Welcome, Guest. Please Login or Register
Decware Audio Forums
03/28/24 at 17:05:13 




Pages: 1
Send Topic Print
Opinions? TORII MK III vs ZMA (Read 9514 times)
EdGuY
Seasoned Member
****


Fact is just a solid
opinion.

Posts: 133
Opinions? TORII MK III vs ZMA
04/18/17 at 08:57:28
 
People who have jumped from Torii mk III to mystery amp, could you list here the pros and cons of your experiences, was it worth it or was the difference very marginal? Will you miss adjustsble TREBLE & BASS functions? How it works together with the CSP2+ preamplifier?

Thank you!
Back to top
 
 

Tannoy Prestige Canterbury GR,ST-300mg,IsoTek Aquarius EVO3,YARBO power.c,RGC-24,TORII MK3VCaps+silver wires+carbon resitors,CSP2+,DENON DP-A100+Karat17D3,GRADO PH-1,AURALiC Aries,GUSTARD X20-PRO ES9028PRO DAC,WA-Quantum chips,tubes WE 422A,GEC KT66,6N23P,USAF-596
  IP Logged
Lon
Seasoned Member
****


"Love without
guts is
worthless!"
Philip K. Dick

Posts: 23305
Re: Opinions? TORII MK III vs ZMA
Reply #1 - 04/18/17 at 12:42:16
 
Interesting question! I don't remember many here who did jump from the III to the ZMA but it would be interesting to hear the comparisons.

I thought many times of moving to the ZMA when I had some cash in the bank but decided I rely on the tone and bass controls so much, and enjoy the synergy of the Mk III and the HR-1s so much that I'll just keep that combo giving me pleasure.
Back to top
 
 

HR-1,ZTPRE,ZBIT,ZROCK2,SEWE300B,CSP3-25mod,Taboo MkIV;Rega RP3 all GrooveTracer mods;PSAudio:PST+DSD,P15,NPC,PowerBases,AC-12 pwr cbls,Reference spkrcbls;Mapleshade SamsonV3;VooDoo:Cremona+Amati interconnects, IsoPods; headphones:Sennheiser HD800S,ZMF Ori,Oppo PM1
  IP Logged
EdGuY
Seasoned Member
****


Fact is just a solid
opinion.

Posts: 133
Re: Opinions? TORII MK III vs ZMA
Reply #2 - 04/18/17 at 13:31:41
 
It's no wonder then that I could not find anything about this topic.

I'm also really happy with my Torii. Only thing I do not like is that it is not completely silent (as they say it is), when I compare it with my Vincent SP-331 MK :/ SP-331 MK is death silent between tracks even when your volume is at the full and your ear is close to the speaker. Silence is when you hear nothing from the speaker at any volume level (when there is no music playing).

If ZMA really is silent, it would be one very good reason to switch.
Back to top
 
 

Tannoy Prestige Canterbury GR,ST-300mg,IsoTek Aquarius EVO3,YARBO power.c,RGC-24,TORII MK3VCaps+silver wires+carbon resitors,CSP2+,DENON DP-A100+Karat17D3,GRADO PH-1,AURALiC Aries,GUSTARD X20-PRO ES9028PRO DAC,WA-Quantum chips,tubes WE 422A,GEC KT66,6N23P,USAF-596
  IP Logged
Lon
Seasoned Member
****


"Love without
guts is
worthless!"
Philip K. Dick

Posts: 23305
Re: Opinions? TORII MK III vs ZMA
Reply #3 - 04/18/17 at 13:52:52
 
I can hardly hear anything at all with my ear right by the speakers in the HR-1s. . . . So I don't have that complaint. (May be that if the HR-1s were more efficient I would hear more, or maybe it's the amp being plugged into my PS Audio P10?)

My reason to move would be that ever present audiophile problem of "Am I missing something?" But with my goal of making the most of my recordings sound eminently listenable on my system, and with the flexibility of the Torii MK III accomplishing that so well (especially with the tone controls and the rectifier tube rolling) I don't think I'm missing much at all. So I'm looking forward to the Mk III being my heartbeat well into the next decade.
Back to top
 
 

HR-1,ZTPRE,ZBIT,ZROCK2,SEWE300B,CSP3-25mod,Taboo MkIV;Rega RP3 all GrooveTracer mods;PSAudio:PST+DSD,P15,NPC,PowerBases,AC-12 pwr cbls,Reference spkrcbls;Mapleshade SamsonV3;VooDoo:Cremona+Amati interconnects, IsoPods; headphones:Sennheiser HD800S,ZMF Ori,Oppo PM1
  IP Logged
Archie
Seasoned Member
****




Posts: 2731
Re: Opinions? TORII MK III vs ZMA
Reply #4 - 04/18/17 at 17:36:40
 
My ZMA is not silent like it's not on but with my head against my HR1 and on my digital channel through my CSP3 it is darn close.  I get some hum from my ZP3 on the other channel.  I think the Brownian Motion of the air molecules causes some noise no mater what.   Tongue
Back to top
 
 

ZLC
Technics 1200G TT w/ Ortofon Jubilee MC cart
ZMC1
ZP3 (25th A Mods)
ZR2 (25th A Mods)
CSP3 (25th A mods)
ZMA (25th A mods)
Homemade Big Betsy Speakers (F15s)
Silver Cabling
DIY Isolation platforms under amps & TT.
  IP Logged
Palomino
Seasoned Member
****




Posts: 2474
Re: Opinions? TORII MK III vs ZMA
Reply #5 - 04/19/17 at 12:23:39
 
I have listened to both amps a fair amount.  I have a III and Lonely Raven has a ZMA.  He brings it over to my house a couple times a year and I have heard it each time I go to his house.  So I have heard it on a number of different systems/speakers as he and I have change configurations over the years.

I also recently heard a Torii Mk IV.  

If I had the money to spend on such things (and not multiple college educations) I would upgrade to a ZMA.  I believe it provides more musical detail and has enough head room for just about any speaker in the 89db+ range.  The descriptor "musical" is important here as I think this is the strength of the amp.  I can't speak to how silent it is, but it never bothered me at the listening position.

I didn't spend a lot of time with the MK IV, but I think it was closer to the ZMA than the III.  I had heard it several times before, but this last time, it struck me as being the most musical and involving.  Could have been the system or the songs but it was captivating.

Also, there is something to the treble/bass adjustments on the III that allow you to really dial it in for your particular speakers.  If you have or plan to experiment with single driver speakers, I would put these controls in the very desired category.

With all that said, the Torii is now my #2 amp.  I am running my Rachael with fairly efficient open baffles in a small treated room and its now wonderful.  It took over a year of fiddling, but now it sounds great.

I do intend to use the Torii in a second system with some Betsy based OBs in a much larger room where the headroom it provides is needed.

So the ZMA offers more value, but as always, you can get great value out of all the Decware amps in the right configuration/room.  But if I had the budget, I'd go with the ZMA.  It has the headroom and does a lot of things right in a multitude of situations.  I'd only hesitate is the rest of your system or speakers (single drivers) are "bright".  Then the III gets the nod on versatility.


Back to top
 
 

i7 Mac Mini with LPSU/SSD running Audirvana 3.5, Uptone Audio Regen on LPSU, Mytek Brooklyn DAC+, Ven Haus DIY Silver ICs, 25th Ann. Zen, PS Audio P5 Power Supply, PS Audio Power Cords, GR Research Speaker Wire, DIY Big Betsy and Crystal 10 Open Baffle Speakers
  IP Logged
EdGuY
Seasoned Member
****


Fact is just a solid
opinion.

Posts: 133
Re: Opinions? TORII MK III vs ZMA
Reply #6 - 04/19/17 at 13:16:17
 
Thank you Palomino, Lon & Archie!

I read a lot about ZMA lately from different surces around the internet and everyone say it's most musical amp ever heard. That's good because I like that, and I like to hear every single detail possible boosted with my ST-300mg super tweeters. But in addition to this I really really want my AMP to be silent when it should. According to my doctor I have hypersensitive hearing (both ears), all the excess noise interferes me badly. Therefore I do anything to my system for pure clean sound and to be quiet when it should. It makes me really mad that with DECWARE amplifiers I can not get 100% enjoyment. That is why I thought that maybe with ZMA it would have been possible 😕

Back to top
 
 

Tannoy Prestige Canterbury GR,ST-300mg,IsoTek Aquarius EVO3,YARBO power.c,RGC-24,TORII MK3VCaps+silver wires+carbon resitors,CSP2+,DENON DP-A100+Karat17D3,GRADO PH-1,AURALiC Aries,GUSTARD X20-PRO ES9028PRO DAC,WA-Quantum chips,tubes WE 422A,GEC KT66,6N23P,USAF-596
  IP Logged
stone_of_tone
Seasoned Member
****


Listen Often/Listen
Deep

Posts: 3217
Re: Opinions? TORII MK III vs ZMA
Reply #7 - 04/19/17 at 13:35:13
 
The ZMA is the most musical Amp you may ever hear = correct. It can drive as Palomino mentioned 89db sensitivity and up. Its versatility to drive my modified Acoustic Zen Adagio's + Tekton Design Impact + Decware DM947's coming tomorrow.....total paramount for me.

My ZMA is quiet for me..... . No inherent noise with ear to Speaker at idle. Just the usual lowest of level connection sound....that you find in any hookup albeit solid state or tube.

I have "the hyper" ear too Ed. Very important my Adagio's Tweeter's are exceptional and they are. The Mundorf MCap Supremes, brings a little emphasis out in them that is well received by my ears. The  DM947's are crossed up at 8k for the 8 inch driver/running pretty much full range.....this will bode well for that Tweeter on top. Competing against the Adagio folded Ribbon, would be to much for the 947's Tweet's at 4.5 and up....for my ear's....I've been spoiled by the Adagio's. .....the Tekton's SB Acoustic's are competent and still breaking in.... .  

I have owned: Torii III, SE84CS, Super Zen CKC & EL34 Mono's.
Decfest Pilgrimage: 2005 & 2008.




Listening Room:


Room Treatments from Michael Green & Home Brew

Sony as Transport (DVP-NS57P)

Illuminati D-60 Digital Coax IC

Shunyata Research Zitron Alpha Digital Power Cord to ZDSD
{Extremely Significant}

Decware ZDSD DAC / Recorder ++
***************************************************************
W/Steve's Output Transformer's/kicking to the Curb quite a few superb DAC'S!
***************************************************************
(@ -20 Ref Level, 0.0 Input volume and @ 16/192)


WBT-0102Ag RCA Kimber Select KS1030


Decware Zen Mystery Amplifier
~BIASED at *60* mA~
(NOS/Platinum/Mullard E188CC/7308's in my A12 an B12 Input positions Cryogenic~NOS/Platinum/Telefunken E88CC for Inverter Tubes~NOS RCA 0A3's & matched Quad/Tung-Sol KT66's)
ZMA adjusted at 20% to 30-40% max ~ from 0 Gain


***************************************************
Kimber Select KS6063 Speaker Cable 8ft WBT-0681-Ag Spades
***************************************************
Kimber 8TC new/white & clear jacket/to remind me of how fluid/timbre correct and good the KS6063 are!


Acoustic Zen Adagio - Black Pearl (Modified)
.....from 8ohm Taps.

Decware DM947 (Midrange modification)
w/PX Clarity Caps ......Duelund or Mundorf MCap Supremes pending

Tekton Design Impact
.....from 4ohm Taps.





Acoustic Zen Adagio's x-over's Modified/Full Range with Mundorf MCap Supremes-single Cap to each Tweeter/4.5k cross
(Gutted: 3kHz/18dB/Octave, Linkwitz/Riley Crossovers....with all crappy parts = gone)


XLO Pro Power Cord to ZMA
PS Audio P3 Power Plant / Pangea AC-9SE from wall to P3
(Transport and ZDSD, Regenerated/*120*~ Multiwave off...ZMA on High Current Output)

++ ZDSD DAC, kicked to the Curb: Auralic Vega, PS Audio PWT & PWD, PS Audio Direct Stream DAC, Chord Qute, NAD M51 (twice) & Schiit Yggdrasil.


~NOS Platinum Tubes from Upscale Audio/Kevin:

(Great Britain) Mullard 7308/E188CC ~  2 pair (both pair Cryogenic)
(Germany) Telefunken E88CC ~ 1 pair (painfully expensive/worth it)
(US/Great Britain) Ediswan CV2492/6922 ~ 2 pair (one pair Cryogenic)
(Hungary) Tungsram 6922/E88CC ~ 1 pair
(Hungary) Tungsram PCC88/7DJ8 ~ 1 pair.

From Cryoset:
(Russia) 6N23N/P-EB ~ 2 pair

(Russia) 6N23P's ~ 2 pair/came with ZMA.  
Back to top
 
 

Room Treats-M.Green & mine
Sony TPort
Illuminati D60
Shunyata Z-Alpha DigPcord
Decware ZDSD DAC
Kimber Select KS1030
XLOProPcord
Decware ZMA/25th Mods
Kimber Select KS6063
Acoustic Zen Adagio/Modified
Kimber PK10 Palladian from wall
to PS Audio P3
  IP Logged
EdGuY
Seasoned Member
****


Fact is just a solid
opinion.

Posts: 133
Re: Opinions? TORII MK III vs ZMA
Reply #8 - 04/19/17 at 15:19:38
 
Thank you SOT, special thanks for the detailed information 😃

With one thing I can't agree, there is a lot of amplifiers around that are totally silent at idle, for example my second amplifier at my studio Vincent SP-331 MK is, I really mean death silent (like unplugged, no humm, nothing comes from the speakers at idle). I have tried several times to replace Torii with Vincent (as reference), and silence arrives. Why I still use Torii? Because Torii is the only amp I get which sound I like or want to (with right tube combination).
Back to top
 
 

Tannoy Prestige Canterbury GR,ST-300mg,IsoTek Aquarius EVO3,YARBO power.c,RGC-24,TORII MK3VCaps+silver wires+carbon resitors,CSP2+,DENON DP-A100+Karat17D3,GRADO PH-1,AURALiC Aries,GUSTARD X20-PRO ES9028PRO DAC,WA-Quantum chips,tubes WE 422A,GEC KT66,6N23P,USAF-596
  IP Logged
stone_of_tone
Seasoned Member
****


Listen Often/Listen
Deep

Posts: 3217
Re: Opinions? TORII MK III vs ZMA
Reply #9 - 04/19/17 at 16:09:34
 
You stated:
"Why I still use Torii? Because Torii is only amp I get which I can get sound like I want to (with right tube combination)."

EXACTLY.
Back to top
 
 

Room Treats-M.Green & mine
Sony TPort
Illuminati D60
Shunyata Z-Alpha DigPcord
Decware ZDSD DAC
Kimber Select KS1030
XLOProPcord
Decware ZMA/25th Mods
Kimber Select KS6063
Acoustic Zen Adagio/Modified
Kimber PK10 Palladian from wall
to PS Audio P3
  IP Logged
Lon
Seasoned Member
****


"Love without
guts is
worthless!"
Philip K. Dick

Posts: 23305
Re: Opinions? TORII MK III vs ZMA
Reply #10 - 04/19/17 at 16:12:59
 
Well Ed, I recommend a call to Steve, he would be the best authority to answer as to whether the ZMA would fulfill that need.

I'm very sensitive to treble and hear way up into the high frequencies and I NEED the treble cut circuit that Steve puts in his amps. He says he can't put that in the ZMA, it's in the Torii and so I'm hanging with that. Luckily, like you, it gives me the sound I want!
Back to top
 
 

HR-1,ZTPRE,ZBIT,ZROCK2,SEWE300B,CSP3-25mod,Taboo MkIV;Rega RP3 all GrooveTracer mods;PSAudio:PST+DSD,P15,NPC,PowerBases,AC-12 pwr cbls,Reference spkrcbls;Mapleshade SamsonV3;VooDoo:Cremona+Amati interconnects, IsoPods; headphones:Sennheiser HD800S,ZMF Ori,Oppo PM1
  IP Logged
FarmBoss
Senior Member
***




Posts: 59
Re: Opinions? TORII MK III vs ZMA
Reply #11 - 04/20/17 at 02:35:31
 
I have never felt that the ZMA needed any adjustment to the treble or to the bass.  It is simply perfect.  By not having these controls it is actually a relief as I know that I am listening to the music as intended.

I find that with my Mini Tori I go back and forth with the setting and am never completely satisfied I have it right. I fiddle with it too much and over analyze the settings.  This takes away some enjoyment of just enjoying the music

Back to top
 
 
  IP Logged
SonicSeeker
Seasoned Member
****


Listening to the
music not the
equipment

Posts: 417
Re: Opinions? TORII MK III vs ZMA
Reply #12 - 04/20/17 at 03:56:28
 
Farm boss, I know what your saying I sometimes wish I had controls but I remember when I did and I was like you I could never seem to get it right, now I just listen to the music and it seems pretty darn right, of course some stuff is not right no matter what you have for controls.
Back to top
 
 



  IP Logged
Palomino
Seasoned Member
****




Posts: 2474
Re: Opinions? TORII MK III vs ZMA
Reply #13 - 04/20/17 at 14:19:34
 
Now that I have my OBs positioned well, my 807 tubes and Audirvana DSD playback, my digital music has lost most if not all of its edge.  That's what allowed my to move to Rachael with no controls.

I hear you on the fiddling with those controls but I have a couple of test songs and once I get them right I leave them alone.  Of course, you put in some new tubes and you need to recalibrate.  It's an amp for those that are not opposed to fiddling around.  It can be very rewarding.
Back to top
 
 

i7 Mac Mini with LPSU/SSD running Audirvana 3.5, Uptone Audio Regen on LPSU, Mytek Brooklyn DAC+, Ven Haus DIY Silver ICs, 25th Ann. Zen, PS Audio P5 Power Supply, PS Audio Power Cords, GR Research Speaker Wire, DIY Big Betsy and Crystal 10 Open Baffle Speakers
  IP Logged
Pages: 1
Send Topic Print