt SE. Maybe the SEP vs SET typology is a difference that helps with driving speakers regardless of watts. I'm not sure.

I would personally try it, especially since you already have the speakers. You've got nothing to lose. If you are getting the surrounds redone, you may want to exercise the speakers a bit with another amp to loosen things up first. New surrounds can require some break in, which would further limit what the Rachel could do.

My Decware 945's are technically crossover less (w/ cap on ribbon tweeter) and I think they sound great, but I am more of a fan of large 3-ways for classic rock and more complex music like classical. I don't own a sub, so that's part of it. I have never tried nor wanted to try integrating a sub, when a good 3-way can give you the low end without the synch, blending, or placement issues of a sub. Good 3-ways deliver bass, weight, dynamics, fill the room, etc.... That's why even though I have other speakers, I will not give up my 3-ways.

When I first decided to try Decware several years ago, I bought the 945's at the same time as the MT with the assumption that nothing else I had would work. Being the curious type, I decided to try the MT with everything I have anyway. I don't own speakers that don't work with the MT, though volume does decrease with less efficiency speakers. What really blew me away though, was how great it sounds on my Yamaha NS-1000M, 500Ma, and Sony SS-5050's. My 945's are used now on my ZEN 2.3 watt.

I'm with you that there's really something to paper cones, and paper or silk domes. Paper is fast and natural sounding. Silk tweeters can deliver the high freq without harshness. A well designed 3-way with the right speaker in each position can really sound good. One of the things I love about the Sony is that the mid-dome handles everything from 1.5KHz to 8KHz, so the most sensitive area to human hearing is all from one driver. Because all cone and dome material is the same, coherency is amazing.

I haven't play my MT with horn speakers, so can't advise. I hope you have the same experience I have an your JBL's sound great with your Rachel.
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67839033255__0FA6D203-FEFB-4D83-981B-11A09DCEEDE4.jpg

LR:Mini Torii, CSP2+ & Pioneer Exclusive M4, Accuphase E-303
Wright WPP100 phono, Graham Slee Jazz Club
Technics SL-1200MK3D Grace F-8 & Nagaoka MP-110
Yamaha NS-1000M, KEF Reference 101, Sony SS-5050
BR: SE84C+, ZP1 phono, Decware 945
JVC QL-7 Shure V15 Type
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