We have mods available for the ZROCK2.  If you have a 25th Anniversary Zen Triode Amplifier, and you want to use a ZROCK2 with it, you'll be fine when you goal is to listen to internet streaming of questionable sound quality.  However, if you plan to get in the sweet spot and do some serious listening, the ZROCK2 is not going to keep up with the insane speed of the SE84UFO25.

The mods are two fold, bypass caps on the power supply to speed it up and increase resolution, and a vacuum regulator tube that is permanently soldered into the interior and does not need replacement.  The vacuum tube filters the high voltage power giving a better result than if you had a stock unit plugged into a power regenerator.

Listening to the ZROCK2 with both of these mods is quite an experience.  The only words that keep coming to mind is "exquisite tone".  The midrange and depth is striking.

Again, this just became available and is not yet on the site or more specifically an option in the shopping cart, but can be purchased on new models with an email or phone call, or just by writing it into the comments section of the order form when you check out.

Happy Listening!

Steve

I am envious, Lon! Hard to imagine the ZROCK mods being THAT significant but, yep, I gotta have them. BUT I do not want to do without it long enough to send it in!?!?!  NOW what do I do? Man, I wish Steve had recommended that mod when I ordered mine.  :(

I just did the same thing and placed an order for another ZROCK2 with anniversary updates. I will use existing one in the office system when the new one arrives. Will also be fun to compare the two.

What are the prices for these upgrades?

Hi Steve,

Just to double confirm on what you mentioned that the moded ZROCK 2 can’t keep up with the speed of SE84UFO25.  Does it mean it is better not to have ZR2 and its mod?  Will this be true to other anniv Torii amps?

That's how I read it too.  I think the mods will be worth it.

Where would my dollars be best spent, on upgrading the capacitors (to Type 2 or 3) or doing the bypass mod?

gwng8 wrote on 11/22/18 at 21:33:17:

My personal guess: spending even more money to do both--update the caps to Type 2 and do the mods. Otherwise. . . my gut tells me do the mods on the stock capacitors may be a bit better than doing the capacitor mod alone, but doing both would be really beneficial.

The average lead time seems to be 8 to 10 weeks this year.

That's average for Decware. These are built by hand and thoroughly tested before release. This weekend there were 81 new orders placed for the Black Friday sale. . . . Good things come to those who wait. I admit I'm used to waiting for Decware products, been the case for over 20 years of my Decware using history.

I guess I just thought they had partially assembled models that they would then customize as required.

I posted earlier that I just received my modem ZR-2.  Actually I received it a couple of weeks ago but did not put it in until today.  The system is now in the new reno-ed room and the built in entertainment center.

I’ve been listening for about 6 hours so I would think that the mods still have a way to go before they’re burned in.  For those that may be wondering if the the mods are worth the money? - HELL YES! and, do both!!!

My ZR-2 is loaded including silver RCA’s and as good as it was, right from the get go the difference was, well, hard to come to terms with.

After about 30 minutes my wife who was listening on the sidelines without prompting said “everything you’ve played is very controlled, far richer and very melodic.”  She’s a non audiophile who has endured many years of my “hobby” with me.  She was right on.  It’s that obvious.

So we both sat down for the rest of the evening and just played tunes.  As the evening progressed the sound stage began to widen out in all directions.  I flipped the bypass switch two or three times to confirm what the difference was and I could only handle the bypassed version for a moment or two.

Before I had the ZR-2 I ran my ZDSD gain at -18dB.  After I got the ZR-2 I took it down to -14dB.  With the A-moded ZR-2 in place and the the ZDSD set at -14dB there is far more density, solidity and impact than when it was set at -18dB without the ZR-2 or at -14dB with the non A-moded ZR-2.

I do not like talking about the bass because that takes away from what the ZR-2 does which is much more than just bass restoration but it has to be mentioned... YES the A-moded ZR-2 pushes bass and bass head room well beyond expectations and it is a controlled bass, even at 6 hours of playing time.  I’m running Omega S3HOXRS speakers and the bass that is coming out of those speakers now with the A-moded ZR-2 has to be heard to be believed.  

My wife commented on something else that was of interest to her, she said quite genuinely, “you haven’t gone through your usual ritual of adjusting the speakers, should I get the tape measure?”  -  “No dear, I think you should refill your glass” was my reply, not really what I was thinking at that moment.  Yup the A-mods are that good and at only 6 hours. Lets see what will happen in the next 50 hours.

J, boy that post above really whetted my appetite when you wrote it and now, seemingly a half an eternity later, my ZROCK2 with the mods has shipped. No tracking number yet, but it should arrive Tuesday or so.

Really looking forward to it for two reasons: I want to experience this improved sound that is reported, even though I love the sound I have right now with the non-modded ZROCK2; secondly I really want to move my original ZROCK2 into my new audio-visual living room system, which sounds very good with CSP3-25 and Taboo MK IV-25 amp, but I KNOW a ZROCK2 will really help it to be its best, it's just lacking what the ZROCK2 will bring.

Mine arrived. I was immediately disappointed to see that instead of the ebony knob I requested I got a black chicken-head knob. Sigh. I'll live with it.

I've hooked it up and it's. . . tarter then my first ZROCK2, which is to be expected at this stage. I'll let it cook in overnight and listen tomorrow; my wife is home today so little listening possible anyway.

I moved my first ZROCK2 into the living room system and listened to a half a cd while Lucy was walking Fiona. Wow. That was exactly what that system needs (as I knew) and it delivers. I'll be enjoying listening to that system a lot more!

I don't think I want to do the butterknife pry off thing. I'll be okay. I'm getting over my ebony knob obsession I guess. When I sent my Taboo Mk IV in for the upgrades it came back with three black knobs in place of the ebony originally on the unit. I don't like them as much (especially how they feel to the fingertips) but I'm getting used to them. inversely when I sent my CSP2+ in for the mods, it came back with the gold knob it had replaced with an ebony knob. I'm going to get off the knob merry-go-round right now.

That's cool John. I really enjoy the sound with both audio and video sources with the new system I have set up, especially now that I have the original ZROCK2 in place. (I think that the fully modded ZROCK2 that just arrived would show up the shortcomings of the Oppo UDP-205 that I am using, I clearly hear its shortcomings compared to the PS Audio duo I use in the other system).

The fully modded ZROCK2 is sounding a bit better today in the main system. I will play around with gain settings of the ZTPRE and the ZBIT as this new gain stage with added caps and a regulation tube is different than the original ZROCK2 and I can hear that. I'm loathe to roll tubes. . . . The complement that I am using now is one of the few that suits all the material I toss at the system, analog and digital and I spent a long time getting here. I am pretty sure I'm hearing "break in" characteristics that will "dissolve" in the near future. I've been breaking in a lot of things lately--Taboo Mk IV with mods, CSP2+ with mods, ZLC . . . and now ZROCK2 with mods. I've also moved my main system and set up two new ones. I'm just a little too eager for a "settled in" sound. I need to just sit back and let things happen and not be so analytical right now.

It hasn’t been a week but sometimes even when the burn in isn’t complete you can tell that you’ve nailed it.  Lon’s right... the ZR2, even before the A-mods, does reveal good and bad but not to the same degree as after the A-mods.  This is a very good thing because if you follow what it’s telling you, you end up with something that is so outsdanding.

Before getting the A-mods on my ZR2 I knew I would have do make some changes to the cabling, simply changing connectors did it.  Actually that started when I installed my new Co-Ax cable, actually it isn’t a Co-Ax configuration - a Boomslang (I know Lon... it doesn’t exist), and that was before the A-mods.

When I got the my A-moded ZR2, as impressive as it was, it and the UFO-25 were pointing to something else that needed ‘adjusting’.  I was using a Seimens ECC82 nickel plate in the ZR2, great tube in the right application.  I use German tubes because they can be very dynamic but do tilt to the upper frequencies, which up until I got the modded ZR2 was good for me.  Afterwords though, as the moded ZR2 continued to burn in the ‘tartness’ started to become a distraction from the really good things that were happening and that I was so impressed with

So I felt that I needed to experiment with the tube that I had in the A- moded ZR-2, but had a limited choice of tubes, a Seimens E80CC and the tube that came with the ZR2, a re branded GE 5963 long grey plate 60’s vintage.  Put the Seimens ECC80 in and the ‘tartness’ was gone.  Nice but not enough resolution for me.  So I put the original Red Tipped GE in thinking why not.  Things improved quite significantly, tartness gone,  impressive, better resolution but I wanted more life.

Next I looked at what I had in my CSP-3 outputs...  6N11’s.  These had been in for a couple of years and I new that these Could be a bit ‘hard’.  So these were the next to go.  I have a few options here and the one I chose went against my better judgment.. pair of Seimens ECC88.  I have a couple of pair and I was thinking of selling them, but I put them in the CSP-3 with the original GE 5963 in the A-modded ZR-2  and W O W!!!

Walking back to my chair I started to move to the tempo of the music and I didn’t sit down for a while.  As the tubes started to burn in I noticed a bit of haziness with some music but not all, with jazz it was great, my wife commented that it’s like being in a smokey bar.

So I got and tried an RCA 5963 blackplate and a National 5963 black plate.  Really nice but lost some life and after experiencing that I was not prepared to let it go.  Next I tried a Sylvania 5963 long grey plate and BINGO.  More resolution no ‘tartness’ and all the life is back.  I did dial the input volume level on my ZDSD back from -.5dB to -1dB.

What I mean by life is what we used to refer to as PRaT, I think that Naim started that.  Now some will argue that you can only get Pace, Rythm and Timing in a live event.  Well, I can’t keep still when I listen now, toe tapping and foot stomping galore!  Voices to die for... Yes all the audiophile stuff is there along with a huge sound stage with a large scale perspective on the musicians and vocalists.  But the sheer dynamic power of the music is just amazing.  You can clearly hear what the musicians are doing, perhaps not as much as in a live event but more than enough.  

The ZR-2 still reveals the quality of the recording, however, I’ve yet to take a disc out regardless.

As everything is burning in the PRaT remains and the sound gets better.  Let me emphasize it’s not just one tube that’s doing this it’s sum of the whole, not just the tube.  No magic bullet, just patience and perserverence.  

I have to confess, one more tube en route... Raytheon 3 hole grey plate, wind mill getter.  After that, a final selection and tube rolling is over, just need to get spares.  For now it’s the Sylvania 5963 long grey plate and GE 5963 long grey plate for me, in that close order.  I’m keeping both.  You may find you like the black plate tubes better with your set up.

Finally after many years of trial and trial, I’m there!

Some more experimentation with speaker positioning and gain, and some more time and the system is sounding much better with the ZROCK2. The National tube that Steve sent its the unit is sounding very good with all my other tube complements unchanged. But I've ended up with the Amperex 12AU7 I was using before after trying four other "types" and brands on hand. I'm used to it, and it has a warm touch to the midrange that I love, especially showing this with piano mid and low range notes.

The dynamics and detail that the ZROCK2 lets through makes for exciting listening, and moving listening too (Billie Holiday really moved me). . . .

Week after next you'll be jamming to it HK!

This is sort of the story of my life: I find something I love, stock up on it and then somehow it becomes unnecessary to have done so. In this case OD3 voltage regulation tubes.

Thanks to Juan pointing out the possibilities with the Monoblocks and that tube type I went on a spree of trying different brands and types (thank goodness they are cheap) and found that I loved the OD3W. . . and have on hand a total of nine pair in Tung-Sol (my favorite so far), Raytheon, Sylvania and Chatham. And with the OG ZROCK2 these were just the ticket to give me a full range of tonality for the music I have on hand to play. Totally dig the way the space is between the notes and the tightness and accuracy of the lower frequencies.

And then the upstart 25th Anniversary ZROCK2 arrives and everything is different. As John suggested I rolled all kinds of tubes in the ZROCK2 and even tried rolling a few tubes elsewhere, and I know it's still breaking in a bit but I just couldn't find a set up where I relaxed into the music. I even almost swapped it out with the OG ZROCK2 now living in the living-room audio/video system quite happily. But then I dawned on me to roll voltage regulation tubes for the Monoblocks and that was the ticket. I tried OB3 only to find that the only pair I kept after adding a number of tubes to the sale of my two Torii Mk IIIs and my Torii Mk II, my trusty favorite Arcturus. . . were not functional--one of the tubes just won't "ignite." So I tried OA3, of which I have five single ones (ZP3 experimentation) and two pair. I tried the Sylvania pair (sent with the amp by Steve) and realized right away this was the ticket: the modded ZROCK2 loved the OA3 so much more than the OD3W. And then I tried the other pair, GE, and there's a certain atmospheric charm these have and they've stayed in. I ordered a pair of RCA OA3 to try too as I've had great success with them in the past in the Toriis.

So now the OA3s are making everything so much better and the new ZROCK2 is inching my system up a few notches as it seasons. A bit more dynamics, a bit more detail and transient speed, and now the frequency balance is back where I need it to be. The system has been through some real changes the past six weeks and here's hoping it continues to improve as it has . . . .

And I have a lot of OD3W tubes to store. Who knows maybe another tube complement or component change will bring them back into favored status.

This audio hobby is rarely ever boring!

I actually think I get radical sound change from all the positions, but yeah, rectifiers are important. I've settled on the Sophia Electric Aqua 274B as my anchor rectifiers. . . they are just the most "invisible" that I've tried, and boy have I tried rectifiers, I have a drawer full! I use them as an anchor to build around. Likewise Amperex inputs. . . there's something about the Holland Amperex family sound that just works so well with my interconnects and power cabling and system as a whole. . . . That leaves me the voltage regulation tubes to play with more than the others and I thought I had that covered til yesterday, and the OA3 are sounding so good today that I guess I may have that covered too.

Tube rolling is fun, but I do love it when I feel I don't HAVE to roll. This year has seen a lot of improvements and I don't regret sending units in for modding and buying new components, but I do just want to sit back and relax and listen and I think I'm close to that point again thank goodness!

Come on summer, lots of reasons to look forward to that!

I can agree with a lot of what you are saying here. The ZROCK2 with the mods has a different nature.

The thing for me is that I NEED BASS RESTORATION. And there's less going on, at least at this point in the life of my modded ZROCK2, than there is in the original gangster ZROCK2. CONSIDERABLY less, which surprised me from moment one.

And. . . I really don't find that it's altering my original tube choices in the other components. In fact I've already this afternoon back-pedaled and put the OD3W back in the Monoblocks to control the output tubes. I rolled in a tube to the modded ZROCK that I had forgotten I had and found stuck behind a box of other tubes: one of a pair of GE 5814A. This a very accurate and very smooth tube. It takes off the treble edge I was experiencing with the other tubes and allows the OD3W to shine as it has done.

And I agree that there's more holographic info (even though my system is not really set up for that) and dynamic contrasts are more pronounced--there's just a blacker clarity still (the amps have so much!) that as you say lets the recording unfold (well, you put it that you can hear what the musicians are doing better, I prefer to think of it as there is more of the recording passed through cleanly and without time smear).

Still, I have mine cranked all the way with EQA to get the bass I need, regardless of tube complement now. I can live with that, it's just different behavior that I did not expect from my experience with the OG ZROCK2 which I did not have to turn up that high. I can move my speakers further back to the front wall corners but that gives me other imaging and sonic changes I don't want. Perhaps in time the unit will allow me a bit more lower end heft. . . maybe that will season in. . . sometimes that happens with capacitor aging. That's my fervent wish--to have the ability to back it off from full tilt. I've accepted it after four days, and as long as I get what I am getting now I'll be happy, but it is the most unexpected part of the experience for me and I was scratching my head over it for a while.

So I get that there's more resolution and more juicy subtle dynamics that give a breath of life. But the "heft" is missing from the equation in my system. I wonder if its the tube voltage mod that is making this the case for me. My system is already very well regulated by my PS Audio P10. I may have a different experience with just the capacitor mod or may need to find a way to try to plug in the modded ZROCK2 outside of the P10 (though my experience is that a component plugged outside the P10 gives less "hit"). Still, I am getting accustomed to the sound, getting some good fine-tuning accomplished, and hope that some more break-in will give me a bit more heft, allowing me to back off the knob somewhat. Time will tell.

We must have some fundamentally different things going on cabling wise or room wise or both to have such a different frequency balance going on.

I've hardly ever had any luck with NOS Telefunken, too thin and brittle sounding for me. In contrast there's a new reissue that came within the Magnum Dynalab 90T SE tuner that I have that is totally different and quite nice. But it's a new tube, and I'm not sure that it has any real resemblance to an original.

The 6N11 I could not tolerate in my system, way too bright.

The voltage regulation tubes are different in our amps. My input tubes are governed by an OA2 type, tucked inside the component on the underside of the chassis. My output tubes are regulated by the OD3W.

I too hope that that there's a little more bass. We'll see.

Yes, different rooms, different cabling. The rooms are what are against me with the bass frequencies. The OG ZROCK2 saved me in my former place for it, and my new place, the modded ZROCK2 is just barely.

I don't use coaxial in my system now! HDMI for my DAC and optical from my DVR to my Oppo downstairs. PS Audio power cabling and VooDoo cable interconnects with the exception of one pair of Take Five Audio Neotech Deluxe XLR from phono preamp to ZTPRE.  Years ago I used Decware cabling.

It's the room putting me in this situation. And I can't do treatment. Ah well. I'll try different speaker isolation tomorrow, may help. As I say I can get there but the ZROCK2 is MAXED! I think I'll be fine as time passes.

Lon, in my ZP3, I long ago settled on RCA Triple Mica 5814s, so that's what I put in my ZROCK2s and haven't experimented further.  The Black plate GE triple Mica 5814s are almost as good as the RCA but make sure they are Black plates not the grey plates which I think are also out there...

I'm not sure what the prices are now...bought all mine fairly cheap

For the RCAs, both the white and red labels are good...I think the white labels are older

Okay, more time has passed and things are sounding better as far as lower frequencies. I decided to change speaker cabling, which really helped, the PS Audio xStream Statement is in now, and putting OD3W in the amps helps to get me the wonderful openness that the Mapleshade Audio Double Helix Plus were bringing to the system, plus the cabling has a fuller bass sound that is welcome.

And Mark, I decided to order a pair of the RCA black plate triple mica 5814A you recommend. The GE grey plates are sounding so good. . . I might as well try the RCA.

EQB hasn't worked for me with the OG ZROCK2 or this modded one, believe me I've tried it. Not enough treble reduction per bass boost. I think we have different needs in room/system.

I must say that with the speaker cable change I was pretty much where I needed to be, with the 5814A tube and could have the ZROCK2 at about the 25 minute on the hour position, and excellent sound.

And then today I installed the latest firmware for the PS Audio DirectStream Memory Player and I observed as many others have a decided improvement in bass response and was very happy for the hour I got to spend with the system (my wife was home today and I didn't have any more time for music). Looking forward to tomorrow, I think that the ZROCK2 has broken in considerably and I have things dialed in well. I am thrilled with the solidity of the instrumental sound and the dynamics this modded component is capable of.

JOMAN,

Great to know this. I should be getting my 25th Anniversary ZR2 in a couple weeks. I look forward to experimenting with the settings, after things settle in.

I'm guessing about 200-250 hours for the caps and everything to fully "burn in". Does this amount of time sound right for folks that have the modded ZR2?

HK

HockessinKid, I lost track of time and do not think that I’m at the 200 hr., point.  Like Scott I had a lot of things going on at the same time.  I would say at about the 25 hour mark I started to notice changes.  Now I’m probably somewhere between 70 and 100 hours.  

The first significant change was 20 - hours after I installed the new spades on my cables.  I did have the ZR-2 with modifications before I installed the spades.  Immediately after I installed the spades the sound went for a bit of dump.  Around the 20 hour mark things began to sound like they did before only much better.

The next thing I changed was the tube that was in the ZR-2 prior to the mods.  It worked then but not after the mods and the more the whole affair burnt in the more it became evident.  So I went back to what was sent with the ZR-2, the 5963 long grey plate.  Much better.  Talked to Steve and I bought a Philips long grey plate and a National black plate.

As the Philips settled in, along with a tube change in my CSP-3 the results started to edge into the ‘spectacular’ category and they continue to ‘improve’.  That’s not the word I’m looking for but I think it’ll make the point.

So more to the point, the results continue to go more and more into the ‘spectacular’ category and I think it’s now the ZR-2 modified that is changing, seasoning as time goes on.  If it stopped here I would be thrilled but based on what is happening every time I turn it on, I do think it has a ways to go yet.  When I get to the 200 hour mark I’ll see where it all ends up.

I don’t like to make statements that can be taken as absolutely ‘this is what will happen’ as there are too many variables, but in this case, if you are patient, I think you’ll be rewarded beyond expectations.

Sorry about the duplicate post... something went haywire with the server at the time that I posted...

No, I think that's how it is designed to be, I think "muddy" is not the word I would use but darker, more treble reduction, lower frequency boost in EQA compared to EQB.

But with the 25th Anniversary modified ZROCK2 I find there is far less "muddiness" possible. So much more open and transparent. I wish there were a bit more bass boost, maybe it will come, seems unlikely now. But when Steve says the original ZROCK2 can hold back a system with 25th Anniversary modifications to amps and preamps I believe him now. The modded ZROCK2 certainly unleashes the sonic beasts!

I don't know, I'm at the point that I thought today about sending the modded ZROCK2 back. It's been a while since I thought of sending a Decware component back.

I got the RCA backplate 5814As in and though I like to have a tube in the component a few days to draw a conclusion, so far after about five hours it sounds essentially the same as the GE gray plate, which is okay, good in fact; it may get a touch of warmth in a day or so, we'll see.

But compared to the OG ZROCK2 everything is still just a tad brighter than I'd like pretty much regardless of tube type. Sounding oh so good as far as detail and dynamics and instrumental character and texture. . . but just a tad too bright.

And then today I tried bypass to compare. . . and in bypass the channels are reversed! When I tried it before it was with mono material, but today stereo. What the heck? That and the wrong knob put on this is two strikes. The tad of brightness (and I have treble cut circuits on my amps!) makes me wonder if all is copacetic. I could put it in my second system and put the OG ZROCK2 back in and relax into listening again. I haven't had relaxed listening really since this arrived.

I'll give it more time. It's been plugged in 12 days and had music flowing through it probably more than one hundred hours. . . .

Anyway I can tell it's supposed to be a killer component and other than being a tad too bright it is. . . . I'll give it more time.

It's possible. Sure is hard to send something back. . . . I may email Steve for a suggestion. Thanks for the assessment.

I've moved away from the 5814A back to Amperex 12AU7 which are helping just a bit, brining pretty much where I want to be with EQA nearly all the way up. But the tubes not warmed up enough, and my window for listening is ending.

This could all be a burn-in journey. I emailed Steve for his input as to whether what I am experiencing is normal with the mods.

Yeah, thanks. I think I may just be experiencing break-in. . . . I'll quit expressing for a few more days and weigh in if there's changes. I'm hoping that last bit of brightness goes away.

Thanks HK. I remember what you reported of your journey. Glad it's been sorted out for a long time now!

Thanks for that info John. I won't be doing any changes myself. I'll wait to hear back from Steve (I hope) and go from there.

Today I received the first two Raytheon 5814a windmill getter tubes.  I’ve got 5 hours on one and right from the outset this tube showed that it is very different from the 5963 grey and black plates that I have tried.

Not too many reviews on these but the couple that there are seem to be spot on.  It seems to have the best of what the 5963 grey and black plates offer, at least the ones that I’ve tried.  I’m going to put another 50 hours on these and then make an assessment on these and the Sylvania 5963 long grey plates.  So another 75 - 100 hours.

They are the most extendended across the frequency spectrum of the ones that I’ve tried without being too hot in the treble or boomy in the bass.  Vocals are really good and may be the best yet.

Right now I’ve got the ZR2 set in the A position and its anything but muddy with this tube.  The highs are attenuated but very present.  If I were to nit pick I’d like to see a touch more in the mids.  I’ll put another 20 hours on this tube and try it in the B position with better source material.  At that point I should be able to get a better ‘feel’ for this tube.

I haven't heard anything back from Steve about the reversed wiring for the bypass affecting anything else. To be honest nothing seems wrong, and further break in has really helped the sound, and I haven't ended up with any tube changes except the ZROCK2 tube which has an RCA black plate 5814A that is seasoning in nicely.

Vinyl playback sounds pretty amazing. I had an issue for a while and it just didn't sound as good as I knew it should and then discovered that though the turntable was level in one direction it was off in the other axis and when corrected . . . great great sound. I really like the PS Audio NuWave Phono Converter--I'm getting the sound that I like as much as the ZP3 sound, and its balanced output with my Take Five Audio Deluxe Neotech XLR cables is perfect for the ZTPRE.

With all the tuning I've done these last weeks it's at the point now that when I flip sources between vinyl playback and digital playback I don't have to touch the ZROCK2, I just adjust the volume and I switch from "MultiWave" (for digital) to "Sine" mode on the PS Audio P10, and I can do both of those via remotes.

I'm almost relaxing into the digital playback, it mostly sounds fantastic and I'm so relieved. As John has said above the modded ZROCK2 really does show you what you have on recordings. A great recording can stop you in your tracks and take the world away. I think as this RCA tube continues to season (I'm using the GE version in my ZROCK2 in my downstairs system) I'll be where I want to be and can quit futzing and just spin whatever I feel I want to from my collection.

One big improvement for me was using four each of the VooDoo Cable "Iso-Pod" footers under each speaker--not the current version but the predecessor which was much cheaper, just had one bearing separating two pieces, effectively isolating the speaker from the carpeted floor. Of all the different ways I've had the speakers this one really opens up the sound of the HR-1s and the height puts the tweeters where they do their best and don't over achieve.

The ZROCK2, modded or not, is a system-changing product. The modded version will bring a microscope to the signal coming in and allow varying focus. In my system it caused a minor upheaval, not unlike the firmware upgrade to "SnowMass" did with my DAC. There was a significant difference between the modded and its predecessor, and the difference was chiefly in detail portrayal, and I had to deal with it to acclimate to the sound and presentation. I think I'm nearing completion of the process, and pleased to be nearing the end of the process, and pleased with the resulting musical environment.

It’s been about 15 hours on the Raytheon 5814a wndimill getter in the ZR2 and I have to say what a disappointment!  Should you have any of these don’t install them, don’t listen to them, save yourself the agony.  In fact out of the goodness of my heart let me help you out... send them all to me.  ;)

JOMAN wrote on 03/29/19 at 03:24:28:


Glad you are enjoying the Windmill Raytheon. I haven't tried those but am loving the backplate RCA and the GE gray plate, both in use in my ZROCK2s (the RCA in the modded, the GE in the OG). A great tube. . . full of life and character.

HK,

You’re going to be very pleased with what you have coming, I’m pretty sure...
It’s always nice when things make it on the truck.
Happy Listening.

Best,
Scott

I predict you will be happy with it in far less time then "a few" weeks!  :)

Holy Crap, Holy Crap and this after only 10 hours of ZR2 burn in. Listening to vinyl this morning was an absolute revelation. The music has been elevated to a whole new sensory level - I am swimming in the sound.

HK

HK,

Did you have the zrock and have it A modded or is this a maiden voyage? Cheers

^ very nice. Deciding if I want to send mine in the the A treatment. It will suck to part with it /:

Yes, that was my experience as well. Two to three weeks of use and it's so much better. . . . Hang in there, it's worth it.

I've had two modifications to existing components--Taboo Mk IV and CSP2+--and the Anniversary Mods sounded great right off the bat and the whole components didn't go through the mood swings that the fully new ZROCK2 with the mods did! So I think your ZMA modification break-in will be. .. smoother.

Lon,

Thank you for the additional break in period information. I am using the ZROCK2 exclusively in my vinyl listening chain (between my phono preamp and CSP3 preamp), so its not on constantly. I have been listening about 4-5 hours straight per day, then off for the remainder. So my full break in period (150 hours) will likely be a 1.5 months or more.  

I heard some widening of the soundstage this morning, but tonality is still shifting around and there's some muddiness to the sound throughout the frequency range. No bigee, things will improve with time.

HK

Lon,

It stays plugged in 24/7 per the manual recommendation. I'll try unplugging a couple nights to see if it helps. Thanks again.

HK

This morning after unplugging the ZR2 last evening I heard distorted vocals and congestion for the first two hours. Then (somewhere between 40-45 total listening hours) everything snapped into focus.

Music on steroids, hyper detailed sound with a massive soundstage. I felt like it was being shot out of a huge fire hose straight at me. I was almost blown out of my seat by the Talking Heads "Stop Making Sense" album. Transients had a bit of a hyper real leading edge, kind of like a ruthlessly revealing DDD digital recording.

I am hoping that the caps will settle in some more and smooth out over the next 25-30 hours. Then I'll spin some really well recorded piano and vocal albums to carefully check things out.

BTW, my turntable is totally dialed in now. Adjusted the level and VTA yesterday. I'm extracting everything out of those grooves.

HK

I whole heartedly agree with the rollercoaster ride on this one!  Mine ZR2-A25 arrived Monday morning and has been plugged in a had music running through it non stop since.   At times I can sit and listen and start to hear 'it',  at other times it feels so uninvolved that I'm out of my seat within a couple songs.   I'm trying to leave the same tube for brake-in in although I do have a 6085 on the way, arriving tomorrow.
Initially on my Zu's,  the ZR2 had me questioning it synergy with the speakers due to the feeling that the tilted mid/low-mid-range was a bit overly exacerbated, naturally by the freq shift that the ZR2 pushes.   Last night that had seemed to 'calm' down a bit and was not as pronounced through the speakers.
 Here's to being hopeful... I really want to like it, and feel I will,  it's gonna take some time to beak/dial in....
  I think going forward for the weekend at least,  I will unplug over night and turn on again in the mornings...

Yes,  knowing that you and others have had a time getting it to settle in helps my nerves a bit!  I think we're all so used to (and know) what great sound is, that when a new component like the ZR2-A is introduced and just doesn't immediately fit-in,  it unhinges us a bit,  :-/.  Glad to hear yours is finally there Lon and with your other tweaks is giving you what you want/need.   I can definitely hear the benefit at times,  just waiting on the consistency I guess.  Then let the tube rolling begin,

Since I put the Raytheon 5814a W-getter I also have experienced a bit of a roller coaster ride.  Tried the ‘off time’ and it definitely made a difference.  Did it again last night.

The ZR2 with the A mods has been settling down and while there’s no going back for me now, it has been somewhat unsettling.  It takes the Decware house sound in an altogether different direction, another plateau so to speak and this for me was unexpected.  Still rooted in the Decware house sound but not what I had become accustomed to.

Yesterday I walked over to the system to turn the volume up a notch, leaned over, started to clasp the volume knob on the CSP3 and froze in that position, getting my mind around what I was hearing.  One of the thoughts that ran through my head was “this must really look ridiculous”.

The sound seems to emanate from the air around the speakers and within a very large sound stage in a manner that is so like the way it would sound if the person or instrument was in the room.  This is not the same as “it’s here” or “I’m there”, it’s hard to describe.  Obviously no one is really in the room but the impression of that is so solid that it’s... unsettling.

As Lon said it’s resulted in a bit of playing around and I’ve decided to take one more step that I never thought I would.  I’ve now collected enough of the Raytheon 5814a W-getters to send a couple off for cryogenic treatment.  I found out that Gene at Take Five does that or has it done, and I have confidence in him so when I get the next pair off they go.  

I think that we’re more alike than different... “Shouldn’t have done it...but...

Same here!

After ~65-70 hours the caps seem to have bloomed. Not sure if there will be additional periods of funky, closed in sound but for the time being the sound quality is excellent.

Deep, black background to the music. Gobsmacking detail with tone to die for. My vinyl has never sounded so good. Hoping this isn't just a dream.😎

I am disconnecting the power cord at night per Lons' suggestion. This seems to be helping.

HK

Happy to report that my modded ZR2 with the Raytheon 5814a W getter is settling in very nicely, I’d say it’s ‘killer’ now and probably still has some more settling in to do.  A couple of ‘off’ periods helped a lot.

Next... CSP3 mods.  Love the looks of the new Anniversary Edition but don’t want to loose the headphone capability.  I can only add so many components.

Joman, I would like to try the 5814A but cannot find any information referencing the W-gitter. Can you steer me in the right direction.

Thanks, I’ll take a look. I’d like to try one in my Zrock.

Just got a new zock2, no cap upgrade (yet).

First thing I did, is hook it up using the bypass switch only, then removing the unit altogether to determine if the unit is truly out of the system when bypassed. I did this many times for comparison reasons. This is between Oppo player and preamp, for now.

There is noticeable difference with and without the unit, in my system. The only other difference would be the extra set of interconnects needed, which are only 2 ft and exactly the same build as my preamp to amps interconnects. (Neotech MKIII with Neotech connectors).

Because it is introducing loss of clarity and imaging, some dynamics, and that bit of closed in sound, I'll attribute that to needing break in time. Really in bypass mode there looks to be only some mogami cable plus the female RCA's, so it shouldn't really be noticeable unless something needs to settle in.

Any thoughts about this?

Thanks in advance.

Sure caps and a bit of wire, mostly the caps, specially if they're in the signal path, will change, we'll see. IME you normally get a pretty good idea after that first few hours, talking specifically caps & wire, but they will continue to change.

Maybe you should try what I did, since using the unit and adding the EQ curve does increase imaging and what not, it's sort of tough to tell if your original imaging and sonics are coming thru or not, see what I'm saying?

It's not just about ultimate transparency, when you have a great system, everything matters. For example, caps in the zrock. You would likely want better caps than stock, like the jupiters or even sonicaps. Parts matter.

It's just like cap and tube rolling, I know you're into that, right? It all matters. Most every single part inside the zrock matters, so something is causing the sound to behave as I described in bypass mode. If you think swapping a tube makes a difference, think what it could sound like if it truly only added EQ, and took away absolutely nothing else.

There's already been mods, tube, caps, even power cord, what if it was taken further with possibly a goldpoint attenuator, neotech hookup wire, bypass the bypass switch itself, furutech RCA's, etc., You get even closer.

Look at it like this. If you were able to modify the zrock to the point where it was very difficult to tell whether your system sounded the same with the unit completely removed and the bypass switch, think of what it could really sound like when you added the EQ.

I guess if Steve released upgrades like I mentioned, you would jump, (just like the cap mods), but coming from me, I get it, but we all know better parts normally = better sonics. I know it can do better, but hey if you're happy. You have to look inside the unit and understand how the signal path is being affected. I used to never question any manufacturer. But there's compromise in almost every design, you just have to understand it. BTW Jupiter makes great caps.  :-X

I understand how the unit works, and what you are saying. I do know there's always more one can do, I know what parts can do. You're new to posting here, and it's not that I'm shooting down your suggestion, it's just that I've been living with Decware components in my system since 1998 and have been watching and using developments in their gear for over two decades and have consolidated my approach and formed my own vision of what a system brings to my listening time. I have taken my ZROCK2s out of the system before, early on in their use, to help analyze and appreciate what they DO. And realize that I would not want to have a system without one. A tiny bit (after break in I'm sure you'll find that's all there really is) of a loss of ultimate transparency is not an issue for my system as it works so so very well.

And I've actually found in my listening world chasing the very best, most transparent, is not the best course for me. I honestly am in this hobby for music. I used to play, now I listen. I have thousands of discs and most are NOT wonderful sounding recordings. I find my systems need a little forgiveness, and in some ways the ZROCK2 in its configurations from the factory (I own one with no mods in a predominantly vilsual-based system as well) is almost like a father-confessor of sound, it allows me to have that bit of forgiveness needed. I'm not a DIYer so I'm not going to mod components myself, and usually what Steve releases is right near the very sweet spot of fidelity I need to bring out the best of my not the greatest recordings, and the ZROCK2 is the final absolution stage. For my needs it works excellently. If I just wanted to listen to only the very best recordings, or was able to have a treated room and pursue the nth degree of soundstage and holographic detail, sure, I'd be more inclined to have the very best parts and to modify further. But that's not ME. I want to listen to my private recordings of jazz from decades past I collected last century from collectors, and recordings made in less than stellar studios and circumstances because I love the music. I would also probably have different speakers than the HR-1s, cabling, etc. Finding Decware helped me to get to the heart of the recordings, and over the course of two decades I've really been able to pursue building a system that does what I want. . . and perhaps no more, as  more is not necessarily better for me.

There are others with ZROCK2s here who will chime in. I suspect you will find that they feel the component is transparent and very useful, if not essential. for the overall character of the sound of their systems. And I suspect one or two may want to follow the path of further modifications. I love how we're all different and that we have different goals, tastes, and needs. Also there's a lot of information from other posters in this thread and in other threads about ZROCK2 that you may not have yet investigated that you might find interesting.

Great link, been down that road with a lot of gear, sometimes it gets better sometimes just different and sometimes worse.

See, I also would like to actually use the bypass switch, I'm not comparing just because. There's a lot of music that sounds OK without EQ. In that case the bypass should sound exactly like the unit is not there. I mean I don't need hot fudge on everything all the time.

The caps, rca jacks, and possibly the bypass switch itself will be where I go first.

Like Archie I rarely engage the bypass switch at all. If I were living alone and could set my system up differently and have a freer hand with the gain controls on components I probably would use bypass more often.

But the beauty of the ZROCK2 is that it allows me great tonality in "compromised" settings. Worth a possible tiny loss of potential fidelity for me.

This thread did prompt me to play with my ZR2 in the bypass mode a bit and I definitely can hear a change in sound with the bypass switched to bypass and rotating the knob from full left to full right.  Full right seems to color the sound in an unwelcome way.  Full left seems to most neutral but I didn't disconnect the ZR2 to compare.

It seems that bypass is not the same as disconnected.  Since I don't run in the bypass mode, this is a non-issue for me.  The fact that sound is colored when the ZR2 is engaged is the whole point of the unit.

Guys, the point really is, what would it really sound like if it was not taking anything away?

The fact that any inline EQ colors the sound does not mean it should also take away something.

You're settling for the fact that a tube and the eq curve makes up for what it takes away, but in my system, so far, it does not.

It's just, different.

Then there must be something incredibly wrong with my system because I can clearly hear the difference when the unit is completely out, less imaging, more closed in sounding, less clarity/presence. It's not just a little.

It has been breaking in and I hear no change in that dept. It should enhance what's already there, not take something away then replace it with tube imaging and eq.

Damn resolution anyway.

Hi Lon, I understand you're OK with it, that's really OK. But that's not the issue.

Lon, best of luck to you as well.

Can we get back to the issue at hand?

Thank you.

It's not just me, 2 friends and family hear it as well, just to make sure I wasn't crazy, K?

You said you didn't actually do what I have done, i.e., take it out completely and really see what happens, how can you know?

Of course we don't have good memories, but it takes me < 30 seconds to switch mine out, I have no problems hearing the difference and it is repeatable.

If you have not done what I have done, and you do not have the system components that I have, I guess you're in no position to imply, maybe your system is not resolving enough to hear it, or, you're not going to f with it because you're sold, that's OK too.

Lon, you love it, we get it.

Can we get back to the issue I'm having? Please?

I've tried a NOS Mullard, a Philips labeled Mullard, RCA clear top, RCA black plate, and believe it or not an amperex bugle boy, also some misc 5963's.

These all have a different sound, yes, and they sound mostly as I expected they would.

But it didn't restore the imaging and purity I was getting before.

I think this thread is appropriate, as it directly affects whatever anyone is trying to achieve by modding the unit, as am I.

Cave,

I'm not 100% sure what the issue at hand is.  Running the unit in "bypass" vs no unit may impact the sound in a bad way.  No argument.  But are you saying that running the unit engaged vs no unit is also hurting the sound?  This seems impossible to check definitively.  I think what Lon and I (for sure) are saying is that what the unit brings to the table when engaged, far outweighs any degradation (if any exists) that may also occur.  Neither of us runs the unit in bypass.

I don't know what effect the different capacitors and upgrades might have.  If I'm correct, your unit had the film capacitors whereas Lon and my units have the type II beeswax caps and the full anniversary upgrades.

Am I still missing the point?