Welcome, Guest. Please Login or Register
Decware Audio Forums
03/29/24 at 00:22:49 




Pages: 1
Send Topic Print
Tube to Diode adaptor for Zen Products? (Read 11401 times)
litefootdan
Seasoned Member
****




Posts: 172
Tube to Diode adaptor for Zen Products?
05/05/20 at 03:33:38
 
Hi Zen Community.  I've really been enjoying the tube rolling experience with my SE84UFO25 as well as my TORII MKIV.  One of the areas I have noticed unexpected benefits is the rectifier tube.  It prompted me to start asking almost all the audio people I run across what sorts of rectifiers they have.  A gentleman I met on facebook (of all places) and I were discussing the Type 80/5U4/5AR4 pros and cons and he asked me if I'd ever considered using diode rectification.  I really hadn't.  It got me thinking.  Has anyone here had experience using diode rectification on their TORII amplifier?  I'm asking specifically about that amp because buying pairs of those rectifiers can be kinda spendy and I'd like to do a bit of research.  Also, has anyone tried using Type 80's in their TORII?  What were your opinions?  Any info you might be able to share is very welcomed and as always thanks so much for the community support.  I hope everyone is doing well in these strange times....  Happy Listening!!
Back to top
 
 

Ortofon 2M Bronze | Merrillized AR "The Turntable" | ZP 2 | SE84UFO25 | HDT | Jensen Alnico 15's on the low "OB"
  IP Logged
maddog07
Seasoned Member
****


seeker of truth

Posts: 585
Re: Tube to Diode adaptor for Zen Products?
Reply #1 - 05/06/20 at 18:48:02
 
I did a little rolling of rectifiers a while back(2-3 years) and landed on NOS RCA 5U4G-ST (coke bottle) rectifiers as my favs.  So I went on a spree and bought up a lifetime supply of them - they tend to last a long time. I've found the rectifier to be more of a fine tuning tool, with not near as much impact on the sound as an input or output tube.  I just went out and looked for some today...my, my... they have "appreciated" in value.  I don't think I paid more than $25 for one back when I was buying them up.

Schiit Audio used to sell a "solid state" device that plugged into the tube sockets of their tube products.  They called them "LYST".  They were not for rectification though.  Only for small signal input tubes.  I don't see them on their site anymore today - apparently they no longer offer them.

So to answer your question... I have never had a solid-state, plug in to the tube socket device, that replaced the tube rectifier.  But, like you, I am curious if there are folks that have...
Back to top
 
 

Decware Torii MK3, Wyred4Sound DAC2, Theta Digital Miles, Emotiva XMC-1, Emotiva XPA-5, Aesthetix Calypso, Wyred STP-SE, Martin Logan Vista, Audio Nirvana 12" Alnico's, PS Audio PW P5, Goertz, Kimber, Nordost and DIY wires, PSA pwr cords, Cary SLI-80, DM945's.....
  IP Logged
Morga1n
Verified Member
**




Posts: 3
Re: Tube to Diode adaptor for Zen Products?
Reply #2 - 05/26/20 at 10:48:57
 
A very elegant and attractive product.
Back to top
 
 
  IP Logged
Melusiocx
Verified Member
**




Posts: 1
Re: Tube to Diode adaptor for Zen Products?
Reply #3 - 07/28/20 at 05:32:49
 
They called them "LYST".  They were not for rectification though.  Only for small signal input tubes.  I don't see them on their site anymore today - apparently they no longer offer them.
Back to top
 
 
  IP Logged
CAJames
Seasoned Member
****


"I've run every
red light on memory
lane."

Posts: 1590
Re: Tube to Diode adaptor for Zen Products?
Reply #4 - 07/28/20 at 16:01:54
 
If you google "solid state rectifier" it is easy to find a drop in replacement for a 5U4/5AR4/5Y3 etc. They work great in all the ways that solid state electronics work great. But to me, if you have a fine tube amp, looking for a solid state rectifier is exactly like looking for a transistor replacement for your power tubes.
Back to top
 
 

[FOOBAR2000 | Jay's CDT2 MRK3] -> Denafrips Terminator 2 + Gaia
Sumiko Pearwood -> Mapleknoll Athena -> Luxman SUT -> Maple-tree Phono 3E
Woo WA22 -> 2x UFO25s, balanced monos
Omega SAM , Hifiman Arya, Senn HD-650
  IP Logged
ArtMan
Seasoned Member
****




Posts: 167
Re: Tube to Diode adaptor for Zen Products?
Reply #5 - 07/28/20 at 21:12:59
 
Back to top
 
 

Acer Laptop, Curious USB cable, Holo Audio May L2 DAC, ZRock 2, SE84UFO25, Fast 15 Network, Caintuck Audio Fast 15, Decware DSR3S/DHC2/ZFOCUS cables, Swiss Digital Fuse Boxes, Cryotone tubes (5AR4-WC, EL84-WC X 2, ECC88-WC, 0A3-WC X 2, 0D3-WC, 12AU7-WCL)
  IP Logged
Lon
Seasoned Member
****


"Love without
guts is
worthless!"
Philip K. Dick

Posts: 23310
Re: Tube to Diode adaptor for Zen Products?
Reply #6 - 07/28/20 at 21:19:43
 
CAJames wrote on 07/28/20 at 16:01:54:
If you google "solid state rectifier" it is easy to find a drop in replacement for a 5U4/5AR4/5Y3 etc. They work great in all the ways that solid state electronics work great. But to me, if you have a fine tube amp, looking for a solid state rectifier is exactly like looking for a transistor replacement for your power tubes.

I'm not in total agreement with this. Steve uses solid state rectification in several products and they are very wonderfully voiced and to be honest I'm happy that they don't offer me wormholes to travel down with handfuls of rectifiers. . . he chose the right specs and the sound is delicious.
Back to top
 
 

HR-1,ZTPRE,ZBIT,ZROCK2,SEWE300B,CSP3-25mod,Taboo MkIV;Rega RP3 all GrooveTracer mods;PSAudio:PST+DSD,P15,NPC,PowerBases,AC-12 pwr cbls,Reference spkrcbls;Mapleshade SamsonV3;VooDoo:Cremona+Amati interconnects, IsoPods; headphones:Sennheiser HD800S,ZMF Ori,Oppo PM1
  IP Logged
CAJames
Seasoned Member
****


"I've run every
red light on memory
lane."

Posts: 1590
Re: Tube to Diode adaptor for Zen Products?
Reply #7 - 07/28/20 at 21:58:53
 
Steve uses solid state rectification in several products and they are very wonderfully voiced and to be honest I'm happy that they don't offer me wormholes to travel down with handfuls of rectifiers. . . he chose the right specs and the sound is delicious.

Yes, to be clear I too have have tube gear with a solid state power supply and it sounds fabulous. I'm not saying solid state is bad or has no place around tubes. But that is different than if your power supply was designed with a rectifier tube and you want to replace the tube with a solid state version. This is of course JMO.

Back to top
 
 

[FOOBAR2000 | Jay's CDT2 MRK3] -> Denafrips Terminator 2 + Gaia
Sumiko Pearwood -> Mapleknoll Athena -> Luxman SUT -> Maple-tree Phono 3E
Woo WA22 -> 2x UFO25s, balanced monos
Omega SAM , Hifiman Arya, Senn HD-650
  IP Logged
Lon
Seasoned Member
****


"Love without
guts is
worthless!"
Philip K. Dick

Posts: 23310
Re: Tube to Diode adaptor for Zen Products?
Reply #8 - 07/29/20 at 00:25:32
 
Cool, I don't disagree, but that wasn't exactly how your post was worded and I wanted to add that qualifier.
Back to top
 
 

HR-1,ZTPRE,ZBIT,ZROCK2,SEWE300B,CSP3-25mod,Taboo MkIV;Rega RP3 all GrooveTracer mods;PSAudio:PST+DSD,P15,NPC,PowerBases,AC-12 pwr cbls,Reference spkrcbls;Mapleshade SamsonV3;VooDoo:Cremona+Amati interconnects, IsoPods; headphones:Sennheiser HD800S,ZMF Ori,Oppo PM1
  IP Logged
suntswengjv
Verified Member
**




Posts: 1
Re: Tube to Diode adaptor for Zen Products?
Reply #9 - 08/18/20 at 06:45:23
 
I've found the rectifier to be more of a fine tuning tool, with not near as much impact on the sound as an input or output tube.  I just went out and looked for some today...my, my... they have "appreciated" in value.  I don't think I paid more than $25 for one back when I was buying them up.
Back to top
 
 
  IP Logged
will
Seasoned Member
****




Posts: 2914
Re: Tube to Diode adaptor for Zen Products?
Reply #10 - 08/18/20 at 20:14:27
 
Seems maybe it depends on a lot on the many variables that add up to our sound.

My system/room is pretty seriously tuned and revealing... but I can hear rectifier changes in a big way here, some perhaps closer to "fine-tuning," but many changing the sound seriously.

Relative to rectifiers, in my Torii power supply I had Jenson electrolytic 40 uF caps. Originally 47 uF, I decided to try to see if the lower value caps would shift the balance a little away from bass/thickness/density. Also, loving many Euro 4 volt 1.1 amp rectifiers (stock Valve Art 274Bs that came with my amp are 5 volts and 2.5 amps), between the lower cap value, and the lower rectifier power, I suspect this was why I could edge a little close to distortion on hard notes in louder, serious listening. With 5 volt rectifiers, I was pretty good.

Having some Clarity TC 45 uF film caps to check out for years, I finally got around to trying them. A barrier for me was that they are pretty big caps, not easily fitting anywhere here, but there is more extra room in the Torii than the originally intended CSP3.

I decided to replace 2 of the 8 Jensons in the Torii, the pair that works with the input transformers/rectifiers and the chokes. After all, this is pretty much the beginning of the power for the amp, so I figured the film change there might be most clear and fundamental to the overall sound if it worked. Also, more value, as well as being conceptually clearer/faster film caps, I figured the Claritys might solve dipping into distortion on hard notes at times. And having made some cap changes in my HR-1 speakers lately as well, I figured it was a good time for some tube tuning exploration as the pre-burned-in caps finish burnin with music.

Mostly I have been exploring rectifiers in the CSP3, and to me, all are notable, but many of them change the sound quite notably... spaciousness, darkness, bass/high balance, density, mid balance, fine detail effects with textures, ambient info, air, etc, warmth ....everything.

Actually, as I think about it, before doing modifications to increase resolution musically, I was still doing that with tubes, cables, DACs, vibration management, power, etc, so rectifiers have always really mattered to me. Pulling space and fine detail, with balance top to bottom, all aspects of the presentation have always gotten better with detail and spacial refinement to me. So this setup reveals a lot of information, I guess helping to explain why I hear rectifiers about as much as other tubes.

Rectifiers are likely my most rolled tubes in recent years and I love tuning with them, but I look forward to anyone's reports who goes for trying solid state drop ins. I would be surprised here if various solid state rectifiers weren't different enough to create meaningful choices also.
Back to top
 
 

All Modified: Balanced Transformer-DIY Strip/Shunyata Defender-RevolutionMacMini/Amarra-KTE Singxer/Gustardx20pro-ZBIT-CSP3-OldChen 300B/845, Torii IV, Simple Wave 300B-HR1/SVS Micro3000sub-Pi PCs-DIY PCs, ICs, USB, I2S, Speaker-SR and aluminum w ball bearing feet
  IP Logged
Lon
Seasoned Member
****


"Love without
guts is
worthless!"
Philip K. Dick

Posts: 23310
Re: Tube to Diode adaptor for Zen Products?
Reply #11 - 08/18/20 at 20:47:20
 
I too find Rectifiers to make siginificant, clearly audible differences, as all the tubes do--a complement changes when you change one tube or another. I have three different sets of rectifiers I generally use in the Monoblocks, each with a different input tube and I also sometimes roll the output tube voltage regulators. Many can work--at the moment I have Type 80 globes in the CSP3 and the Monoblocks.

These components are so responsive to power, isolation, cabling, tube rolling. . . . They are like chameleons!
Back to top
 
 

HR-1,ZTPRE,ZBIT,ZROCK2,SEWE300B,CSP3-25mod,Taboo MkIV;Rega RP3 all GrooveTracer mods;PSAudio:PST+DSD,P15,NPC,PowerBases,AC-12 pwr cbls,Reference spkrcbls;Mapleshade SamsonV3;VooDoo:Cremona+Amati interconnects, IsoPods; headphones:Sennheiser HD800S,ZMF Ori,Oppo PM1
  IP Logged
piezoman
Ex Member



Re: Tube to Diode adaptor for Zen Products?
Reply #12 - 08/19/20 at 02:20:13
 
litefootdan,

The large current draw of the output tubes in your Torii will cause the 47uf cap in the power section to be extremely hard on an 80 type tube, which is rated for a 10uf cap, maximum.

You can try it, but look for a very short tube life or even a very brief but entertaining fireworks show with the probable added disadvantage of a wiped out fuse.

Please check with Steve to verify.
Back to top
 
 
  IP Logged
will
Seasoned Member
****




Posts: 2914
Re: Tube to Diode adaptor for Zen Products?
Reply #13 - 08/19/20 at 23:06:59
 
I don't think Type 80 failure is universal. Some folks have had problems with them, and some not. And so far, Steve still pictures amps with globes.

I am not using them now, but did in the Torii for a while, and in my CSP3 for a long time. A variety of globe and ST shapes, I have had no flashes or failures. Who knows why some fail.... maybe how "NOS" they are, previous use, possible damage in shipping, amp or power variations??? I don't know, but that many have not had issues seems to imply it is not absolutely the reservoir cap ratings. I am guessing it might depend on design, construction, materials, heating, previous use, etc. as well as whatever ratings criteria were used.

When my amp was on the darker side during burnin, I often put in a Russian ST  shaped "5C4S = 5Z4 = 5Z4G = CV1863 Double-anode Rectifier tubes, NOS, 1958-1959" to open things up. They are not the best of my rectifiers, but pretty nice...clear and smooth. They are rated at 5 uF! Costing me about $30 for 4 delivered from the Ukraine, they have a solid seeming construction, are slow heating, and are made for military. Though relatively limited use here, they have been off and on a lot of times and not shown any signs of flashing, at least not yet.

Also, 5Y3GTs have been used a lot in CSPs in particular over the years and are still listed as a choice. At 32 uF, about 2/3s of 47 uF, and relatively inexpensive, failure earlier than the greats (if it happens) may not be a big deal.

So, not to suggest that caution is not warranted, just that absolutes about the cap ratings seem to not necessarily be absolute in my experience. And higher rated rectifiers can fail too, most of my failures in fact.

I almost always remembered to change nicer fuses before trying questionable rectifiers. But I lost a costly fuse one time, so came up with a good alternative. I found a slow blow glass fuse with a fairly heavy duty element, figuring it might be less prone to vibration than thin wire. Experimenting, I ended up with a 1/2+ WA fuse sticker and 1/2 of a small Telos sticker taped on, smoothing and clarifying the sound from the fuse. Figured the tape would damp it some too. It sounds clean like glass fuses, but without edginess, it is smooth with good fine detail. I just have to move the sticker if I blow one, something that has not happened since I found this solution due to a faulty pair of Telefunken GZ32s some years ago.
Back to top
 
 

All Modified: Balanced Transformer-DIY Strip/Shunyata Defender-RevolutionMacMini/Amarra-KTE Singxer/Gustardx20pro-ZBIT-CSP3-OldChen 300B/845, Torii IV, Simple Wave 300B-HR1/SVS Micro3000sub-Pi PCs-DIY PCs, ICs, USB, I2S, Speaker-SR and aluminum w ball bearing feet
  IP Logged
piezoman
Ex Member



Re: Tube to Diode adaptor for Zen Products?
Reply #14 - 08/20/20 at 16:57:45
 
will, thanks for your informative post.

Did you leave your CSP3 on most of the time?
Back to top
 
 
  IP Logged
will
Seasoned Member
****




Posts: 2914
Re: Tube to Diode adaptor for Zen Products?
Reply #15 - 08/20/20 at 20:34:02
 
Hey Piezo,

Not sure how useful my previous post is for many, but my experience being pretty deep into tube exploration.

I have the CSP3 and Torii running through my PSAudio regenerator I resorted to because I needed/wanted good voltage regulation for more consistent amp sound. They are set to work with the regenerator switch and I switch it off when not warming things up or listening. So no, being more like an amp, I turn off the CSP3 between uses.

Whereas, for better transparency, I have my front end components running through a slightly modified Audio Brickwall with a Shunyata Defender plugged in for filtering. I leave it on, so my Mac Mini, Singxer, DAC and ZBIT stay on. Also, when using it in my main system, I used to keep my ZStage on.
Back to top
 
 

All Modified: Balanced Transformer-DIY Strip/Shunyata Defender-RevolutionMacMini/Amarra-KTE Singxer/Gustardx20pro-ZBIT-CSP3-OldChen 300B/845, Torii IV, Simple Wave 300B-HR1/SVS Micro3000sub-Pi PCs-DIY PCs, ICs, USB, I2S, Speaker-SR and aluminum w ball bearing feet
  IP Logged
piezoman
Ex Member



Re: Tube to Diode adaptor for Zen Products?
Reply #16 - 08/20/20 at 22:05:39
 
will, et al......Steve's response to a recent email inquiry to him about the capacitor vs. rectifier in our amps:

"The 5Y3GT is rated for a 20 uf cap on the first section.  The small current draw of the output tubes in your Taboo does make it pretty forgiving.  If an amp with a large current draw, like our TORII JR for example, the same 47uf input cap would become a lot harder on the rectifier.  I don't recommend anything below a 20uf rating, unless you want to just accept the tube may be short lived, and or just leave your amp on all the time, in which case it will never be a problem."

will, your experience with a lower rated rectifier in your Torii shows that it isn't always a hard and fast rule. I suspect your CSP3 indeed with an 80 type rectifier, shut on & off with regularity is no problem as per your experience, and supports what Steve is saying in the case of a preamp or lower powered amp like the SEAUFO series, mini Torii, Taboo MK 4, possibly the Rachel.
Back to top
 
 
  IP Logged
will
Seasoned Member
****




Posts: 2914
Re: Tube to Diode adaptor for Zen Products?
Reply #17 - 08/21/20 at 01:44:26
 
Interesting quote from Steve.

I wonder....Are you for sure he is talking about "our amps?" Not having the context of your interaction, from the quote alone it sounds like he could be referring to the Taboo specifically, with a Torii Jr as a different reference point for how a 47 uF cap can effect rectifiers more intensely???

If looking at the quote as a general statement only, I got confused by the placement of his recommendation not to use "anything below 20uf." Since he started with the Taboo being forgiving due to a lower current draw, then moved into the Torii Jr's being less forgiving due to larger current draw, then he goes into the 20 uf minimum....In the quote context, this this could imply the 20 uF minimum as being for the Jr, and by extension, more of his amps??? Or if the context is about the Taboo, this recommendation could be specifically for your Taboo??? This made me think context probably matters, hoping to represent and understand what Steve is saying accurately.

Relative to whether we can generalize these things, I did not look at all amps on the Decware site, but I thought I recalled the 53YGT as recommended in the Torii IV spec area, and it is. But for the Torii Jr, only 5U4s are listed in its spec area. I wonder if this introduces another variable. I am not am engineer, but I was under the impression that the chokes on the Torii IV help absorb inrush current. If this is true, I wonder if the Jr does not have a choke, and that this might be a reason why lower rated rectifiers are not listed???

None-the-less, the Torii IV is a higher power Decware amp, and the 5Y3GT is listed for it.


As to ratings, Steve's saying 20 uf cap rating for 5Y3GT got my attention, being sure I had double checked my memory of 32 uF max for a 5Y3GT before posting that figure above.

Because it is easy for me, I often use the Valve Museum site for first reference, and go further if needed. Here is the page I got for a 5Y3GT http://www.r-type.org/exhib/aai0014.htm picturing a Sylvania, and saying 32 uF max.

So I looked further, and found a pdf from r-type.org (guessing Valve Museum also based on the site link above), a pdf appearing to be from GE, and rating the tube for a 20 uF Filter cap. As with many pdf spec sheets from companies, it does not specifically say max, just the filter cap rating.

Then looking at frank.pocnet.net where he puts up PDF spec sheets that appear to be from the companies, I got:

GE - 32 uF (where the valve museum pdf from GE says 20!)
Brimar - max 32 uF (this one says max)
RCA - 10 uF
RCA #2 - 20 uF
Tungsol - 20 uF

And finally, from tubebooks.org, I found a PDF from RCA with a filter capacitor input rating of 20 uF.

I had not run across these kinds of discrepancies before, and it was a good learning experience, but where does it leave us in the question of 5Y3GTs and filter caps in Decware amps?

Then looking at type 80s, many PDF spec sheets had no "capacitor input filter" value or "operating cap value" listed, but I found these:

Radio Museum general page for type 80 - 32 uF max
Valve Museum general page type 80 - 32 uF max
Valve Museum general type VT-80 - 32 max

Are you as confused as I?

Presumably the the "capacitor input filter" ratings could be "max" ....or not???

My mind is addled.  ;)


Back to top
 
 

All Modified: Balanced Transformer-DIY Strip/Shunyata Defender-RevolutionMacMini/Amarra-KTE Singxer/Gustardx20pro-ZBIT-CSP3-OldChen 300B/845, Torii IV, Simple Wave 300B-HR1/SVS Micro3000sub-Pi PCs-DIY PCs, ICs, USB, I2S, Speaker-SR and aluminum w ball bearing feet
  IP Logged
piezoman
Ex Member



Re: Tube to Diode adaptor for Zen Products?
Reply #18 - 08/21/20 at 02:01:23
 
will, yeah you got my mind all bent up, LOL

here is the context, adding in my question [please excuse my reference to "reservoir" cap near the end....this is outright incorrect....additionally, i referenced a 10uf cap which indeed was the RCA from the frank.pocnet.net site you cited]:

"Rectifiers and 47uf input cap
My Message / Comment:      

Hi Steve,

I have a question that's been eating away at me for some time, and would really like to get to the bottom of a discussion on the forum a few different times on the subject of which rectifiers are safe in our Decware amps. Its been mentioned by several members about the risk of using a rectifier that isn't rated to handle the 1st appearance capacitor. The lower the uf value rated for a given rectifier, the greater the liklihood of a rectifier failure vs. the 47 uf cap. Lots of talk about this, but nobody really seemed sure.

Which brings me to this: the 5Y3 tube is rated for a 10 uf cap, maximum. It is one of the tube types you advertise as being compatible in the Taboo Mk IV, which has as its reservior cap a 47 uf rating. This is quite a gap, which leads me to believe this amp won't damage just about any rectifier.....perhaps even down to one with a 4 uf rating.

Is this correct?"

Back to top
 
 
  IP Logged
CAJames
Seasoned Member
****


"I've run every
red light on memory
lane."

Posts: 1590
Re: Tube to Diode adaptor for Zen Products?
Reply #19 - 08/21/20 at 02:15:38
 
Note that the 5Y3 and the 5Y3GT have different ratings, with the 5Y3 being 10 uF and the GT being 20 uF typical and 32 max. The 5Y3GT is the one that is recommended for Decware amps, at least all the ones I've seen.
Back to top
 
 

[FOOBAR2000 | Jay's CDT2 MRK3] -> Denafrips Terminator 2 + Gaia
Sumiko Pearwood -> Mapleknoll Athena -> Luxman SUT -> Maple-tree Phono 3E
Woo WA22 -> 2x UFO25s, balanced monos
Omega SAM , Hifiman Arya, Senn HD-650
  IP Logged
will
Seasoned Member
****




Posts: 2914
Re: Tube to Diode adaptor for Zen Products?
Reply #20 - 08/21/20 at 06:53:39
 
Piezo,

Since you finished your question to Steve referring to a 5Y3GT being billed as compatible with a Taboo IV, and wondering how these lower rated rectifiers (the spec you found being for 10 uF filter caps) relate with the 47 uF caps used in the amp.... And possibly being able to use even lower 4 uF rectifiers... I am thinking Steve probably answered in the context of your Taboo IV.

Then it would seem the 20 uF minimum rating recommendation for long rectifier life would be relative to your Taboo IV also. Do you think?
Back to top
 
 

All Modified: Balanced Transformer-DIY Strip/Shunyata Defender-RevolutionMacMini/Amarra-KTE Singxer/Gustardx20pro-ZBIT-CSP3-OldChen 300B/845, Torii IV, Simple Wave 300B-HR1/SVS Micro3000sub-Pi PCs-DIY PCs, ICs, USB, I2S, Speaker-SR and aluminum w ball bearing feet
  IP Logged
will
Seasoned Member
****




Posts: 2914
Re: Tube to Diode adaptor for Zen Products?
Reply #21 - 08/21/20 at 06:59:13
 
CAJames,

Thanks for referring to typical versus max. So when a spec sheet says something like "Filter-Input Capacitor," without the term "max," can we assume this spec would generally be considered "typical?"

Most specs I quoted, the tubes were called 5Y3GTs, but one RCA sheet had "5Y3-G, 5Y3-GT". The G looks like a ST shape and bigger, the GT a bottle shape and smaller. Appearing to have different specs in general, the filter cap rating on this particular sheet looks like the same for both @ 10 uf.

https://frank.pocnet.net/sheets/049/5/5Y3G.pdf

I thought the following from the Radio Museum site for a 5Y3 was interesting.  

"Identical to   5Y3 = 5Y3G

Similar Tubes   Other shape (e.g. bulb type):
5Y3GT

First Source (s)      
06.Jun.1935 : Electron Tube Registration List
Base      Octal (Int.Octal, IO) K8A, USA 1935 (Codex=Vy)
Was used by Radio/TV-reception etc.

Filament      Vf 5 Volts / If 2 Ampere / Direct

Description
     
According to the nomenclature for American Octal tubes this tube would be a metal tube, as no suffix -G or -GT is added to the designation 5Y3, indicating the glass versions.

However this tube never appeared as a metal tube, but only in the glass versions 5Y3G and 5Y3GT.

Some manufacturers also stamped glass versions as 5Y3 only, contrary to the agreement, as the picture shows.

Also in schematic diagrams these suffixes are often omitted."


https://www.radiomuseum.org/tubes/tube_5y3.html


The spec diagram shown on this page says 32 uF max.
Back to top
 
 

All Modified: Balanced Transformer-DIY Strip/Shunyata Defender-RevolutionMacMini/Amarra-KTE Singxer/Gustardx20pro-ZBIT-CSP3-OldChen 300B/845, Torii IV, Simple Wave 300B-HR1/SVS Micro3000sub-Pi PCs-DIY PCs, ICs, USB, I2S, Speaker-SR and aluminum w ball bearing feet
  IP Logged
CAJames
Seasoned Member
****


"I've run every
red light on memory
lane."

Posts: 1590
Re: Tube to Diode adaptor for Zen Products?
Reply #22 - 08/21/20 at 14:13:11
 
Thanks Will, clearly the situation is (at least) a little more complicated than what I posted.

I hadn't seen the RCA data sheet you mention, but that is the only one I've seen that has the same specs for a 5Y3 and 5Y3GT. In my RCA tube manual it has data for the 5Y3GT, with 20 uF as max filter capacitance with an *, meaning you can exceed it if you're careful. For the 5Y3 they say "replace with a 5Y3GT" which usually means the GT is an up-spec'd equivalent. Other, non-RCA datasheets either say 20 or 32 uF for the GT. So, perhaps the way to look at is if you want to be the safest use the GT, as Decware recomends. The non-GT may or may not work as well.

But I guess to me, the bottom line is this: In my experience the 5Y3 is a "guitar amp tube." I've never heard anyone say they prefer a 5Y3 in their audio gear to a 5 (AR , R , U , Z) 4, or their European equivalents, if it will use them. Which isn't to say you/we shouldn't try for ourselves.

Back to top
 
 

[FOOBAR2000 | Jay's CDT2 MRK3] -> Denafrips Terminator 2 + Gaia
Sumiko Pearwood -> Mapleknoll Athena -> Luxman SUT -> Maple-tree Phono 3E
Woo WA22 -> 2x UFO25s, balanced monos
Omega SAM , Hifiman Arya, Senn HD-650
  IP Logged
Lon
Seasoned Member
****


"Love without
guts is
worthless!"
Philip K. Dick

Posts: 23310
Re: Tube to Diode adaptor for Zen Products?
Reply #23 - 08/21/20 at 14:21:40
 
I used one RCA 5Y3 for years in my CSP2+ and a Mazdo 5Y3 for a long time in my original Zen amp (#27 built). These were very good sounding tubes in those components and I had zero issues in years of use.
Back to top
 
 

HR-1,ZTPRE,ZBIT,ZROCK2,SEWE300B,CSP3-25mod,Taboo MkIV;Rega RP3 all GrooveTracer mods;PSAudio:PST+DSD,P15,NPC,PowerBases,AC-12 pwr cbls,Reference spkrcbls;Mapleshade SamsonV3;VooDoo:Cremona+Amati interconnects, IsoPods; headphones:Sennheiser HD800S,ZMF Ori,Oppo PM1
  IP Logged
CAJames
Seasoned Member
****


"I've run every
red light on memory
lane."

Posts: 1590
Re: Tube to Diode adaptor for Zen Products?
Reply #24 - 08/21/20 at 14:30:18
 
Quote:
Posted by: Lon      Posted on: Today at 14:21:40
I used one RCA 5Y3 for years in my CSP2+ and a Mazdo 5Y3 for a long time in my original Zen amp (#27 built). These were very good sounding tubes in those components and I had zero issues in years of use.


That's the other thing. In general "golden age" tubes far exceed their datasheet specs, and will work for years beyond the designed operating points. But that will vary from tube to tube, esp when they are 60+ years old.

So, are you saying you prefered the 5Y3 to other types and I need to update my previous post?


Back to top
 
 

[FOOBAR2000 | Jay's CDT2 MRK3] -> Denafrips Terminator 2 + Gaia
Sumiko Pearwood -> Mapleknoll Athena -> Luxman SUT -> Maple-tree Phono 3E
Woo WA22 -> 2x UFO25s, balanced monos
Omega SAM , Hifiman Arya, Senn HD-650
  IP Logged
Lon
Seasoned Member
****


"Love without
guts is
worthless!"
Philip K. Dick

Posts: 23310
Re: Tube to Diode adaptor for Zen Products?
Reply #25 - 08/21/20 at 15:33:52
 
This was back from '97 to 2000 or so, before I really began experimenting with tube types and this was a sound I had for a number of years. That RCA in particular in comparison to a lot of others of the 5Y3 and 5U4 type was one I really loved in the CSP2+ and used for a long time. So as far as updating your post it's not necessary. There was a time when I did prefer the NOS 5Y3 to Russian rectifiers I played with before, and in general I find in these machines it's easy to "prefer" a tube and then try another and roll tubes around it and "prefer" it for a spell as well, and then. . . .

Since 2007 or so I have experimented with a lot of other tube types but I could still build a complement around the 5Y3 in the CSP3-25 and the Monoblocks if I had enough on hand (matched pair for the Monoblocks). These components can work so well with so many different combinations. I'm not using the 5Y3 at the moment--the rectifiers I use (seemingly in rotation and with differing other tubes in the complements) are Sophia Electric 274B Aqua, RCA and Cunningham Type 80 Globes, RCA Type 80 bottle-shaped, Amperex 5R4WGA.
Back to top
 
 

HR-1,ZTPRE,ZBIT,ZROCK2,SEWE300B,CSP3-25mod,Taboo MkIV;Rega RP3 all GrooveTracer mods;PSAudio:PST+DSD,P15,NPC,PowerBases,AC-12 pwr cbls,Reference spkrcbls;Mapleshade SamsonV3;VooDoo:Cremona+Amati interconnects, IsoPods; headphones:Sennheiser HD800S,ZMF Ori,Oppo PM1
  IP Logged
will
Seasoned Member
****




Posts: 2914
Re: Tube to Diode adaptor for Zen Products?
Reply #26 - 08/21/20 at 15:43:01
 
Yes this has been an interesting dive into specs and use. The 5Y3 appears to be a little obscure and varied!

Above, I referred 1st to the 53YGT only as another reference for a tube not meeting spec with the 47 uF filter cap used in many of our amps, yet working for a lot of Decware folks.

I should dig mine out as I haven't tried them in many years, but back then I had yet to fall for some RCAs or Heinzt and Kaufman in my Torii or CSP3. If I recall correctly, they sounded quite good at first to me, but finally my complaint was mostly a relative lack of dynamics, making them seem a little flat to me.

But my amps and speakers are more resolving and fast now, so I will recheck.

This discussion has been informative and interesting to me. A lot of variables at play.

Anyone tried solid state replacements yet?

Back to top
 
 

All Modified: Balanced Transformer-DIY Strip/Shunyata Defender-RevolutionMacMini/Amarra-KTE Singxer/Gustardx20pro-ZBIT-CSP3-OldChen 300B/845, Torii IV, Simple Wave 300B-HR1/SVS Micro3000sub-Pi PCs-DIY PCs, ICs, USB, I2S, Speaker-SR and aluminum w ball bearing feet
  IP Logged
CAJames
Seasoned Member
****


"I've run every
red light on memory
lane."

Posts: 1590
Re: Tube to Diode adaptor for Zen Products?
Reply #27 - 08/21/20 at 15:49:23
 
Have you, or anyone, tried a type 83 rectifier? It is the predecessor of the 5U4 as the 80 is to the 5Y3.
Back to top
 
 

[FOOBAR2000 | Jay's CDT2 MRK3] -> Denafrips Terminator 2 + Gaia
Sumiko Pearwood -> Mapleknoll Athena -> Luxman SUT -> Maple-tree Phono 3E
Woo WA22 -> 2x UFO25s, balanced monos
Omega SAM , Hifiman Arya, Senn HD-650
  IP Logged
Lon
Seasoned Member
****


"Love without
guts is
worthless!"
Philip K. Dick

Posts: 23310
Re: Tube to Diode adaptor for Zen Products?
Reply #28 - 08/21/20 at 16:07:30
 
I have not myself.
Back to top
 
 

HR-1,ZTPRE,ZBIT,ZROCK2,SEWE300B,CSP3-25mod,Taboo MkIV;Rega RP3 all GrooveTracer mods;PSAudio:PST+DSD,P15,NPC,PowerBases,AC-12 pwr cbls,Reference spkrcbls;Mapleshade SamsonV3;VooDoo:Cremona+Amati interconnects, IsoPods; headphones:Sennheiser HD800S,ZMF Ori,Oppo PM1
  IP Logged
will
Seasoned Member
****




Posts: 2914
Re: Tube to Diode adaptor for Zen Products?
Reply #29 - 08/21/20 at 16:09:20
 
I haven't tried a type 83. I did use earlier 5U4G-STs for a long time and liked them...sounds interesting.
Back to top
 
 

All Modified: Balanced Transformer-DIY Strip/Shunyata Defender-RevolutionMacMini/Amarra-KTE Singxer/Gustardx20pro-ZBIT-CSP3-OldChen 300B/845, Torii IV, Simple Wave 300B-HR1/SVS Micro3000sub-Pi PCs-DIY PCs, ICs, USB, I2S, Speaker-SR and aluminum w ball bearing feet
  IP Logged
Pages: 1
Send Topic Print