Forums - selector switch

meteoor

Verified Member

Posts: 22

selector switch
11/29/16 at 19:29:15

Hello everyone, I'm new here and probably missing something major so bear with me! I have a torii mkIII, ZP3 phono stage and 947 monolith speakers - used together for vinyl however at times, I'd like to run other digital sources through the same speakers (I've checked impedance compatibility).
If I use a selector switch for the various inputs (the 947 speakers being the output), and listening to an alternate input, I'd like to warm up the torii in anticipation of listening to vinyl later on. In that situation however, the selector switch is connecting the speaker load to another source and there would not be a load connected to the torii. Is this a danger to the torii as it might be to other tube amps?
Also, it seems that selector switches, having rca connectors aren't intended for this as both input and output would be best served with speaker wire and binding posts. I know - I could solder rca connectors to speaker wire but just wondering why my situation seems unusual enough that there aren't selectors available with binding posts!
And finally: should the selector switch be double pole? It seems to me that it would be better if the commons were isolated from each other.

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Lonely Raven

Seasoned Member

Jack of all Trades,
Master of None

Posts: 3567

Re: selector switch
Reply #1 - 11/29/16 at 19:46:11

First off, a tube amp should always have speakers connected - it's not healthy for it to see an open circuit.

That said, I think either I'm missing something, or you're overthinking this.

Why wouldn't you use the selector to switch between the digital source and your vinul source, and warm the Torii up by playing music through it from the digital source?

Or just do what I do and swap cables, since I like to have as few cables/connections as possible - I just unplug the RCA cables from one source, and swap in the cables from the other source.

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meteoor Verified Member Posts: 22	Re: selector switch Reply #2 - 11/29/16 at 20:56:26 Thanks for the reply Lonely Raven. The other digital sources have their own amplifiers and I'd like to leave that part of the equation alone.
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meteoor

Verified Member

Posts: 22

Re: selector switch
Reply #3 - 12/06/16 at 17:55:27

Hello everyone, following up on this - there are some excellent signal level selector switches but question of an output selector switch has plagued me for a long time: the output loads, a fail safe output connection on a tube amp (if that's necessary in all situations) and the advantage of using double pole switches (many signal level switches use a common ground).
I was able to get some great answers from Dr. LLoyd Peppard at Mapletree Audio, a retired professor of electronic engineering. My situation is apparently uncommon however, if you want to explore this, check out
https://hollowstate.netfirms.com/
I use 2 digital amps, one for my mac server and the other is a cocktail X12. The serious one is my Torii III fom Decware for vinyl. All three have their own uses!

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listening_room.jpg

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Lonely Raven Seasoned Member Jack of all Trades, Master of None Posts: 3567	Re: selector switch Reply #4 - 12/06/16 at 18:48:05 I am in awe of your speaker mounting solution! That said, I feel the drivers should be closer to the middle of the room (and ear level) for best sound. Any way you could flip those over?
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meteoor

Verified Member

Posts: 22

Re: selector switch
Reply #5 - 12/06/16 at 19:55:26

Lonely Raven, thanks for the message! Regarding the placement: I put the speakers on various posts, stools and temporary supports over a couple of weeks and came up with the position. The height is adjustable since the support rods are 3' long. Azimuth and elevation angles are also adjustable.
My favorite speaker position is with the midrange driver slightly above ear height but tilted down a few degrees. I often like to listen standing up!

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stone_of_tone Seasoned Member Listen Often/Listen Deep Posts: 3217	Re: selector switch Reply #6 - 12/06/16 at 19:58:42 In awe is right? So cool and the adjustment capability you mentioned, wow. Room treatment is your next thing, right?
Back to top	Room Treats-M.Green & mine Sony TPort Illuminati D60 Shunyata Z-Alpha DigPcord Decware ZDSD DAC Kimber Select KS1030 XLOProPcord Decware ZMA/25th Mods Kimber Select KS6063 Acoustic Zen Adagio/Modified Kimber PK10 Palladian from wall to PS Audio P3 IP Logged

meteoor Verified Member Posts: 22	Re: selector switch Reply #7 - 12/06/16 at 20:19:28 Yes, always. The room is the third instrument! It's under constant improvement. This view is from the perspective of the speakers. The transom has 13 spruce traps of my own design. The kitchen beyond has additional traps and sound panels. I'm thinking of putting 2 acoustic basses or cellos in the corners behind the speakers.
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meteoor Verified Member Posts: 22	Re: selector switch Reply #8 - 12/06/16 at 20:27:17 Spruce traps in kitchen. You can have a normal conversation with someone working in the kitchen from the listening room. This was my goal. The room acoustics went from horrible to outstanding after several years of tweaking things. When all is quiet, that's when things are really nice but I wanted a social environment too.
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stone_of_tone Seasoned Member Listen Often/Listen Deep Posts: 3217	Re: selector switch Reply #9 - 12/06/16 at 20:40:13 Very nice! Way more aesthetically pleasing room treatment, than my Listening Room. Very nice space! Once again meteoor, way cool on the adjustable speakers too.
Back to top	Room Treats-M.Green & mine Sony TPort Illuminati D60 Shunyata Z-Alpha DigPcord Decware ZDSD DAC Kimber Select KS1030 XLOProPcord Decware ZMA/25th Mods Kimber Select KS6063 Acoustic Zen Adagio/Modified Kimber PK10 Palladian from wall to PS Audio P3 IP Logged

Lonely Raven Seasoned Member Jack of all Trades, Master of None Posts: 3567	Re: selector switch Reply #10 - 12/07/16 at 05:04:17 Those are very lovely sound treatments. You called them absorbers, but are they diffusers? I love the adjust ability of your speakers; that makes sense now.
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meteoor

Verified Member

Posts: 22

Re: selector switch
Reply #11 - 12/07/16 at 13:32:02

Yes, I refer to them as traps. I'm not exactly sure what is happening on a physical level but I like sounds reflected off of wood (and stone). I dislike the sound of drywall. I wish I could afford lathe and plaster, which is superb. Although it's much better than nothing, I'm not crazy about foam and synthetic acoustic materials.

The idea was to increase wooden surface area so each trap has angled and channeled fins that increase surface area and resonate at different frequencies. Each trap has a footprint of one square foot but surface area 5 - 10 times that much. Bad sound reflections off of the transom have been completely mitigated.

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transom_traps.jpg

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meteoor Verified Member Posts: 22	Re: selector switch Reply #12 - 12/07/16 at 13:36:10 Here's a corner trap being built.
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Rraymond Seasoned Member Posts: 210	Re: selector switch Reply #13 - 12/07/16 at 14:47:41 Wow, very cool traps. So you are building them yourself? Looks like you could make a business out of making those, very stylish. I'd buy some!
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stone_of_tone Seasoned Member Listen Often/Listen Deep Posts: 3217	Re: selector switch Reply #14 - 12/07/16 at 14:52:00 I agree. If I did not have my separate man cave/listening room and had my Decware in my main living room....meteoor's and some of Steve's would only do.
Back to top	Room Treats-M.Green & mine Sony TPort Illuminati D60 Shunyata Z-Alpha DigPcord Decware ZDSD DAC Kimber Select KS1030 XLOProPcord Decware ZMA/25th Mods Kimber Select KS6063 Acoustic Zen Adagio/Modified Kimber PK10 Palladian from wall to PS Audio P3 IP Logged

maddog07

Seasoned Member

seeker of truth

Posts: 590

Re: selector switch
Reply #15 - 12/09/16 at 18:56:24

I too had always heard not to have a tube amp on, with no speakers connected - have heard this stated regarding solid state amps as well.

Looking for "the answer" to this question, I posed the "tube amp on with no load" question directly to the Zenmaster Steve himself, specifically regarding my Torii. His words, it's OK to turn it on, with no speakers connected to it - just turn the input attenuator all the way down. I've had this Torii about 3 years - It is routinely "warmed up" or kept "warmed up" with no speakers connected to it, and I've experienced no adverse effects or issues to date. I think "some" amps may have an issue with no load - but Steve says the Torii will not suffer from this.

I routinely warm my Torii up, or keep it warm, when A/B'ing other amps, with no speakers connected to it. Every time our little local audio society gathers, we almost always are auditioning different gear and combinations of gear - so in the interest of "time" it's essential to keep stuff "warmed up" and ready to be swapped into the listening system at any minute.

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Decware Torii MK3, Theta Digital Miles, RME ADI Dac-2 FS, Aesthetix Calypso, Martin Logan Vista, Audio Nirvana 12's & 15's, Betsy WOW/AMT's, Hawthorne Trio's, PS Audio PW P5, Goertz, Kimber, Nordost, Decware and DIY wires, PSA pwr cords, Cary SLI-80 Sig.

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meteoor Verified Member Posts: 22	Re: selector switch Reply #16 - 12/09/16 at 21:01:20 Maddog07, thanks for the research into this. Yes, that makes perfect sense. I think for my own part, I'll try to not have the amp running without a speaker load but In the event that it happens (due to particularities of my set up) I'd always have the input attenuator all the way down anyway. Good to know!
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4krow Seasoned Member IMAGINE WHIRLLED PEAS Posts: 1666	Re: selector switch Reply #17 - 12/18/16 at 03:01:09 Funny how I have noticed a problem created by a transom in a local coffee shop. It makes conversation so impossible that I go to the other coffee shop. Everyone complains about the acoustics, but the reply has always been to turn up the 'music'.
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meteoor

Verified Member

Posts: 22

Re: selector switch
Reply #18 - 12/19/16 at 00:53:26

Yes, It drives me crazy how bad the sound is in some public places but it can be changed so that a normal conversation is possible while listening to surrounding music and background noise. Most people don't realize this, at least consciously. I'll bet the local coffee shop you mentioned would recover the costs of the sound treatment in added revenues within a year.

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