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09/17/21 at 07:57:05 


       


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Profound Observation... (Read 723 times)
Steve Deckert
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Profound Observation...
07/17/21 at 04:06:58
 


As some of you are aware, I have what could be considered the holy grail of DACS, the HOLO AUDIO MAY, Kitsune Edition... and it has been a nearly life changing experience for me. God Bless the man who created it.  He is special.

Without getting into it, the point of tonights post is that your room can be more influential and ultimately more meaningful than even this amazing DAC.

About a year or so ago when I finished my wood shop, with acoustics in the back of my mind the whole time, I chucked a pair of 1970's Sansui speakers in there and a Zen Triode amplifier. The sound was actually better in many ways than the Decware listening room...  in fact I got off on it pretty hard for about a week.

Then it faded. Soon I even gave up on the amp and made a one-off TORII JR in pure triode mode to try to recapture what I thought I head when I first set up the system in this space... the new amp probably puts about about 8 watts. Well, it   gave me some hope and then quickly faded into disappointment and I just lost my love for the sound out in the wood shop more an more as time passed.        

Eventually, I just listened to talk radio. That I could deal with, sonically it didn't suck and like music, didn't leave me aggravated that the sound couldn't be better.

I finally concluded that the old Sansui speakers had developed issues. The caps were probably leaking by now... sounded great after a 40 year nap for about 4 months, then began to fade, and finally tanked the whole deal.

This weekend I put some Tube Tots out there which of course don't even have crossovers and using my IPAD as a source (Roon endpoint) with an Audioquest Dragon USB stick DAC feeding the TORII directly... The sound was overwhelming.  It was so good that it not only competes with the listening room, but in several ways is actually better.

WHAT??? That's impossible... a $300 USB STICK DAC vs. the HOLO AUDIO MAY... I don't think so.

Yes, it's true. You can hear it for yourself during this years DECFEST 2021. How is this happening? Simply the room acoustics up to a certain SPL level are better than they are in the DECWARE listening room, or at least "different" in an equally good way.

This means that a sincere but broke audiophile could put together a system in a good sounding space with a $350 DAC that was as good or better than the holy grail in a different listening space... (amp and speakers the same in both spaces)...

It's a humbling realization and sobering reminder that the MOST advances in sound will always be the room. The room is responsible for 60% of the fidelity of your stereo.

Steve



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Dr3wman
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Re: Profound Observation...
Reply #1 - 07/17/21 at 04:13:33
 
Thanks Steve! That is a great lesson for me as one who is really just beginning this mad journey that is the love of music and audio.
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On the waiting list for Torii MKV. Parks Audio Puffin. Rega P1 with Ortofon 2M Blue. Emotiva T1 towers. Sonos connect.
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maddog07
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Re: Profound Observation...
Reply #2 - 07/21/21 at 15:13:36
 
I've been in the wood shop before, but I didn't really pay attention to the size, shape, acoustic properties, etc.  What makes the wood shop so great acoustically Steve?  Care to elaborate?
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Decware Torii MK3, Wyred4Sound DAC2, Theta Digital Miles, Emotiva XMC-1, Emotiva XPA-5, Aesthetix Calypso, Wyred STP-SE, Martin Logan Vista, Audio Nirvana 12" Alnico's, PS Audio PW P5, Goertz, Kimber, Nordost and DIY wires, PSA pwr cords, Cary SLI-80, DM945's.....
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Steve Deckert
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If the 1st watt
sucks why continue?

Posts: 5184
Re: Profound Observation...
Reply #3 - 07/24/21 at 01:59:26
 
It's a live but well diffused space at 16x24 with a 12 pitch roof.  Since it is a pole barn, the 8 to 9 foot sections of wall flex like a giant panel. They are 1 inch foil back foam with a steel shell. There is 1/2 plywood on the bottom 4 feet creating a 6 inch absorber around the entire room, as well as peg board creating a 1.5 inch absorber also around the whole space. With large floating walls between poles that support nothing, it allows the bass to flex the wall which then passes it straight outside where it gets lost forever. So no bass traps are needed, there is nice sounding bass in the middle of the room and all other places. Because it's a brighter space is has a lower knee point than the listening room does, but I don't listen to it that loud so it's fine.  



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Steve Deckert
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If the 1st watt
sucks why continue?

Posts: 5184
Re: Profound Observation...
Reply #4 - 08/07/21 at 04:52:35
 

The love with the sound in the shop quickly left, within a week or so it stopped being a thrill to listen to and dried out and just lost all density.

I fixed it.

First of all I have to say, if you're not running Zen Styx and instead running something like Silver Kimber Cable from China, you have probably either got a sub or have one on order. I just can't believe how serious the speaker cable and connections are to the overall equation.

I was originally using ZSTYX in the wood shop to power the vintage Sansui's which I also fell out of love with quickly. Sadly the ZSTYX were a couple feet too short for the Tube Tots location, so as I mentioned I used something else.

Tonight I decided to make a fresh pair of ZSTYX the correct lengths, 4 feet on one side, and 16 on the other, (yes you can do that with this cable) and removed the terminations at the amp favoring bare wire shoved through the binding posts on the amplifier. On the other end I used locking banana jacks to make sure they don't vibrate loose.  

The non-locking ones I had on the cable, had gotten so worn and dirty on the ZSTYX I used in the wood shop that I am certain that was why I fell out of love with the Vintage Sansui's.  

Once I got all this hooked back up, I fired up the amp and became mesmerized by the difference in the sound quality. What started all this, was me standing out there today listening to sound that sucked thinking what are people going to think at the fest? Then I started rationalizing... my little brain started thinking it was time to install the 18 inch subwoofer in the floor of the shop, and maybe a ZROCK2 involved in the scene...  yea that would fix it.

No, that would be a giant bandaid on a real problem.  

So now that the problem is fixed,  the density is back and so is the liquidity not to mention transparency.  D, L, T.  The big three that I can't listen without.  And while it would probably take things up a notch to extend the bass below 60Hz with a sub, I've got too many more important things to do before DECFEST.

See how that changed.... went from installing an 18 inch sub in the floor, driven by a TORII MONO with a ZROCK2 to get the sound better, to so low on the priority list I just won't even do it.

This entire change was made with 8 connections and four pieces of wire.  

Please learn from it.  Literally the biggest problem was the connections, but also the wire.  The combination of fixing both is absolutely the difference from hearing the speakers and thinking they're just alright -- to hearing the speakers and thinking you have to have a pair.


Steve
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