With all of the buzz happening in the "Steve's BIG BETSY Project" thread in the General Discussion and Support forum, I have been doing some serious thinking about the future direction and destination of Caintuck Audio ...

Adding the Lii 15 baffle option has been interesting and I have received a large number of questions from prospective customers as to my recommendation for a loudspeaker purchase. As one might imagine, providing a satisfying answer to those questions is not really the easiest thing to do.

There are so many variables to be considered ...... the front end and amplification owned (or being considered) for use with the speakers, the size of the listening room, the type (or types) of music in the person's library and their listening habits, etc.

The Lii 15 is an easy recommendation for a lot of folks ..... based on the fact that they do so many things well and will eliminate the need for a supplemental bass system for many owners.

However ..... (there's always a "however") .....

There is quite a difference in the cost of the Lii 15 baffles compared to the original Betsy baffles ..... and despite the fact that a lot of music lovers are willing (and able) to spend whatever it takes to reach their audio nirvana, a large percentage of the music lovers contacting me want to spend as little as possible and still end up with a musical result.

I have spent the past few days in my new audio he shed swapping speakers ..... the original Betsy baffles, the Betsy alnico baffles and the Lii 15s. Apples and oranges, for sure .....
The beauty of the Betsy drivers (especially with well recorded music) can be absolutely stunning ..... but there is no denying that they drop off pretty quickly below 80 HZ or so.

It's not that difficult to add an additional baffle (or two) with larger drivers powered by a plate amp or subwoofer amp ..... but some folks don't want the added complexity or don't have the space in their room for additional baffles.  The other option is a high quality powered subwoofer which can be seamlessly integrated with some careful experimentation.

But, what about that music lover on a strict budget ?
Here comes the "sacrilege" part .....

A few months ago, I decided on a whim to order one of the small inexpensive powered subwoofers offered by Parts Express ..... specifically their 8" "house brand" model. I was curious to see if there was any way to make it sound respectable with a pair of Betsy baffles.
I became busy building speakers and doing some other projects and sat the little sub in the corner and pretty much forgot about it.

Two days ago while I was in my speaker swapping activities, I remembered the little sub and dragged it into the listening room.
It's not very big (about 12" cubed) and I tucked it into one of the front corners of the room.
Instead of running wires from the binding posts of the SE84UFO to the high level inputs of the sub, I ran wires from the binding posts of the Betsy baffles and tucked the wires out of sight under the carpet.

I adjusted the crossover and volume controls and started a listening session. After a couple of trips out of the listening chair to dial things in, I was quite happy with the sound I was hearing and pretty much amazed that I was hearing all of the things I enjoy so much about the Betsy baffles with a nice low frequency foundation.
I was running the Betsy baffles full range (not using the pass through high level outputs of the sub) and after getting the volume and crossover points of the subwoofer set, I backed the volume of the sub off slightly ..... very nice.
It wasn't drawing attention to itself, but the foundation it added made everything sound better ..... especially music with low frequency content.

So ..... I am happy to be able to recommend a pair of basic Betsy baffles with one of these little subwoofers (available from Parts Express) that only adds about 100.00 to the overall price.

I'm sure that there are some "purists" who will think it's time to get the torches and pitchforks ready to storm the castle at Caintuck Audio ..... but I have a sincere interest in serving the interests of the "sincere but (financially) challenged music lover".
This is a perfectly viable solution in my opinion and the best possible plan would be to spend the majority of the audio budget on an SE84UFO and use what's left for this speaker combo.

My time and efforts were justified today .....

A very nice gentleman from across the river in Cincinnati visited my listening room and we spent two and a half hours listening to the Betsy baffles, the alnico baffles and the Lii 15s ..... with the little PE sub adding its contribution to the Betsy and alnico baffles.
At the end of the session, he left for home with a pair of Betsy baffles and plans to order a little sub from Parts Express.

Does this mean that I no longer recommend the open baffles with larger drivers for bass augmentation ? By no means ..... I still think that open baffle bass is superior, but for those wanting an inexpensive and simple setup the PE sub will fill a niche.

The Lii 15 also fills a niche for a different group of music lovers and I am happy to be able to offer the options.
Right now, I am in the process of building three pairs of the Lii 15 baffles for customers with a probable fourth in the near future.

So ..... for now, hold off on the torches and pitchforks .....

I will bring the little sub to East Peoria in October and am thinking that some folks will be surprised at just how effective it is at a price nearly anyone can afford.

Looking forward to October ..... with all of the projects and new equipment on tap, this will certainly be a Decware Fest to remember .....

Happy listening,
Randy

Hey Randy,

I applaud your efforts to fill the gap in the lower (price, not the quality) end of the audio spectrum. Not everybody can, or even wants to, dedicate big dough to audio. Your approach yields big results for very little $$.

My hat's off to you.

The Other Randy

Randy,

You and Steve are the most important factors in my audio life. Thank God and the internet that I found you both. Making the switch to tubes (particularly low wattage SET) and open baffle speakers, have me in an absolutely perfect place. I never dreamed that I would have a system that sounds this great! And the fact that what I have was so affordable, I was able to get what I wanted.

Now, if I can just stop reading the Big Betsy thread. I have a terrible itch to try to keep up with the Jones's!

Geno

Hi, Absolutely new to the OP concept and have just recently started on my very modest 'Tube' adventure after years in vintage SS (Marantz, Carver, Mc) power audio.  My biggest problem with my current SW (Klipsch 12") is the WAF, of which there isn't any.  Has there been any experimentation with an OB containing both a Full Range and a SW driver that would maintain the same foot print but simply add height to the OB as opposed to a separate OB for SW use.  I would think that the SW's would need to be separately powered.  Something along the lines of a 10" Crystal (FR) and Lii15 (SW) perhaps?

Posting just to report that I purchased the Dayton Sub-800, 8". I'm enjoying it.

Many changes for me this year. New home and listening space, the switch from push-pull tubes to SET, and the switch from cabinet speakers to Open Baffle.

Everything is still breaking in. What with the move, and unpacking, and furniture shopping, putting hours on the SE84UFO and Betsy's and sub has been slower than usual. And the listening space is still a work in progress. But I am starting to hear really exceptional things  :)

I think I'm set for awhile, and I'm happy with it. I know I need time to let everything break in, especially the SE84UFO.

I don't have a pitchfork, but I do have a couple of manure forks .

Have you ever thought of trying out one of goldwood's GW1038/Pa 10" musical instrument speakers? 28hz to 8000hz with 92db efficiency. It might pair nicely with the Betsy driver.

I was absolutely stunned by the Betsy OB at Decfest 2018. Made me rethink everything about speakers in general. I did end up buying a pair of Imperial horns. I know where to get my bass fix

Thanks Randy for posting this!
I love the sub with the Tiny Radials! Best $100 I spend in a long time!