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A pleasant mistake (Read 305 times)
Mannytheseacow
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A pleasant mistake
01/09/22 at 01:27:14
 
I was working around the house today and needed some tunes. I pulled my Lii F15 OBs out into the center of the room, about 8 ft out from the back wall, and set them on either side of an overstuffed recliner pointed towards the door. I put on Dave Matthews, Live at Red Rocks and went to work. At some point I walked into the adjoining room and could clearly hear the music coming out of each speaker. As I approached the doorway to the listening room, about 1-2 ft from the entry, the sound left the speakers and jumped to the back wall. It was this holographic image of the full stage behind the speakers. Absolutely unbelievable. Itís got me rethinking my room setup, wondering if there is something to the absorption between the speakers and/or the reflections of the listening room walls around the doorway?  For now my listening chair has moved to the other room near the doorway. Smiley
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Dana
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Re: A pleasant mistake
Reply #1 - 01/09/22 at 07:38:23
 
You don't know how happy I am to read this thread. †I've been putting a soft barrier between my speakers because I thought it sounded better but also thought it may have been my imagination. †I thought the sound stage gained depth too.
Thanks for posting.
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Tom Waits:
And the newspapers were fooling,
And the ash-trays have retired
'Cause the piano has been drinking,
The piano has been drinking
The piano has been drinking,
Not me, not me, not me, not me, not me
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DPC
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ec-lec-tic

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Re: A pleasant mistake
Reply #2 - 01/09/22 at 11:59:36
 
We have members here who are diametrically opposed to any type of room treatments.  I get that!

The speakers in my main system that I purchased many years ago have been a love hate relationship forever.  No matter what amps and sources I tried they just did not shine.  At one point I even tried to sell them.  Fortunately all I got were lowball offers.

About a year ago I got serious with room treatments in this room.  Absorbers, diffusers and bass traps covering different frequencies.  These items are nearly all self made.  The diffusers were kits purchased from Decware.

The results of my efforts have been transformative.  Not one of my components in this system will leave this house until I pass!

Anyone interested in this subject need only read Steves white papers to get started.

Dennis
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Lin
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Re: A pleasant mistake
Reply #3 - 01/09/22 at 13:08:48
 
Mannytheseacow wrote on 01/09/22 at 01:27:14:
I pulled my Lii F15 OBs out into the center of the room, about 8 ft out from the back wall, and set them on either side of an overstuffed recliner pointed towards the door.


Curious how far from the front wall were your speakers before?
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Lon
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Re: A pleasant mistake
Reply #4 - 01/09/22 at 15:07:39
 
I haven't necessarily seen anyone here opposed to room treatment. I think in my case and with a few others I've seen it's more that they aren't possible in the sense that you mean. I don't have a dedicated room to listen within, and to keep domestic peace I cannot put up audiophile designed diffusers, absorbers etc. If I could I know the sound would improve; I am forced to improve the sound in other ways.
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Lin
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Re: A pleasant mistake
Reply #5 - 01/09/22 at 15:51:10
 
GIK has some art panels that are nice and may help with waf.

https://www.gikacoustics.com/product-category/hifi-listening-room/
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Mannytheseacow
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Re: A pleasant mistake
Reply #6 - 01/09/22 at 16:04:42
 
Answering Linís question, I typically keep my speakers 2-5 ft from the back wall.
Putting that into context, my main room is 16 x 30, and due to many factors (HVAC, doorways, historical restrictions, etc.) I have to orient my listening space along the long wall, keeping the speakers 10-12 ft from the back wall. Iím lucky that I can have two pairs of tombstones taking up space (the F-15 OBís and a pair of Maggieís) but typical acoustic treatment isnít really an option, but the room has an acoustic panel ceiling, carpet, and large windows covered with acoustic drapes.
Summarizing my dismay yesterday, Iíve always focused on the sound coming from my speakers but never heard them project backwards before. Is this what you all are experiencing with heavy room treatment? Is anyone else using dampening between the speakers like Dana?
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Geno
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Re: A pleasant mistake
Reply #7 - 01/09/22 at 17:05:43
 
Manny, this subject is always the most intriguing (and mysterious) part of audio. So many things affect sound in a room - size of the room, building materials, furnishings and their placement, speaker placement, etc.  It is always apples to oranges when trying to replicate someone elseís setup hoping to get a similar result. (Itís ok if you call me Captain Obvious😑)

Can you please post a few photos of the setup you used to get the great results you got? Iím curious exactly where the chair was in relation to the speakers, and speaker location from all walls, etc. Maybe we can all learn something from your experience.

Thanks,

Geno
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Lii Crystal 10 and W-15 in Open Baffles
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Lon
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Re: A pleasant mistake
Reply #8 - 01/09/22 at 18:06:27
 
Lin wrote on 01/09/22 at 15:51:10:
GIK has some art panels that are nice and may help with waf.

https://www.gikacoustics.com/product-category/hifi-listening-room/

Out of the question for me. I could only do this if I lived alone. I love life with my wife, I'm not going to live without here.
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DPC
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Re: A pleasant mistake
Reply #9 - 01/09/22 at 18:17:29
 
My statement about some members being "diametrically opposed" to room treatments may have been an overstatement.  For that I apologize.

There are many of us who have a significant other that dictate the decor of our listening space. That is the conundrum.

They're are some well respected equipment reviewers out there who have obvious deficiencies in there rooms.

I have spent many years jumping on numerous tweets to try to get better sound.  Lots of dollars wasted with little reward.

I guess my point is that room treatments, done properly can make a huge difference in our listening experience.  In my case there is only one downside.  That is that I find it much harder to get out of this listening chair and do those things that should be done.

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Lin
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Re: A pleasant mistake
Reply #10 - 01/09/22 at 19:26:17
 
Manny,
I assume we are talking about the same wall when you say "back wall", the wall behind the speakers (wall in "front" of me, if I were on the stage I would call it the back wall Smiley ).

Very few of any kind of speakers* have not had stage depth for me and all open baffle speakers should display this, unless they are right against the wall or the front wall is over damped. Huh

I prefer OB speakers to be 5-6 ft from the wall with no treatment behind them (except in certain circumstances).

* some monopole speakers IME project the soundstage forward, i.e. the speakers are at the back of the stage

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Lin
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Re: A pleasant mistake
Reply #11 - 01/09/22 at 19:31:28
 
Lon wrote on 01/09/22 at 18:06:27:
Out of the question for me. I could only do this if I lived alone.


Maybe someone else can benefit from knowing treatments don't have be ugly. Wink
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Lon
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Re: A pleasant mistake
Reply #12 - 01/09/22 at 19:38:39
 
I know. Was just answering as that seemed as if it might have been directed at my response.
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piezoman
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Re: A pleasant mistake
Reply #13 - 01/11/22 at 01:11:20
 
Hey Lon, if you keep whining louder maybe youíll actually convince yourself, as I doubt youíve convinced anyone else, LOL

Brad
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DPC
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Re: A pleasant mistake
Reply #14 - 01/11/22 at 09:46:41
 
Let's look at this subject in a different light.

There is a quartet of some of the finest, accomplished players I have ever herd.  They recorded an album in a truly splendid concert hall in Louisville KY some time ago.  Fast forward to a year or so ago and they preformed essentially the same show in a local university basket ball stadium.

The acoustics were so bad in the room that I wanted to leave after about two numbers.  Had it not been for the young lady with me I would have booked.

This was not the first time that I have had similar experiences.

If the room sucks it matters not how much you spent on your equipment or the modifications to that equipment, the room still sucks!

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Lon
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Re: A pleasant mistake
Reply #15 - 01/11/22 at 11:54:28
 
Point taken. Most listening rooms, treated or untreated, are better than a basketball stadium, much better.

I'm not hung up on the total "holographic" thing, though I do get some of that. . . I know a treated room is a lot better with that aspect of playback. But in my rooms I have worked at it and can get accurate tonal balance and imaging and soundstage depth with my pairs of HR-1 and attention to isolation and power especially, working with the limitations I have. I'm sure others have as well.
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JOMAN
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Re: A pleasant mistake
Reply #16 - 01/13/22 at 13:51:09
 
For everyone compromises are way of life.  Personal circumstances are different from one to another and so one adapts as best as one is able.  One of the biggest compromises that is forced on us in this... hobby... is the recording process.  

I'm not referring to the quality of the recording, instead the way that the session was recorded whether in a studio or live.  Was the recording done using the Blumlein method, mid side method, or ORTF method, was it in a acoustically friendly space????

If holography is one of the goals we are after the recording process is critical.  One can have the best of everything from room treatment to the source components but if it's not in the recording it won't matter.  That is something we have no control over and is a compromise that is forced on us.

That doesn't mean that we shouldn't treat our rooms IF WE CAN.  In fact I'm a strong proponent of that and yet it's a compromise that, like Lon, I have to make because alimony is not an option.

So I do what I can.  I treat the room to the degree that I can, I work with all the components to the degree that I can.  The end result?  When it's in the recording, amazing, and the other benefit... no alimony payments.
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DPC
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Re: A pleasant mistake
Reply #17 - 01/13/22 at 14:22:13
 
Well said Joman.

At this point I normally will not suffer poor recordings.  I have become very fond of streaming music and there are so many choices available to bother with poorly recorded tracks.  That said, I do from time to time play music for the nostalgia aspect.

There are listening rooms that are quite good without further attention.
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