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A/B comparison Hi Power vs. Low Power (Read 554 times)
Steve Deckert
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A/B comparison Hi Power vs. Low Power
02/23/21 at 05:54:23
 

Due to the wonder of today's Smart Phones and the fact that they record in stereo and everyone has one...

We now have a common reference.  Anyone can record their speakers from the listening position(s) and post the video on youtube.  Anyone else can then play the same music on their stereo and post their video too. With both videos on Youtube it is then possible to listen through headphones (which takes your room and speakers out of the sound you hear) and get a direct A/B comparison from one system to another!

So Let's try it.  A higher power, multi-driver system with large subwoofer that I thought sounded really good compared to a low power single-driver system with no subwoofer that I also thought sounded really good...

https://youtu.be/Yw8I75hsCAE Link to Video A - the lush high power system.


https://youtu.be/sPhbzlPlOKM Link to video B - the clear low power system.



Smiley

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ovs-audio
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Re: A/B comparison Hi Power vs. Low Power
Reply #1 - 02/23/21 at 06:33:40
 
Okay, I'll take the high-powered set and sell it, to buy the low-powered set and keep the rest of the money in my pocket !
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JBzen
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Re: A/B comparison Hi Power vs. Low Power
Reply #2 - 02/23/21 at 09:34:50
 
Both systems sound so different! I suspect each was recorded differently. The rooms also played a big role in the outcome. Piano sounded very good on the crystals in your room.
Hmmmmm, system videos seem like the ultimate connection where one can display their goods...put your system where your mouth is so to speak!
I wanna play but in the middle of speaker and capacitor upgrades 😕. Soon....

John
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AMC CD8b>XO3>Beldon 1694a coax>Cambridge CXNv2>Sheldon Stokes tube DAC>twisted copper>ZKIT1>Carol silver>lii Crystal 10s in Huijgen cabinets>Ortofon 2M Bronze>ZP3>JVC QL-F4>Sims isolation. DIY Isolation>AC filtering>JR SU-2 balance power. Room treatments.
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JBzen
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Re: A/B comparison Hi Power vs. Low Power
Reply #3 - 02/23/21 at 11:11:55
 
Capacitors arrive today for ZKIT1 25th mods and signal with Miflex copper(just about all that is readily available!) Speakers are a work in progress at the foundation phase.

https://youtu.be/oB1IaRNIEd8

John
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AMC CD8b>XO3>Beldon 1694a coax>Cambridge CXNv2>Sheldon Stokes tube DAC>twisted copper>ZKIT1>Carol silver>lii Crystal 10s in Huijgen cabinets>Ortofon 2M Bronze>ZP3>JVC QL-F4>Sims isolation. DIY Isolation>AC filtering>JR SU-2 balance power. Room treatments.
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Lon
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Re: A/B comparison Hi Power vs. Low Power
Reply #4 - 02/23/21 at 14:18:14
 
Not "everybody has a smart phone"--I don't, don't want or need one. Will be interesting to follow the thread.
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HR-1,ZTPRE,ZBIT,ZROCK2,SE84UFO3-25th x2, CSP3-25th.Taboo Mk IV; Rega RP3 w/25th mods PS Audio: DMP+DSD,P15,NPC,PowerBases,AC-12 pwr cbls, Reference spkr cbls;Mapleshade:Samson V3; Oppo UDP-205; VooDoo:Cremona+Amati intrcncts, Iso-Pods;headphones:PM1,HD800S,ZMF Ori
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piezoman
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Re: A/B comparison Hi Power vs. Low Power
Reply #5 - 02/23/21 at 15:32:22
 
I'll take Steve's system, all day every day.....though his room has acoustic treatment thru the roof. Anyway, the sound is gorgeous!

The other guy has very little room treatment, and its glaringly obvious. My untreated room sounds similar to his.......which is going to get fixed on some level fairly soon.

Steve's wins out in the sensibility dept, the intimacy dept, the emotion dept --- at a much, much lower cost.

Years ago I used to think that ridiculously over the top expensive gear was the answer...until I learned it isn't.

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Taboo MK IV-25th, CSP3-25th Anniv. Ed., ZRock2-25th, ZBIT, Omega Jr. XRS AlNiCo, Omega DeepHemp, Bryston BDA-3/BDP-2, Brick Wall 8, Ansuz Conditioning, IsoAcoustics, Audeze LCD-3F....DSR-II, ZenStyx, Highwire 700LSI, BC Silver XLR, Tara Labs, DHC-1, Acoustics BBQ.
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Archie
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Re: A/B comparison Hi Power vs. Low Power
Reply #6 - 02/23/21 at 17:05:50
 
I was sort of on board with the High Power until the vocals started.  Then, WHAM! Steve's kicked the other to the curb.
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ZLC
Technics 1200G TT w/ Ortofon Jubilee MC cart
ZMC1
ZP3 (25th A Mods)
ZR2 (25th A Mods) -- currently not in use
CSP3 (25th A mods)
ZMA (25th A mods)
Homemade Big Betsy Speakers (F15s)
Silver Cabling
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Lon
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Re: A/B comparison Hi Power vs. Low Power
Reply #7 - 02/23/21 at 17:41:23
 
That's where I fall too. It's been my experience over the last three decades that the lowest power (matched properly with great speakers) produces better sound quality.
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HR-1,ZTPRE,ZBIT,ZROCK2,SE84UFO3-25th x2, CSP3-25th.Taboo Mk IV; Rega RP3 w/25th mods PS Audio: DMP+DSD,P15,NPC,PowerBases,AC-12 pwr cbls, Reference spkr cbls;Mapleshade:Samson V3; Oppo UDP-205; VooDoo:Cremona+Amati intrcncts, Iso-Pods;headphones:PM1,HD800S,ZMF Ori
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piezoman
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Re: A/B comparison Hi Power vs. Low Power
Reply #8 - 02/23/21 at 18:21:12
 
Archie, yeah the vocals were pretty edgy, and there's lots of echo in that chamber. Treatment to the room will likely improve it alot.

Still, the cost factor.......why pay all that $$. Yikes.
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Taboo MK IV-25th, CSP3-25th Anniv. Ed., ZRock2-25th, ZBIT, Omega Jr. XRS AlNiCo, Omega DeepHemp, Bryston BDA-3/BDP-2, Brick Wall 8, Ansuz Conditioning, IsoAcoustics, Audeze LCD-3F....DSR-II, ZenStyx, Highwire 700LSI, BC Silver XLR, Tara Labs, DHC-1, Acoustics BBQ.
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Steve Deckert
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If the 1st watt
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Re: A/B comparison Hi Power vs. Low Power
Reply #9 - 02/23/21 at 18:34:26
 

When I listen to the two videos, yes the vocals and piano are much clearer in my room, however there is a slight etch to them which is expected when not running a preamp, and a modest priced DAC.

This motivated me to fix it.

To fix it, I got a ZROCK2 out and hooked it up.  Problem solved.  Then I thought, why not record the same song one more time, but with a ZROCK2!

Then I decided to make the video with the ZROCK2 ON and OFF a couple times so you could hear the change on the fly.

This of course turned into a ZROCK2 demonstration video.

https://decware.wistia.com/medias/vtgiah2qcv

What makes this a great ZROCK2 demonstration is that there is no bass in the song to speak of.  It is a female vocal track which was a perfect opportunity to show the magical effect a ZROCK2 has on midrange!

-Steve

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Lon
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Re: A/B comparison Hi Power vs. Low Power
Reply #10 - 02/23/21 at 18:42:20
 
The amazing power of the ZROCK2! I just can't be without one any longer. In fact I recently bought another fully loaded one from the forum here just so I could have that in my main system and send back the one I have which reverses channels when by-passed for correction. When that is corrected and returned I can then use the new one in my audio-visual system which does not have the Anniversary Mods, and then move that one into my headphone only system which has my newest ZROCK2 with the standard caps and the tube regulation mod. That one I could then put up for sale. Maybe. Wink

There are so many amazing factors the ZROCK2 brings. No matter the money one spends there really isn't anything else quite like it.

Okay, back to the comparisons. . . .
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HR-1,ZTPRE,ZBIT,ZROCK2,SE84UFO3-25th x2, CSP3-25th.Taboo Mk IV; Rega RP3 w/25th mods PS Audio: DMP+DSD,P15,NPC,PowerBases,AC-12 pwr cbls, Reference spkr cbls;Mapleshade:Samson V3; Oppo UDP-205; VooDoo:Cremona+Amati intrcncts, Iso-Pods;headphones:PM1,HD800S,ZMF Ori
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piezoman
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Re: A/B comparison Hi Power vs. Low Power
Reply #11 - 02/23/21 at 18:43:05
 
ZR2 = HUGE DIFFERENCE!

Night and day.

Pure genius.
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Taboo MK IV-25th, CSP3-25th Anniv. Ed., ZRock2-25th, ZBIT, Omega Jr. XRS AlNiCo, Omega DeepHemp, Bryston BDA-3/BDP-2, Brick Wall 8, Ansuz Conditioning, IsoAcoustics, Audeze LCD-3F....DSR-II, ZenStyx, Highwire 700LSI, BC Silver XLR, Tara Labs, DHC-1, Acoustics BBQ.
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esewell
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Re: A/B comparison Hi Power vs. Low Power
Reply #12 - 02/23/21 at 22:47:57
 
Steve, you have whetted my appetite.  Would you please do a ZROCK2 demonstration with music that includes more bass?  Thank you, Ed
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Archie
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Re: A/B comparison Hi Power vs. Low Power
Reply #13 - 02/24/21 at 00:22:27
 
I'm not picking up the change with/without the ZR2.  But how is the volume being matched so perfectly?  Whenever I play with the ZR2 bypass I have to adjust volume.
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ZLC
Technics 1200G TT w/ Ortofon Jubilee MC cart
ZMC1
ZP3 (25th A Mods)
ZR2 (25th A Mods) -- currently not in use
CSP3 (25th A mods)
ZMA (25th A mods)
Homemade Big Betsy Speakers (F15s)
Silver Cabling
DIY Isolation platforms under amps & TT.
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Steve Deckert
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If the 1st watt
sucks why continue?

Posts: 4911
Re: A/B comparison Hi Power vs. Low Power
Reply #14 - 02/24/21 at 01:54:51
 

Arch, Volume matching segments during the construction of a video is pretty easy.  Also, like most of these speaker videos, they only sound correct with headphones.

Steve



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Archie
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Re: A/B comparison Hi Power vs. Low Power
Reply #15 - 02/24/21 at 02:36:46
 
Oops, my ignorance is showing again!  lol   Smiley
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ZLC
Technics 1200G TT w/ Ortofon Jubilee MC cart
ZMC1
ZP3 (25th A Mods)
ZR2 (25th A Mods) -- currently not in use
CSP3 (25th A mods)
ZMA (25th A mods)
Homemade Big Betsy Speakers (F15s)
Silver Cabling
DIY Isolation platforms under amps & TT.
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Steve Deckert
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If the 1st watt
sucks why continue?

Posts: 4911
Re: A/B comparison Hi Power vs. Low Power
Reply #16 - 02/24/21 at 03:46:12
 
Quote:
Steve, you have whetted my appetite.  Would you please do a ZROCK2 demonstration with music that includes more bass?  Thank you, Ed


Yes, here is another video, but rather than record speakers, I just ran the output of the ZROCK2 into my digital recorder which you can see in the video.  I used some classic rock streamed from Qobuz.  The streamer was a stock Cambridge CXNv2.  It was connected directly to the ZROCK2.

In this video there is a significant difference in gain when you flip the switch just like in real life.

https://decware.wistia.com/medias/pifb52r0ad
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Dominick
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Re: A/B comparison Hi Power vs. Low Power
Reply #17 - 02/24/21 at 04:33:20
 
All I can say is wow!!  “More than a feeling”. has always been a top favorite song of mine.   I decided to run a test and played the video without watching it to see if I could hear the difference.The change was very noticeable and pronounced.

I would love to see another video with Crosby Stills and Nash “”Southern Cross”.  I have done many A/B comparisons of this song off of the “Daylight Again” album streaming through Tidal and Qobuz.  Tidal’s MQA version is flat and lifeless.  Qobuz’s version actually sounds like it was played with a ZROCK 2  running...very lively and punchy.

Dom
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iMac 7 or Google Chromecast Audio, Schiit Bifrost True Multibit DAC, My Audio Cables [MAC] Ultra Silver+ Cables, ZSB, ZSTAGE [Beeswax Caps], DAG Cables, Yamaha THX SS Receiver, Rega P3 Turntable, Velodyne Dual Firing Sub, Decware ERR Radials [Bubbinga Wood].
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Archie
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Re: A/B comparison Hi Power vs. Low Power
Reply #18 - 02/24/21 at 06:45:55
 
This one was very obvious even through my computer speakers.  However, to me it sounds a bit thick with and thin without.  Maybe that's why I don't use the ZR2 with my F15s anymore.  The F15s seem to hit the sweet spot without the ZR2.
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ZLC
Technics 1200G TT w/ Ortofon Jubilee MC cart
ZMC1
ZP3 (25th A Mods)
ZR2 (25th A Mods) -- currently not in use
CSP3 (25th A mods)
ZMA (25th A mods)
Homemade Big Betsy Speakers (F15s)
Silver Cabling
DIY Isolation platforms under amps & TT.
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metropolis7
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Re: A/B comparison Hi Power vs. Low Power
Reply #19 - 02/24/21 at 15:53:06
 

I am no marketing guru, but I play bass. Maybe subtitle the ZROCK the "bass guitar enchancer". That's what really popped-out to me on the A/B comparison, and Boston's MTAF is the epitome of anemic bass guitar in classic rock.
I may need to purchase a ZROCK for the sake of aiding me when learning bass lines.
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JBzen
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Re: A/B comparison Hi Power vs. Low Power
Reply #20 - 02/25/21 at 13:16:03
 
I noticed on all the smart phone recordings a sense of tunnel-vocals. Most likely created from the phone case hole and mic placement inside the phone. The combination of the holes acts like a compressor. Samsung most likely addressed this issue on their end but the case was added and out of their control. The mic on my Galaxy 9 is inbetween the charging port and speakers on the left in the picture below.
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AMC CD8b>XO3>Beldon 1694a coax>Cambridge CXNv2>Sheldon Stokes tube DAC>twisted copper>ZKIT1>Carol silver>lii Crystal 10s in Huijgen cabinets>Ortofon 2M Bronze>ZP3>JVC QL-F4>Sims isolation. DIY Isolation>AC filtering>JR SU-2 balance power. Room treatments.
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Steve Deckert
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If the 1st watt
sucks why continue?

Posts: 4911
Re: A/B comparison Hi Power vs. Low Power
Reply #21 - Yesterday at 03:39:35
 
Always remove the case before recording, every bit helps.
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