Yes,  knowing that you and others have had a time getting it to settle in helps my nerves a bit!  I think we're all so used to (and know) what great sound is, that when a new component like the ZR2-A is introduced and just doesn't immediately fit-in,  it unhinges us a bit,  :-/.  Glad to hear yours is finally there Lon and with your other tweaks is giving you what you want/need.   I can definitely hear the benefit at times,  just waiting on the consistency I guess.  Then let the tube rolling begin,

Since I put the Raytheon 5814a W-getter I also have experienced a bit of a roller coaster ride.  Tried the ‘off time’ and it definitely made a difference.  Did it again last night.

The ZR2 with the A mods has been settling down and while there’s no going back for me now, it has been somewhat unsettling.  It takes the Decware house sound in an altogether different direction, another plateau so to speak and this for me was unexpected.  Still rooted in the Decware house sound but not what I had become accustomed to.

Yesterday I walked over to the system to turn the volume up a notch, leaned over, started to clasp the volume knob on the CSP3 and froze in that position, getting my mind around what I was hearing.  One of the thoughts that ran through my head was “this must really look ridiculous”.

The sound seems to emanate from the air around the speakers and within a very large sound stage in a manner that is so like the way it would sound if the person or instrument was in the room.  This is not the same as “it’s here” or “I’m there”, it’s hard to describe.  Obviously no one is really in the room but the impression of that is so solid that it’s... unsettling.

As Lon said it’s resulted in a bit of playing around and I’ve decided to take one more step that I never thought I would.  I’ve now collected enough of the Raytheon 5814a W-getters to send a couple off for cryogenic treatment.  I found out that Gene at Take Five does that or has it done, and I have confidence in him so when I get the next pair off they go.  

I think that we’re more alike than different... “Shouldn’t have done it...but...

Same here!

After ~65-70 hours the caps seem to have bloomed. Not sure if there will be additional periods of funky, closed in sound but for the time being the sound quality is excellent.

Deep, black background to the music. Gobsmacking detail with tone to die for. My vinyl has never sounded so good. Hoping this isn't just a dream.😎

I am disconnecting the power cord at night per Lons' suggestion. This seems to be helping.

HK

Happy to report that my modded ZR2 with the Raytheon 5814a W getter is settling in very nicely, I’d say it’s ‘killer’ now and probably still has some more settling in to do.  A couple of ‘off’ periods helped a lot.

Next... CSP3 mods.  Love the looks of the new Anniversary Edition but don’t want to loose the headphone capability.  I can only add so many components.

Joman, I would like to try the 5814A but cannot find any information referencing the W-gitter. Can you steer me in the right direction.

Thanks, I’ll take a look. I’d like to try one in my Zrock.

Just got a new zock2, no cap upgrade (yet).

First thing I did, is hook it up using the bypass switch only, then removing the unit altogether to determine if the unit is truly out of the system when bypassed. I did this many times for comparison reasons. This is between Oppo player and preamp, for now.

There is noticeable difference with and without the unit, in my system. The only other difference would be the extra set of interconnects needed, which are only 2 ft and exactly the same build as my preamp to amps interconnects. (Neotech MKIII with Neotech connectors).

Because it is introducing loss of clarity and imaging, some dynamics, and that bit of closed in sound, I'll attribute that to needing break in time. Really in bypass mode there looks to be only some mogami cable plus the female RCA's, so it shouldn't really be noticeable unless something needs to settle in.

Any thoughts about this?

Thanks in advance.

Sure caps and a bit of wire, mostly the caps, specially if they're in the signal path, will change, we'll see. IME you normally get a pretty good idea after that first few hours, talking specifically caps & wire, but they will continue to change.

Maybe you should try what I did, since using the unit and adding the EQ curve does increase imaging and what not, it's sort of tough to tell if your original imaging and sonics are coming thru or not, see what I'm saying?

It's not just about ultimate transparency, when you have a great system, everything matters. For example, caps in the zrock. You would likely want better caps than stock, like the jupiters or even sonicaps. Parts matter.

It's just like cap and tube rolling, I know you're into that, right? It all matters. Most every single part inside the zrock matters, so something is causing the sound to behave as I described in bypass mode. If you think swapping a tube makes a difference, think what it could sound like if it truly only added EQ, and took away absolutely nothing else.

There's already been mods, tube, caps, even power cord, what if it was taken further with possibly a goldpoint attenuator, neotech hookup wire, bypass the bypass switch itself, furutech RCA's, etc., You get even closer.

Look at it like this. If you were able to modify the zrock to the point where it was very difficult to tell whether your system sounded the same with the unit completely removed and the bypass switch, think of what it could really sound like when you added the EQ.

I guess if Steve released upgrades like I mentioned, you would jump, (just like the cap mods), but coming from me, I get it, but we all know better parts normally = better sonics. I know it can do better, but hey if you're happy. You have to look inside the unit and understand how the signal path is being affected. I used to never question any manufacturer. But there's compromise in almost every design, you just have to understand it. BTW Jupiter makes great caps.  :-X

I understand how the unit works, and what you are saying. I do know there's always more one can do, I know what parts can do. You're new to posting here, and it's not that I'm shooting down your suggestion, it's just that I've been living with Decware components in my system since 1998 and have been watching and using developments in their gear for over two decades and have consolidated my approach and formed my own vision of what a system brings to my listening time. I have taken my ZROCK2s out of the system before, early on in their use, to help analyze and appreciate what they DO. And realize that I would not want to have a system without one. A tiny bit (after break in I'm sure you'll find that's all there really is) of a loss of ultimate transparency is not an issue for my system as it works so so very well.

And I've actually found in my listening world chasing the very best, most transparent, is not the best course for me. I honestly am in this hobby for music. I used to play, now I listen. I have thousands of discs and most are NOT wonderful sounding recordings. I find my systems need a little forgiveness, and in some ways the ZROCK2 in its configurations from the factory (I own one with no mods in a predominantly vilsual-based system as well) is almost like a father-confessor of sound, it allows me to have that bit of forgiveness needed. I'm not a DIYer so I'm not going to mod components myself, and usually what Steve releases is right near the very sweet spot of fidelity I need to bring out the best of my not the greatest recordings, and the ZROCK2 is the final absolution stage. For my needs it works excellently. If I just wanted to listen to only the very best recordings, or was able to have a treated room and pursue the nth degree of soundstage and holographic detail, sure, I'd be more inclined to have the very best parts and to modify further. But that's not ME. I want to listen to my private recordings of jazz from decades past I collected last century from collectors, and recordings made in less than stellar studios and circumstances because I love the music. I would also probably have different speakers than the HR-1s, cabling, etc. Finding Decware helped me to get to the heart of the recordings, and over the course of two decades I've really been able to pursue building a system that does what I want. . . and perhaps no more, as  more is not necessarily better for me.

There are others with ZROCK2s here who will chime in. I suspect you will find that they feel the component is transparent and very useful, if not essential. for the overall character of the sound of their systems. And I suspect one or two may want to follow the path of further modifications. I love how we're all different and that we have different goals, tastes, and needs. Also there's a lot of information from other posters in this thread and in other threads about ZROCK2 that you may not have yet investigated that you might find interesting.

Great link, been down that road with a lot of gear, sometimes it gets better sometimes just different and sometimes worse.

See, I also would like to actually use the bypass switch, I'm not comparing just because. There's a lot of music that sounds OK without EQ. In that case the bypass should sound exactly like the unit is not there. I mean I don't need hot fudge on everything all the time.

The caps, rca jacks, and possibly the bypass switch itself will be where I go first.

Like Archie I rarely engage the bypass switch at all. If I were living alone and could set my system up differently and have a freer hand with the gain controls on components I probably would use bypass more often.

But the beauty of the ZROCK2 is that it allows me great tonality in "compromised" settings. Worth a possible tiny loss of potential fidelity for me.

This thread did prompt me to play with my ZR2 in the bypass mode a bit and I definitely can hear a change in sound with the bypass switched to bypass and rotating the knob from full left to full right.  Full right seems to color the sound in an unwelcome way.  Full left seems to most neutral but I didn't disconnect the ZR2 to compare.

It seems that bypass is not the same as disconnected.  Since I don't run in the bypass mode, this is a non-issue for me.  The fact that sound is colored when the ZR2 is engaged is the whole point of the unit.

Guys, the point really is, what would it really sound like if it was not taking anything away?

The fact that any inline EQ colors the sound does not mean it should also take away something.

You're settling for the fact that a tube and the eq curve makes up for what it takes away, but in my system, so far, it does not.

It's just, different.

Then there must be something incredibly wrong with my system because I can clearly hear the difference when the unit is completely out, less imaging, more closed in sounding, less clarity/presence. It's not just a little.

It has been breaking in and I hear no change in that dept. It should enhance what's already there, not take something away then replace it with tube imaging and eq.

Damn resolution anyway.

Hi Lon, I understand you're OK with it, that's really OK. But that's not the issue.

Lon, best of luck to you as well.

Can we get back to the issue at hand?

Thank you.

It's not just me, 2 friends and family hear it as well, just to make sure I wasn't crazy, K?

You said you didn't actually do what I have done, i.e., take it out completely and really see what happens, how can you know?

Of course we don't have good memories, but it takes me < 30 seconds to switch mine out, I have no problems hearing the difference and it is repeatable.

If you have not done what I have done, and you do not have the system components that I have, I guess you're in no position to imply, maybe your system is not resolving enough to hear it, or, you're not going to f with it because you're sold, that's OK too.

Lon, you love it, we get it.

Can we get back to the issue I'm having? Please?

I've tried a NOS Mullard, a Philips labeled Mullard, RCA clear top, RCA black plate, and believe it or not an amperex bugle boy, also some misc 5963's.

These all have a different sound, yes, and they sound mostly as I expected they would.

But it didn't restore the imaging and purity I was getting before.

I think this thread is appropriate, as it directly affects whatever anyone is trying to achieve by modding the unit, as am I.

Cave,

I'm not 100% sure what the issue at hand is.  Running the unit in "bypass" vs no unit may impact the sound in a bad way.  No argument.  But are you saying that running the unit engaged vs no unit is also hurting the sound?  This seems impossible to check definitively.  I think what Lon and I (for sure) are saying is that what the unit brings to the table when engaged, far outweighs any degradation (if any exists) that may also occur.  Neither of us runs the unit in bypass.

I don't know what effect the different capacitors and upgrades might have.  If I'm correct, your unit had the film capacitors whereas Lon and my units have the type II beeswax caps and the full anniversary upgrades.

Am I still missing the point?

I'm not even sure that the bypass and the engaged modes are connected.  That's why I suggest that it's not possible to determine sound coloration of the unit.  Of course, I suppose that just using the dial to go from fully left to fully right might tell something.  Even there though, I'm not sure where the "bypass" point really is.  Steve says 12 o'clock but I think it's before that.

What we might need is the ZR2 circuit integrated into the amp so that some switches and wires can be avoided.

Some way to reduce the number of boxes.  I had to suspend my ZR2 over my amps since I'm out of shelf space!