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Hello from Memphis...6moons "budget" system? (Read 287 times)
6sigma
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Hello from Memphis...6moons "budget" system?
01/13/22 at 03:05:16
 
I'm new here, but enthusiastic about something I read this evening. I have a couple of questions.

At my advanced age there aren't many things in the audio field that surprise me. However, after watching a video about the Betsy OB speaker with the Decware amp, I read the 6moons review that told about "George" putting together a budget system in 2018 that cost about $1000 to $1100.

Is something (approximately) close to that still possible? If I already have my source, can the Betsy speakers and a Decware amp still get in the ballpark of $2000 to $2500 or so? (I think the article I read advocated a Musical Paradise (?) 6.5W amp).

Thanks for any advice you might offer.
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hdrider
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Re: Hello from Memphis...6moons "budget" system?
Reply #1 - 01/13/22 at 12:21:12
 
6sigma - Welcome to the forum. Yes, I would say it certainly is possible to get a Zen amp and Betsy speakers, if you have a source that can drive the amp properly you should be amazed at the sound. It may not reproduce a full pipe organ at realistic volumes but it can create magic depending on your room. Lot's of good advice and opinions here, and some humor. Let us know what comes of this and happy listening, Chris.
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Geno
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Re: Hello from Memphis...6moons "budget" system?
Reply #2 - 01/13/22 at 13:20:36
 
Welcome 6sigma!

I’m about 3 hours south of you - Brandon, MS

If you find yourself in my area, please get in touch and come by for a demo.

Have you ever heard an open baffle setup? It can be a real eye (ear) opener.

For the price range you mentioned, you can get it done. The most economical way to achieve this is Caintuck Audio:

http://www.caintuckaudio.com/

Best,

Geno
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6sigma
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Re: Hello from Memphis...6moons "budget" system?
Reply #3 - 01/13/22 at 16:34:49
 
Geno:

Thanks for the offer. We no longer get down that direction very often, but were often in that area many years back.

After reading more last night & this morning, I'm beginning to think I may go "all in" on a high efficiency, open baffle system with full range capability. The Betsy introduced the concepts, but I'm thinking I might go all the way to the 15". Got to figure the "right" amp for my room (24' x 18' x 10' ceiling).

As for open baffle, I haven't owned one. However, I've listened to Magnepans & other dipoles for many, many years. I'm no bass-head & love the open sound. However, I want to make sure I cover the low end for the recordings that have that content.

Again, many thanks for connecting.

Steve in Memphis
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Geno
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Re: Hello from Memphis...6moons "budget" system?
Reply #4 - 01/13/22 at 17:09:04
 
Steve,

That is a fairly big room. You may need a bit more power than the SE84UFO to fill it properly. Maybe a SE34I.5 would work a bit better, and stay in the price range you mentioned.

As for extra bass, if you feel you need it after auditioning the full rangers unaccompanied, just get either one or two bass baffles to complement the full-rangers. This works seamlessly with a subwoofer amp powering them - a few of us here on the forum are using this configuration.

Good luck,

Geno
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Technics SL-1210MK5 (KAB Mods) w/ Concorde 40 cart
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6sigma
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Re: Hello from Memphis...6moons "budget" system?
Reply #5 - 01/13/22 at 17:28:40
 
Again, many thanks, Geno. I'm still reading about the differences from the 8" Betsy up to the 10" and on to the 15" speakers. Since prices aren't spread dramatically, I'm probably going to go bigger from the start. Once that decision is made, I'll begin to consider my amp options.

I've read enough already to know that I'm going to remove the limits on my budget. That 6moons article just caught my eye because of how inexpensively he was achieving terrific sound. If it only gets better with a multiplier applied to the budget, then that's fine!

Appreciate the help.

SP

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Re: Hello from Memphis...6moons "budget" sys
Reply #6 - 01/13/22 at 19:36:10
 
Steve,

Welcome and glad to see you are considering a open baffle speaker and Decware amplifier.  Virtually all of the Decware amplifiers can drive either the Besty or Lii Audio 15 drivers well. As Geno mentioned, given the size of your room you need to determine combination will work best given your music preferences and desired listening level. Keep in mind that the room is of critical importance to achieving a good listening experience for two channel stereo.

I would encourage you to talk with Randy @ Caintuck and Steve @ Decware to help with your selection. FWIW, I have a pair of Randy's Lii 15 Magnum baffles (1.5" thick barrel shape) which utilize the Lii audio F15 driver in my small 13.5' x 15.5' treated listening room. They are almost full range and produce life like reproduction of live recorded music. The speakers are driven with a Decware ZMA amplifier and CSP3+ preamp both with 25th Anniversary modifications. Why the ZMA - in case I get  less sensitive speakers in the future.

A Zen amplifier and Lii 15 baffle will give you a great sounding system even in a large room, the only question is whether it will achieve the volume levels you desire. Some minimal room treatments with the Zen - Lii Audio F-15 baffles may get you there.

HK

 
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6sigma
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Re: Hello from Memphis...6moons "budget" system?
Reply #7 - 01/13/22 at 22:25:51
 
HK:

I really think you've probably nailed down my starting point. May still have a question or two about which amp, but the Lii15 Magnum looks like a great place to get acquainted with the open baffles.

Thanks for the suggestions.

SP
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Tony
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Re: Hello from Memphis...6moons "budget" sys
Reply #8 - 01/14/22 at 15:55:03
 
Good Morning 6sigma, I am another delighted owner of Caintuck speakers, so I want to add my support this growing list.  

I now have two pairs of Caintuck speakers in two rooms:  Betsy's and Lii Fast 8's.  The Lii Fast 8's sound better to my ear, but the Betsy's are excellent.

What made a big difference for me was the addition of the Caintuck Alpha Bass Baffle.  I highly recommend that option for your consideration.  Also, I went in a bit of a different direction with the Lii "Fast 8's."  I think if you search "Fast 8's," you will find that Steve gives them a thumb's up somewhere in his comments.

Both of these options, Fast 8's and Alpha Bass Baffle, are a bit less expensive than the F-15 drivers, and that may help with giving you more room to work with for the amp.  

It is hard to know which speaker you would like best without hearing them.  Hopefully, it helps when current owners report that they are delighted with their purchase - like me.

Tony
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6sigma
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Re: Hello from Memphis...6moons "budget" system?
Reply #9 - 01/14/22 at 21:16:33
 
Tony:

You've given me more to think about. I've been a little puzzled about the speaker offerings at Decware vs. the ones at Caintuck. I've also seen something that makes me think some people by baffles from Caintuck and speakers from Lii. I've got to figure all this out.

With some remodeling going on at the house, I'm also thinking that your suggestions of the "Lii Fast 8" make some sense for a smaller room we have.

Again, many thanks for your help.

Steve
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Tony
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Re: Hello from Memphis...6moons "budget" system?
Reply #10 - 01/14/22 at 23:43:35
 
I understand.  It's not exactly one-stop shopping for some of these options.
Don't hesitate to ask if you have a question.  Having gone through the decision-making and ordering process, I and others think we understand the process.  Randy, of course, will give you the exact information if you send him an email.
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6sigma
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Re: Hello from Memphis...6moons "budget" system?
Reply #11 - Yesterday at 16:41:23
 
Ok, Saturday morning (where I am). I have 3 questions:

1. Do any of you have a recommended "white paper" or any research about the theory of high sensitivity speakers and the overall benefits of such a setup?

2. Similar question for open baffle speakers. I've been reading (a lot) since "discovering" Decware & Caintuck. However, I've found other open baffle designs that seem to forfeit some sensitivity - likely because they employ a crossover. Are there any good papers about open baffle designs that influenced your choices?

3. Finally, for those of you who replaced a "box speaker" for the Betsy or the F15, do you mind saying what you had previously? I ask this in order to gauge the low midrange and upper bass response. I'm not a bass head, but certain acoustic music certainly benefits from a decent response in the 40-50hz range.

Thanks for the generous answers you have been providing.

SP
Memphis
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Archie
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Re: Hello from Memphis...6moons "budget" system?
Reply #12 - Yesterday at 17:13:57
 
I can address #3.  I replaced HR1s with F15s in the big baffles.  I gave up some deep bass but I gained in filling my space with sound.  Differences in the quality of the sound are far less apparent than the magnitude of the sound.  I would not trade the other way.  The F15s do have a weakness as they seem to resonate a bit with certain bass.  Probably because they spec as resonating at 49Hz.  That is a relatively infrequent issue though.
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Tony
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Re: Hello from Memphis...6moons "budget" system?
Reply #13 - Yesterday at 18:03:20
 
Also, on #3, I had F5 Floorstanding ELAC speakers - an excellent sounding speaker, but sensitivity was too low for Decware amps (most of them.)

That reminds me related to your #1. With the Decware lower watt amps, you need a sensitive speaker - usually around 95 dB.
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Archie
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Re: Hello from Memphis...6moons "budget" system?
Reply #14 - Yesterday at 18:30:10
 
To echo Tony a bit and add that even with the ZMA, high sensitivity speakers in a large space are a must, if you want to really fill that space.  Smaller rooms, not so much.
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Technics 1200G TT w/ Ortofon Jubilee MC cart
ZMC1
ZP3 (25th A Mods)
ZR2 (25th A Mods)
CSP3 (25th A mods)
ZMA (25th A mods)
Homemade Big Betsy Speakers (F15s)
Silver Cabling
DIY Isolation platforms under amps & TT.
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