Hello

Just waiting for a pair of Telefunken EL83 tubes. Got those from Tubeworldexpress. They advertise them as 6p15p replacement... did someone tried them before? Would the Hazen mod work with those?
I have 6p15 and Tesla 6922 installed now and is great sounding already...

Thanks

https://tubeworldexpress.com/products/copy-of-el83-cv2726-siemens-east-germany-n...
os-1-pair-matched-on-amplitrex?_pos=3&_sid=ec813b822&_ss=r



Here is the link...

Quote from  the store website:

1 pair) EL83 Telefunken Diamond Bottom NOS 1965

1 tube) 36.8ma Gm=10,400 B3205201

1 tube) 37.0ma Gm=10,700 B8105501



- matched on Amplitrex



6CK6=EL83 Pentode (sub for Russian 6P15P-EV)



- Decware EL83 amp 1999
- modified VOX AC30

Afraid to try now...

Eh... 50 bucks gone...  ;)

Interesting. This is the first time I've seen anyone say an EL83 is not equivalent to a 6P15P. Pretty much the rest of the world thinks  they are equivalent. Just as 6P14 is equivalent to EL84.

CAJames, that "world" is confined to several ebay vendors who did zero research and who are lazy and copied from each other.

Installed the 2 EL83’,flipped power switch,,nothing for longer than usual,antennas went up,noticed the back voltage regulators start up and went nuclear meltdown red,off button sndpulled the ac..amp actually sounded better from that day on...hmmm a proper breakin.lol.

My Decware user manual says they are the same thing. SV83 is just the American designation for 6p15p

Yes, SV83 is the same thing as 6P15P, but EL83 is not. I think the "83" nomenclature has led to the confusion.

Yes. I’m a big fan of the EL83, but have since moved on to the EL822 (also needs adapters) which I like even better.

Hey Tony, HNY 2U2.

So there are two different tubes, the EL822 and EL821 that are essentially the same except the 822 is "full sized" i.e. same size as a 6P15P/EL84 and the EL821 is a little shorter. The 6CH6 is the US designation for the EL821. I started with 821 because it was cheaper, liked it a lot so I got 822s and like them even better (but the difference is small). Also, because they are bigger I feel like they are likely to be more reliable/longer lasting.

Either way on ebay you can search for "6CH6 EL84 adapter" for what you need.

If you pursue this I'm very interested in your experience.

I wouldn't worry about finding "matched" EL822s, all the ones I have test very close. They are really high quality tubes. I recommend these:

https://www.ebay.com/itm/261205129474

Hey Dom,

Quote:


The ebay link is the ebay store for Langrex:

https://www.langrex.co.uk/products/el822cv2382-mullard-valve-tube-new/

If you're only comfortable buying "matched" pairs you can get "matched" EL821s here:

https://www.ebay.com/itm/280473488039

or here:

https://www.langrex.co.uk/products/el821-cv2127-6ch6-mullard-matched-pair-nos/

That might be a good way to dip your toe in the pool.

You can buy from the webstore if you want, but ebay is cheaper on shipping.


Some other options are Mullard Magic:

https://mullard.org/search?type=product&q=el822

And Billington (my favorite place to buy tubes):

http://www.tube-and-valve-electronics.co.uk/aboutus.asp

but buying from them is a bit of a production.

Quote:



Unfortunately for you "tube matching" is a bit of a hobby horse for me so you're going to get my rant on that, later.

The short answer no, I don't hear any channel difference. But of course I have 2 amps in kind of a funky room so I have 4 power tubes and two input tubes and I'm pretty sure whatever tube differences there are tend to average out and I need to tweak the speaker placement anyway to get the best imaging. Speaker tweaking is an underrated solution to any balance problem in general IMO.

A little longer answer is I've had tubes for a long time and my experience is tubes need to be pretty bad before you can actually hear a difference in channel balance. My advice is if you want to try different power tubes for your UFO I wouldn't hesitate to buy a pair of tubes for Langrex and see what you think. I've tried lots of different 6P15P tubes , a few EL84/6P14P types. Several different EL83 tubes (with my custom made adapters that maintain the Hazen grid mod), and EL822/821s. Of all of these I think the EL822/821 sound the most different, in a good way, from the Decware stock tubes, but to be fair, I'm in the minority that anything sounds better than the Decware stock tubes, except for the Cryotone tubes and those are too much for my Scottish Heritage. Just be sure to give them plenty of time to burn in, at least 30 hours. Most of mine sounded pretty rough out of the box.

Now comes my rant about tube "matching" which you are free to ignore .

I feel like most of what people call tube matching on the internet is a bit of scam, because most tube testers are designed to tell if tubes are bad, not if they are matched (or good). The engineers at Hickok, HP et. al. needed to pick one operating point from the whole phase space of possible currents and voltages to test at to determine if the tube needs to be replaced. That is a nearly impossible problem though by and large they have done a remarkable job solving it. Is that operating point anywhere near the operating point in your amp? Who knows, but probably not. And what does vendor XYZ think "matched" actually means, 5%? 10%, 20%? again who knows. I've had a tube tester for a long time, and tested a lot of tubes, and at first I would totally geek out over "matching" but the more tubes I tested the less I found any real correlation between test results and audio performance. I still test tubes, to be sure they don't have shorts and to confirm I'm getting what I paid for, and I still note the Gm value, because why not, but to me consistent Gm values between tubes is more a sign of manufacturing quality then quantitative matching, although well made tubes will all preform the same. And this whole discussion assumes your tube tester is properly calibrated, which is a whole other issue.


Now, some places, like Decware, have much more sophisticated tube testers that can test tubes over a variety of operating points and can actually match tubes. But that is the exception, and by a wide margin. My feeling is tube matching is important for push pull amps, but of course Decware amps have meters and adjustment pots so you can match mismatched tubes within reason. Single ended amps are a lot more forgiving. I don't stress out over tube matching, but if that is important to you buy your tubes from Steve cuz his matched tubes are really matched.

This ends my rant, I'm very interested in what you think if/when you get some of these tubes.

Thanks Geno, and Happy New Year to you!

AFAIK there is only one ebay seller, tubemalls, that makes the adapter. And they claim they only have 4 left so maybe you should hurry!

Good luck, and let me know what you think.

Cjames : is the adapter for UFO is the same for both 822 & 821 ?

I know shipping from Europe has been a bit of a mess lately but I'm curious if any of you have received your EL822 tubes yet and what you think of them?

I did, too.  

I will get back to you with overall impressions later, as I got sidetracked over the past few weeks with my Torii MKIV and CSP 2+.  The EL822s are playing right now, as a matter of fact, in the SE84UFO - sounding very good.  I wanted to compare them to my 6p15p cryo and non-cryo tubes.

Some of us discussed the EL822 power tube a couple of weeks ago. Since my Torii amp was back at Decware for a change of oil and lube, I had more time with my SE84UFO amp. An excellent time to compare some power tubes I had accumulated.

I set out to listen to OTK 6P15P EB (the original ones from Decware), CryoTone 6P15P, EL822, and CryoTone EL84. I quickly found that too ambitious for one evening, so I spaced it out over four evenings, comparing only two contenders simultaneously.  

First, all four pairs of power tubes sound great. I would feel satisfied with any of them if I had to make just one choice. That said, I did settle on favorites. Each evening I would mix the contenders and spend about 20 minutes with each listening to the same reference tracks. From that, the 6P15Ps fell into one camp, and the others fell into another.  

The 6P15Ps tubes (Decware originals and CryoTone) were very similar.
I really could not tell much difference between the two. In my system, both pairs excelled with female vocals and bass. On one track, I found the CryoTones lacked the density of the OTKs, but overall very similar.  

I preferred the other two power tubes: EL822 and CryoTone EL84. I was initially surprised by the brightness of the EL822 compared to the more laid-back EL84, but it grew on me. They might sound less forward with more hours to settle in. If you factor in price, these have to be the best buy. However, my final choice based only on sound quality was the CryoTone EL84.

Interesting, Tony. I’ll have to give the el83 and el84 from cryotone a try. When I put some of my NOS tubes in after a cryotone tube I don’t notice too big of a difference but when I put cryos in after NOS I’m always blown away.
Lon is right though, our systems, preferences, hearing, and music selection has a lot to do with this.

In my case I put about 100 hours or more on both those types . . . and it was not an improvement that mattered.

I can't do without the Hazen Grid Mod now. Too many years listening to it and into the music in that special way with it.

Tony,

I believe this is Steve's paper about the Hazen Grid Modification.

https://www.decware.com/newsite/paper145.htm

Tony…give the 822’s more time.  I noticed that they settled in nicely after like 30 or 40 hours.  The brightness you are hearing will go away.  I’ve been doing a lot of playing the past few days, so could be close to 60 hours now, and I do like them a lot.  Still need to do some serious listening of female vocals… I’ll probably spend some time tomorrow or the day after.    

The first female up will be Claire Teal’s “California Dreaming “ from Orsino’s Songs on Qobuz.  The opening is just phenomenal.  Then I’ll do Melody Gardot’s “Worrisome Heart” ..great smokey jazz blues night club type song (Qobuz).  

Like others have said…each person’s system and setup is going to be different.  Cables, wires, interconnects, etc. etc. will play a part in this… but I’m sure you know this.  Keep us posted once your tubes settle in.

Dom