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Sold on SE84UFO25 - need help (Read 390 times)
Arthur
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Sold on SE84UFO25 - need help
06/08/21 at 19:10:34
 
Dear Decware fans and Steve Smiley

I have been following the SE84UFO25 forum and I got very excited, so yes, this kind of marketing works well Smiley I decided to buy one, but only if I can get better sound than with my current system.
I would like to give some background on my current system and expectations, and I'm looking for advice on how to best pair the SE84UFO25 with my current gear, and hopefully find the right speakers for it Smiley

I'm pretty new to the audiophile world, started last December with a new system: Rega Elex-R, Rega RP3 turntable, Parasound zdacV2, Dynaudio Emit M20 speakers. It lasted about a month, then I started to look for new speakers, ended up with a pair of second hand Joseph Audio Pulsar 2 Graphene bookshelf speakers. Then I realized my turntable sounded horrible so I bought a Dr. Feickert Venti with a Reed 1-X tonearm and a Hana Umami Red MC cartridge. Of course I needed a new MC pre-amp, went for a Tron Seven tubed, then got as well a Heed Audio Quasar MC+MM, tested back and forth, Tron was better, but I did not like the looks, so I got recently an Icon Audio PS3 MK2 David Shaw edition (awesome). Of course, I had to change my amp as well, so after a lot of research I ended up with a PrimaLuna EVO400i (as I needed the watts for the pulsars). I purchased GIK acoustic panels but still did not reach audio nirvana. I had the speakers on the long wall, firing down the short walls and I was having a lot of standing waves. I rotated the room 90degrees, so now I have my speakers in front of the floor-to-ceiling windows, firing down the long walls, with my couch in the middle of the room, and the sound is pretty amazing.
I also added an Isotek EVO Sigmas power distributor, CrystalSpeak Ultra bi-wiring speaker cables, Crystal Ultra interconnect for the turntable, and a Tellurium Ultra Black IC for the new Lumin D1 DAC.

Now, I really like the sound, and I started to feel a real holographic soundstage, with width, depth, instrument separation, fairly clear bass, except for very low frequencies, so one could say why change? Because I made the mistake along this journey to follow the design of the SE84UFO25, and it fascinated me to the point where I have to try it Cheesy

So my journey continues with testing speakers. as I live in switzerland currently I have limited access, so I tried what I could, first a pair of Piega Coax 311, really impressed me, but the room was still not turned around, so I had similar bass problems as with the Pulsars, but the mids and highs seemed more detailed somehow. This could be also just the novelty, I did not spend too much time with them. After rotating the room I loaned a pair of Tannoy Cheviots, looking for higher sensitivity that could match the SE84UFO25. I liked the Pulsars more, though the Cheviots have an awesome bass, very fast and punchy, powerful, but they did not create the soundstage I have from Pulsars. So I requested another pair of speakers on loan, Klipsch Forte IV, just got them in today. They come much closer to the Pulsar soundstage, amazing highs, well-mannered bass, but I need to spend some more time with them, but the start is very promising!

My room is 9.8' x 13.7' (300cm x 420cm) and 7.9' high.

So the question is, would the Klipsch be a good match if I decide I like them with the PrimaLuna and would the SE84UFO25 bring improvements to the current setup? I also looked at the ZOB with a LII driver, which would be cheaper as I could DIY the baffle and order the LII's, but I'm really worried about the overall compatibility and coherence and bass. I would like to stay away from an additional subwoofer. The benefit of the Klipsch is 5-year warranty, a dealer in the area, and convenience, and I could probably exchange them for the pulsars. The PL EVO400i might replace my Denon for home cinema, though probably an overkill so I might end up selling it, though I dread the fact that I would lose so much cash on it, and it really seems like an awesome amp, based on my limited experience.
I understand that ideally I would go for a DNA2, but given I cannot try it my room it's a huge risk, which I don't know if I could take. I also don't want to be without music for so long, meaning to sell everything, order, then wait 6 months, so the Klipsch would seem like an easier path.
Sorry for the long post, hopefully someone will have the patience to read it Smiley many thanks in advance!
Best,
Arthur
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HockessinKid
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Re: Sold on SE84UFO25 - need help
Reply #1 - 06/09/21 at 01:03:52
 
Arthur,

If you can place your speakers on the floor and 2-3' from the rear wall, I highly encourage you to consider Lii Audio F-15 drivers in an open barrel shaped baffle. Put a couple diffusion panels behind the OB's and you'll be amazed at the sound quality.

You can drive the Lii Audio F-15 with any of Steve's amps. Good luck.

HK
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Nottingham Interspace TT w/ Dynavector 20x2 cart + Modwright PH 9.0X phono pre OR Modwright modded Cambridge CNX V2 streamer/DAC > CSP3-25th mods preamp > ZMA-25th mods amp > PI Audio UberBUSS > Omega SAHO XRS or Caintuck Lii15+ speakers > various cables & tweaks.
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Brian
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Re: Sold on SE84UFO25 - need help
Reply #2 - 06/09/21 at 04:54:39
 
Hello Arthur,
The Klipsch Forte IV have a good choice of efficiency (rated 99dB sensitivity) for the SE84UFO25.  I do not know if the 3 way crossover is a problem for single ended amps. If no one here in the forum addresses that point, ask Steve about it.
Lii's "Reference Speaker" (the one with the 100 dB 10-inch single-driver in the four foot tall cabinet at $2,800 a pair) ought to be perfect for the SE84UFO25 amp, and has no crossovers.

Probably only 2 cents worth of advice, but that is what I think.

Brian
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Steve Deckert
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If the 1st watt
sucks why continue?

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Re: Sold on SE84UFO25 - need help
Reply #3 - 06/09/21 at 05:28:47
 

The crossover is a non-issue as far as it relates to the amplifier. The amplifier doesn't really care about that, it only cares about efficiency.

Is there a magic to listening to a single voice-coil with no crossove?  Certainly if implemented properly the answer is yes. But it is not all that easy to find done right.

As far as the Klipsch goes, it may well be in the running for the most paired speaker brand with the Decware Zen Triode amplifier ever... and the reason is because on a single-ended triode without feedback a Klipsch sounds nothing like a Klipsch. If I have to explain that, I will.

No worries on the pairing mate. You'll be very happy with it, and perhaps it will lead to even simpler things down the road, but the sound will be so good, you will likely loose a lot of the motivation to chase, and instead just listen.

Steve
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kulafu
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Re: Sold on SE84UFO25 - need help
Reply #4 - 06/09/21 at 12:21:41
 
Steve,
Greetings!  As a Klipsch owner, can you shed more light on this:
As far as the Klipsch goes, it may well be in the running for the most paired speaker brand with the Decware Zen Triode amplifier ever... and the reason is because on a single-ended triode without feedback a Klipsch sounds nothing like a Klipsch. If I have to explain that, I will.
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ScottGA
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Re: Sold on SE84UFO25 - need help
Reply #5 - 06/09/21 at 14:06:26
 
Kulafu,
I will be interested in how Steve responds to your asking for him to explain but he might be referring to how Klipsch has a "house sound" that tends to be bright on top, which some find exciting and identify as detailed and extended yet others find it tipped up and fatiguing. Maybe it would be helpful to watch a great comparison that Ron of New Record Day did where he recorded a group of speakers using the Neumann Binaural head to make a great recording of those speakers, which includes the Klipsch Heresy. I need this post before I can link to the Youtube video so I'm sorry there is no link. You can cut and paste this video description though: "Spatial Sapphires, X5s, Concept 500, Klipsch Heresy and Revel's! Binaural Shootout!"

This is also a great introduction to the difference between box speakers and Open Baffle speaker's sound and why proponents of OB swear they will never go back to boxes. The Youtube video must be listened to with headphones to get the correct sound but with them, you can hear not only how the speaker sounds but how it sounds in a room - which is a bit different.  This may also be helpful to the original poster in determining if the Lii F15 OB is right for them or not.

Hope this was helpful
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Martin Logan CLS/Crown CDi100 amp/Audio Research SP9 pre/CAL Aria tube CD/DAC-X6MKII BT/USB/Eminent Technology LFT-11 speakers/AMC 3050 integrated/Gallo Due & Micros surround/HD-600 & AMBEO Smartheadset for binaural recording
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kulafu
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Re: Sold on SE84UFO25 - need help
Reply #6 - 06/09/21 at 14:32:59
 
Thanks.  I am listening to it right now and here is the link:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yUVfZeUEz_w

I think Steve should get a "Randy"!
Bob
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ScottGA
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Re: Sold on SE84UFO25 - need help
Reply #7 - 06/11/21 at 14:45:38
 
I TOTALLY agree that his recording would be next level with his own "Randy" Neumann - LOL.

Any hope of this, Steve? By the way, I have the cheap man's version using the Sennheiser AMBEO Smartheadset that is intended for the iPhone/iWhatever but am successfully using it with my Pixel 4a and a lightning to USB-C adaptor for anyone that is interested in binaural recordings. Amazon has a few left at $80 if you are OK with black.

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Martin Logan CLS/Crown CDi100 amp/Audio Research SP9 pre/CAL Aria tube CD/DAC-X6MKII BT/USB/Eminent Technology LFT-11 speakers/AMC 3050 integrated/Gallo Due & Micros surround/HD-600 & AMBEO Smartheadset for binaural recording
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Arthur
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Re: Sold on SE84UFO25 - need help
Reply #8 - 06/14/21 at 08:22:19
 
hello,
I took some time to listen to the Forte IVs, I really like them, they are not as detailed as the Pulsars but provide more music somehow Smiley I noticed I only listen in triode mode with the Fortes, versus ultralinear with the Pulsars. The soundstage is not as much 3d but rather wide and filling the room. Bass is nice, I can clearly feel they go lower than the pulsars and eliminate some annoying farts Smiley
Now I'm thinking if I should test the Cornwalls as well, apparently, they are being used in small rooms like mine with great success.

Getting back to the speaker selection, I have a budget of 6k (assuming I can sell the Pulsars for that). I could go for the:

1. Forte IV ~6k (European price is higher than US) - benefits are local dealer, 5 years warranty, high sensitivity to go well with the Zen
2. Lii Audio Original: 2.8k+shipping - love the looks, no idea about the sound - this would make a lot of sense financially as I could get them together with the Zen from my budget.
3. DNA2 - 3.8k ~ no idea how they sound or if they would work in my room
4. DYI ZOB with LII ~ no idea how they sound or if they would work in my room. I could position them up to 3 feet from the back wall and 2 feet from the side wall and I do have GIK Basstraps I could put behind.

My listening preference ranges from Jazz, classical, rock, pop and some hip-hop. I have a bunch of Mofi releases, the new tone poet series, Eric Clapton, Pink Floyd, Rolling Stones, Metallica, Santana, Sting, etc.

Which way would you go?
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HockessinKid
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Re: Sold on SE84UFO25 - need help
Reply #9 - 06/14/21 at 11:06:47
 
Arthur,,

Thanks for posting a picture of your room and the dimensions. Given your room size, equipment positioning and rear draped covered window (or sliding glass door) you should choose your speakers carefully.

Specifically, I would suggest you consider concentrating your search on speakers designed for corner placement. Close placement of speakers in corners usually results in enhanced bass (lower frequency) response nodes.

If you like the ForteI V's I'd say stick with them. Maybe spend some time seeking out room treatment options (bass traps in the corners) to tame any bass nodes you may be experiencing. Anyway, that's my two cents.

HK
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Nottingham Interspace TT w/ Dynavector 20x2 cart + Modwright PH 9.0X phono pre OR Modwright modded Cambridge CNX V2 streamer/DAC > CSP3-25th mods preamp > ZMA-25th mods amp > PI Audio UberBUSS > Omega SAHO XRS or Caintuck Lii15+ speakers > various cables & tweaks.
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