Forums - Tube life

Archie

Seasoned Member

Posts: 2731

Tube life
07/26/20 at 22:13:17

About 14 months ago I bought some NOS Tungsram PCC88 tubes and put them into my CSP3 and ZMA. A couple months ago I had one go bad in my CSP3 and now I'm hearing an issue (tube rush/noise) with one in my ZMA. If I had to guess I'd say these have in the 1000 hr range of "amp on" time on them. Does this seem typical? I remember Steve saying that the tubes he supplied with the ZMA should last in the 10,000 hr range. I'm thinking it may just be Tungsrams as I don't recall issues with NOS Russian military tubes (6N1P-EV) that I've used.

Back to top

ZLC
Technics 1200G TT w/ Ortofon Jubilee MC cart
ZMC1
ZP3 (25th A Mods)
ZR2 (25th A Mods)
CSP3 (25th A mods)
ZMA (25th A mods)
Homemade Big Betsy Speakers (F15s)
Silver Cabling
DIY Isolation platforms under amps & TT.

IP Logged

Lon Seasoned Member "Love without guts is worthless!" Philip K. Dick Posts: 25750	Re: Tube life Reply #1 - 07/26/20 at 22:35:33 That's not at all typical, nor should these have such a short life.
Back to top	HR-1,ZBIT,ZROCK3,SEWE300B,CSP3-25mod; Rega RP3 all GrooveTracer mods;PSAudio:PST+DSD, DAC Mk II, P15,NPC,PowerBases,AC-12 pwr cbls, Reference spkrcbls; Mapleshade SamsonV3; VooDoo:Cremona+Amati interconnects;Stack EQ; headphones: Sennheiser HD800S,ZMF Ori,Oppo PM1 IP Logged

Archie Seasoned Member Posts: 2731	Re: Tube life Reply #2 - 07/26/20 at 23:14:40 Hopefully they are outliers. But so far 2 of six in a year.
Back to top	ZLC Technics 1200G TT w/ Ortofon Jubilee MC cart ZMC1 ZP3 (25th A Mods) ZR2 (25th A Mods) CSP3 (25th A mods) ZMA (25th A mods) Homemade Big Betsy Speakers (F15s) Silver Cabling DIY Isolation platforms under amps & TT. IP Logged

MrDerrick

Seasoned Member

May The Source Be
With You!

Posts: 180

Re: Tube life
Reply #3 - 07/27/20 at 01:03:02

Do you have any means to test the tubes that you received or the tubes that went bad?

Not to debate Steve, he knows tubes, but I have never had a tube that sounded "good" at 10,000 hours. But that is more than likely do to how hard the tube is used and or driven

They may still function at that hour mark, but I find that 5K is about max sound quality wise. Your brain adjusts to the sound over the decline and until things get really bad, sound wise, it can be hard to detect.

They can still test strong at 5K, but they do not sound as good as fresh tubes.

Personally, I think that these are what most of the "NOS" tubes being sold are.

And except for tubes that get noisy or gassy, I call that mechanical failure vs electrical failure, that can happen at any time to any tube.

Back to top

1.4/1.5 MHz 20 Bit PCM Qobuz or SSD
HQPE - sonicTransporter i9
HQP Client - i3 Tablet
HQP NAA - Sonore Sig Series Rendu
USB > Holo KTE May > SA1X/47 > ZBIT > ZSTAGE25 > SE84UFO25
Avantgarde Duo Omega & Townshend Super Tweeters
IsoMax > Rives Parc > SUB225s

IP Logged

Archie

Seasoned Member

Posts: 2731

Re: Tube life
Reply #4 - 07/27/20 at 01:32:24

I can't readily test tubes. The tubes I bought were NOS (never used) as far as I can tell. I push my output tubes hard in my ZMA but I don't know if that affects the input tubes. My use estimate might be off by a factor of 2 but I certainly don't have 5000 hrs on these tubes. I do think the Russian military tubes last longer in any case.

My life question is really academic since I'll use the Tungsrams until they go bad regardless -- I have 8 or 10 in back-stock. When they go I'll go back to the 6N1P-EVs. They are a nice tube, just not quite as good as the Tungsram.

Back to top

ZLC
Technics 1200G TT w/ Ortofon Jubilee MC cart
ZMC1
ZP3 (25th A Mods)
ZR2 (25th A Mods)
CSP3 (25th A mods)
ZMA (25th A mods)
Homemade Big Betsy Speakers (F15s)
Silver Cabling
DIY Isolation platforms under amps & TT.

IP Logged

MrDerrick Seasoned Member May The Source Be With You! Posts: 180	Re: Tube life Reply #5 - 07/27/20 at 01:57:10 I will add that unfortunately, the tubes that I generally find to be the best sounding, always seem to have the shortest life span.
Back to top	1.4/1.5 MHz 20 Bit PCM Qobuz or SSD HQPE - sonicTransporter i9 HQP Client - i3 Tablet HQP NAA - Sonore Sig Series Rendu USB > Holo KTE May > SA1X/47 > ZBIT > ZSTAGE25 > SE84UFO25 Avantgarde Duo Omega & Townshend Super Tweeters IsoMax > Rives Parc > SUB225s IP Logged

Lon Seasoned Member "Love without guts is worthless!" Philip K. Dick Posts: 25750	Re: Tube life Reply #6 - 07/27/20 at 02:15:38 I guess I've been lucky as I haven't found that to be the case! Maybe feeding them clean power helps as I have a regenerator in each system. But I have had Amperex 7308, and 6N5P from Steve, that have been giving me trouble free long life. These are my favorite input tubes. I get scary long life out of rectifiers and power tubes too.
Back to top	HR-1,ZBIT,ZROCK3,SEWE300B,CSP3-25mod; Rega RP3 all GrooveTracer mods;PSAudio:PST+DSD, DAC Mk II, P15,NPC,PowerBases,AC-12 pwr cbls, Reference spkrcbls; Mapleshade SamsonV3; VooDoo:Cremona+Amati interconnects;Stack EQ; headphones: Sennheiser HD800S,ZMF Ori,Oppo PM1 IP Logged

Archie Seasoned Member Posts: 2731	Re: Tube life Reply #7 - 07/27/20 at 17:00:19 I did notice the recent thread on soft start technology and possible extended tube life. I don't know if this goes for all the tubes in our amps but the sudden rush of full voltage seems to hurt tube life. I would think that the various capacitors might soften the blow though.
Back to top	ZLC Technics 1200G TT w/ Ortofon Jubilee MC cart ZMC1 ZP3 (25th A Mods) ZR2 (25th A Mods) CSP3 (25th A mods) ZMA (25th A mods) Homemade Big Betsy Speakers (F15s) Silver Cabling DIY Isolation platforms under amps & TT. IP Logged

piezoman Ex Member	Re: Tube life Reply #8 - 07/27/20 at 22:07:42 Arch, that thread you referred to seems interesting, but I worry that addi g another component in the chain might contribute to noise. But maybe not [?] I think that as far as a rectifier goes, a directly heated one vs. indirectly heated is a salient point.
Back to top	IP Logged

Archie Seasoned Member Posts: 2731	Re: Tube life Reply #9 - 07/27/20 at 23:01:03 Not sure since it's on the power end but I agree with Lon that clean power helps. I don't have what he has but I think the ZLC is a good component.
Back to top	ZLC Technics 1200G TT w/ Ortofon Jubilee MC cart ZMC1 ZP3 (25th A Mods) ZR2 (25th A Mods) CSP3 (25th A mods) ZMA (25th A mods) Homemade Big Betsy Speakers (F15s) Silver Cabling DIY Isolation platforms under amps & TT. IP Logged

Lon

Seasoned Member

"Love without
guts is
worthless!"
Philip K. Dick

Posts: 25750

Re: Tube life
Reply #10 - 07/27/20 at 23:51:59

The ZLC IS a good product, does clean up the power. It took a regenerator to replace one for me. Still have it, just am not using it now.

Also I have often used 5V4 rectifiers, and have a pair in my audio/video system again now. These have a slow start feature I believe. . . easier on the tubes. With the right complement of tubes these can sound great too.

Back to top

HR-1,ZBIT,ZROCK3,SEWE300B,CSP3-25mod; Rega RP3 all GrooveTracer mods;PSAudio:PST+DSD, DAC Mk II, P15,NPC,PowerBases,AC-12 pwr cbls, Reference spkrcbls; Mapleshade SamsonV3; VooDoo:Cremona+Amati interconnects;Stack EQ; headphones: Sennheiser HD800S,ZMF Ori,Oppo PM1

IP Logged

paugaultierch Verified Member Posts: 3	Re: Tube life Reply #11 - 09/10/20 at 05:23:27 Not sure since it's on the power end but I agree with Lon that clean power helps. I don't have what he has but I think the ZLC is a good component.
Back to top	IP Logged