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Jupiter Type II caps (Read 4927 times)
Archie
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Jupiter Type II caps
01/01/21 at 20:53:03
 
I got curious about Jupiter beeswax caps and looking around I can't find the "Type II" caps that are now an upgrade here.  Other than the 600V copper foil beeswax caps I'm seeing a 600V Cryo'd aluminum foil beeswax cap but that one costs much less than the former.

Is this a stealth release?  Anyone know what they are compared to the Type I?
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Lon
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Re: Jupiter Type II caps
Reply #1 - 01/01/21 at 21:34:10
 
I think it's possible the copper foil are the "Type 2" and the aluminum foil are the other version Decware offers, "beeswax" or "Type 1."
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Dominick
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Re: Jupiter Type II caps
Reply #2 - 01/01/21 at 22:11:54
 
When I ordered my Torii MKIV, the option page listed the Type II beeswax as an upgrade. It appears as though the Aluminum foil are the Type I which are considered the stock cap.  

The funny thing is that on the SE84UFO25 page, it lists all 4 types of caps.  On the Torii MKIV page they only list the 2 types of caps.  

https://www.decware.com/newsite/SE84UFO25.html

https://www.decware.com/newsite/TORII.htm



Dom
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will
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Re: Jupiter Type II caps
Reply #3 - 01/01/21 at 22:39:58
 
I think that is right Lon and Dom. It is confusing to me, since as far as I can tell, Type I and Type II are Steve's names, not what is otherwise out there. I had to look around the amp pages to remember which was which. The CSP3 page description has good clues, calling the Type I "high resolution," and the Type II "higher resolution."

If you go to a cap seller, the Type I is called HT, and is aluminum, and the Type II is called Copper foil and more costly.

I liked the Coppers quite a lot when I first changed from stock HTs in the Torii IV. The HTs as I recall where really nice there, but by comparison, had more open sizzle in the upper mids/top, contrasting just a little with a slightly dark/thick on bottom to me. Where the Coppers are more solid, bigger througout, including the bottom, more resolving, more balanced overall to me.

But both have that Jupiter "organic" quality that ended up getting to me. I ended up relating it a little too much with a darkish/smooth affect than organic finally, especially with the coppers...finding the big bass a little too soft/big/full, and leaking into the mids a bit much for for my preferences. The top to me is sweet and resolving with smoothness, no complaints there.

But after trying a bunch of other well liked caps, I ended up not preferring the Jupiter balance as much, so much so, that I tried the coppers all over the place as bypasses, and there were several others I liked better, including the HTs, which to me are nice bypasses if you want to open the top. They mix really nicely with bypasses that are a little too warm. But after loads of attempts, the coppers sit in the drawer. That said, without comparisons, and my preferences, I think they are very sophisticated and nice caps, and of course a lot of what makes something great or not, is how well it blends with the rest fo the voicing!

After trying so many, if I had to pick one, it would likely be Miflex Copper Oils. They are to me, just a little less resolving on top than Jupiter coppers, but I am a fine detail lover, and I didn't find them lacking. I did discover a great bypass for them though to bring out the top more. Very low cost Mallory 150, 0.01 caps. Those little things just bring out a little more top very nicely with the Miflex sound here. The Miflex copper oils have a sweetish high quality copper oil tone that is more open and spacious than the Jupiter Coppers, but not as much so as Audyn Coppers, which are really nice in the right setting, but a little chilly/hardish to me compared to Miflex.

To me, the Miflex are more musically balanced than either Jupiter, less forceful and full/darkish than the coppers, and more evenly balanced than the HTs top to bottom, pleasantly open and revealing without being cool. Quite musical to me, they just seem to get it right in a lot of settings for my tastes.

And the small value Miflex caps are quite low cost for the quality! They are often on sale at Soniccraft, where it appears he may have switched from Jupiter to Miflex. I think Jeff is quite picky about the quality he gets from suppliers. I had had some leaking problems with my first batch of Miflex oils, bought from HiFi Collective in the early broader release days. I am able to solve it with glue, but seems they should be a little more solid in this regard. And this is in the heat of amps, they never leaked in speaker applications, and often not in amps. Anyway, Jeff at Soniccraft once told me he had not gotten complaints about leaking from Miflex he had sold....so things must have changed, or he has some magic with the company. They also make a nice Aluminum foil oil cap, and a copper/poly cap.

All that said, if you like the jupiter sound you have now, I bet upgrading to the coppers would be a very nice lift. It was here in the MKIV coupling caps.
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Steve Deckert
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Re: Jupiter Type II caps
Reply #4 - 01/01/21 at 23:24:00
 
Sorry for the confusion... we're in the process of re-writing the entire web site once again, so we will make things a little more consistent.

Type I, (my name for it) is the original HT cap which is aluminum foil.  Type II is the newer copper foil.

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Archie
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Re: Jupiter Type II caps
Reply #5 - 01/01/21 at 23:25:36
 
Thanks for the replies.  For some reason I always thought the standard Jupiter caps were copper but now this all makes sense.  The reason I got thinking at all about this is that I opened up my ZMA and saw that all of the Jupiter caps (Type I) had drips of wax coming off of one end.  I thought I must have fried them and would have to replace them all (about $900 in product for Type IIs!)

Fortunately Steve was answering emails on New Years Eve and he told me that it was normal and that the caps would actually develop an air gap inside and that at this point they really start sounding great!  lol

So I was looking at a blurry picture I took of my ZMA caps when I was looking for the one I posted below showing the wax drips and my Jupiter caps are marked as Copper Foil.  So, now I'm still confused.   Undecided
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IMG_2803a.jpg

ZLC
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Archie
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Re: Jupiter Type II caps
Reply #6 - 01/01/21 at 23:31:31
 
Here is a picture of a Type I Jupiter cap in my ZMA.  Unless Steve changed them all out when he did my Anniversary upgrades (without telling me).  This is a bypass cap so maybe just those are Type II?
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IMG_2802crop.JPG

ZLC
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Archie
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Re: Jupiter Type II caps
Reply #7 - 01/02/21 at 00:10:21
 
I just opened my CSP3 which is also Anniversary modified and all of those Jupiter caps are HT caps.  The ZMA is too hard to get into so until I need to again, I'll just live with the mystery of whether all or just some of those caps are copper.  But at least now I know the difference between Type I and Type II.
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ZLC
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will
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Re: Jupiter Type II caps
Reply #8 - 01/02/21 at 00:36:26
 
Not sure Archie, not being able to see the markings on most the caps in your picture, but Steve may have chosen to mix the HTs and Coppers in your ZMA bypass modifications.

In my CSP3, one of the first 3s, the coupling caps were HTs. They have always leaked a bit, and I got the same answer from Steve. I love the beeswax smell when I open it up. I tried quite a few bypasses on these HTs over the years, seeking a little more punch, solidity, and resolution/clarity  from the CSP3, and finally arrived at 0.022 Miflex copper oils, and Mallory 150 .0047s bypassing the HT coupling caps. Beautiful!
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Archie
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Re: Jupiter Type II caps
Reply #9 - 01/02/21 at 01:09:41
 
The caps in my CSP3 haven't leaked at all.  The ZMA gets hot but what got me looking inside my ZMA was that I had a severe brain cramp and over heated it.  I damaged some plastic on the meters and I was inside trying to fix that when I saw the beeswax drips.  I assumed I'd fried the caps but fortunately, that doesn't seem to be the case.  However, I have a well burned in ZMA!

I wonder if Steve ran out of the Type I caps or felt the IIs would do better with all or part of the bypass mods?
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ZLC
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Steve Deckert
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Re: Jupiter Type II caps
Reply #10 - 01/02/21 at 02:49:18
 
All ZMA are built with Copper Foil caps in the signal path.  The bypass mods are a combination of both.

Steve
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Archie
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Re: Jupiter Type II caps
Reply #11 - 01/02/21 at 07:27:06
 
Cool!  Learn something new every day.   Smiley
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