Does anyone have experience with Reference 3A speakers?  If so, can you please share your thoughts?

Stone...let me know what you discover about Reference 3A's.  Are you convinced MTM is the way to go?  The Nefe's seem to be huge speakers, but if one wants scale...  

BTW...I have always enjoyed Acoustic Zen's and I'm glad you are enjoying yours...sans crossover, which other's have felt is the weak point in those speakers as well...

Hi Scott,

Do you have the version with the super tweeter or the latest model with the Be tweeter?

How would you describe the Decware + Ref3A sound overall?

How would you compare versus other speakers you have heard with your Decware amp?

I wouldn’t say these speakers are high efficiency, but they apparently have a relatively flat impedance curve.  Do you ever run out of steam with the Torii?  
-What size room do you have these speakers in?
-Do you need the pre-amp?  
-Do you have any experience running your source direct to the Torii (w/o a pre-amp)?

Any watch outs you can think of?  For example, it was noted in some reviews that maybe they aren’t the best option for nearfield listening.

Thanks for your help.

Dave

Thanks so much Scott.  Your information is very helpful.

I am currently running my DAC direct into a ZMA, which drives a pair of MG944 speakers.  It's nice that one of your previous reference points was the MG944's.  

I have been on the quest to upgrade my speakers for quite some time now.  At this point I am considering Decware HR-1's, Ref 3A, Vaughn, Acoustic Zen and Zu Audio.  I think I would include the JansZens if they were more efficient, or I was going to use them in a smaller room.  My current room is about 13x25.  

Also nice to know that the Ref 3A's got you off the merry go round.  

Thanks again.  

Dave

Matchstickman…good question.   I will try to describe based on my experience with different speakers, not all in my room.  

First, please refer to my thread on how kick ass the ZMA/MG944 combo is, because it is.  It’s a very raw, dynamic sound and I love it.   The combo is also very musical and the bass is great, although I do run a sub which makes the overall experience that much better.    

https://www.decware.com/cgi-bin/yabb22/YaBB.pl?num=1396891287

I had some Zu speakers in my room not too long ago and I miss some of what they do, especially when I’m sitting in the sweet spot.  There is a relaxed nature to the Zu’s that allows me to settle in and listen for longer periods of time.  I notice this in my body language while listening.  With the MG944’s I will tense up and I’ll notice it with my hands mostly.  With the Zu’s I just got lost in the music.  

The Zu’s disappeared better, had greater depth and more of a holographic sound.  

That said, the Zu’s I listened to lacked the detail I am used to with the MG944’s.  They could also be a little harsh/beamy in the highs.  The Zu’s also didn’t have the fantastic bass of the MG944’s.

I have heard Acoustic Zen speakers on multiple occasions, although not in my room.  I find these speakers to be very musical and they always draw me in to the music.

I remember the first time I heard Brandford Marsalis’s “The Nearness of You” from the album Trio Jeepy on the Acoustic Zen’s.   I felt like Branford was standing in the room playing his saxophone to me.  Timbre was natural, and the image seemed life sized.   The sound was detailed, musical, engaging, etc.  The MG944’s don’t deliver the same natural timbre and tone as the Acoustic Zen’s.  They also don’t have the same life size in the room imaging.    

So I think I’m looking for speakers that are bit more neutral sounding, disappear better, have better depth, holographic imaging and are every bit as musical and detailed, and have similar quality of bass as the MG944’s.  

I’m really not asking for much…

"The sound was detailed, musical, engaging, etc.  The MG944’s don’t deliver the same natural timbre and tone as the Acoustic Zen’s.  They also don’t have the same life size in the room imaging."

I heard the MG944's at Decware in 2005 and 2008 and agree. I have also had Zu's in.....not in the league of the Adagio's..... .

As you stated Dave....you know. There are two pair available used on AgoN right now.
https://www.audiogon.com/listings?utf8=%E2%9C%93&global_search_text=Acoustic%252...

My Adagio's I bought new from Kevin at Upscale for $3900 delivered. I wanted new to burn in myself. I spent 6 months with them and the original x-over's. As you know/very good and easy to drive as well..but, looking at how my old Parker's were wired full range MTM's and caps to tweeter's?

.....I went on my quest to have them done:
Acoustic Zen Adagio's x-over's Modified/Full Range with Mundorf MCap Supremes-single Cap to each Tweeter/4.5k cross
(Gutted: 3kHz/18dB/Octave, Linkwitz/Riley Crossovers....with all crappy parts = gone)

.....and not lose the great impulse response of the Transmission Line Bass. My guy Joe/Midwest Speaker/Roseville....swept them....capped them with the correct value/my choice of caps (Mundorf Mcap Supremes) to go with the great German built (Mr. Lee designed driver's)....and the rest is history. The Ribbon Tweeter's are designed and built by Mr. Lee in S. California. Transmission Line Cab's to his spec's in Asia/finely finished.

The Transmission Line impulse response bass and   +   as you described and I reprinted your impressions in quote above......I am done shopping for Speaker's.

The coherency of these Speaker's NOW is off the chart's. Highly recommended and the Mod of course.

I keep the original x-over's on the shelf next to me....and chuckle. ....and yes, these x-over's even by Mr. Lee, were stated to need an upgrade. Some just put in another get in the way, albeit better part's x-over's (some expensive xtreme mod I think it was called).....but not what I did to them. I went the way of MG944 and Parker's (different cap point obviously).....it paid off.


I'm Listening right now to Rit's House with my Ediswan's in the inputs.....absolute bliss. It is hard to take my E188CC Mullard's out...but the Edi's have there place too.....today.


PS ~ the Adagio's turn up on AudiogoN periodically....from the Audiophile Nervosa crowd....that would NOT have a clue how to get the most out of them (sans x-over's).
.....or even at stock .......get the most out of them with a Decware ZMA   .....EE crowd types/they don't listen with their ears.  


stone of tone (Timbre)....is no idle moniker for me..... .






Listening Room:


Room Treatments from Michael Green & Home Brew

Sony as Transport (DVP-NS57P)

Illuminati D-60 Digital Coax IC

Shunyata Research Ztron Alpha Digital Power Cord to ZDSD
{Extremely Significant}

Decware ZDSD DAC / Recorder ++
***************************************************************
W/Steve's Output Transformer's/kicking to the curb quite a few superb DAC'S!
***************************************************************
(@ -20 Ref Level, 0.0 Input volume and @ 16/192)


WBT-0102Ag RCA Kimber Select KS1030


Decware Zen Mystery Amplifier
~BIASED at *60* mA~
(NOS/Platinum/Mullard E188CC/7308's in my A12 an B12 Input positions Cryogenic~NOS/Platinum/Telefunken E88CC for Inverter Tubes~NOS RCA 0A3's & New Quad of Tube Depot Stealth/Tung-Sol KT66's)
ZMA adjusted at 20% to 30-40% max ~ from 0 Gain


***************************************************
Kimber Select KS6063 Speaker Cable 8ft WBT-0681-Ag Spades
***************************************************


Acoustic Zen Adagio - Black Pearl (Modified)
.....from 8ohm Taps.






Acoustic Zen Adagio's x-over's Modified/Full Range with Mundorf MCap Supremes-single Cap to each Tweeter/4.5k cross
(Gutted: 3kHz/18dB/Octave, Linkwitz/Riley Crossovers....with all crappy parts = gone)


XLO Pro Power Cord to ZMA
PS Audio P3 Power Plant / Pangea AC-9SE from wall to P3
(Transport and ZDSD, Regenerated/*120*~ Multiwave off...ZMA on High Current Output)

++ ZDSD DAC, kicked to the Curb: Auralic Vega, PS Audio PWT & PWD, PS Audio Direct Stream DAC, Chord Qute, NAD M51 (twice) & Schiit Yggdrasil.


~NOS Platinum Tubes from Upscale Audio/Kevin:

(Great Britain) Mullard 7308/E188CC ~  2 pair (both pair Cryogenic)
(Germany) Telefunken E88CC ~ 1 pair
(US/Great Britain) Ediswan CV2492/6922 ~ 2 pair (one pair Cryogenic)
(Hungary) Tungsram 6922/E88CC ~ 1 pair
(Hungary) Tungsram PCC88/7DJ8 ~ 1 pair.

From Cryoset:
(Russia) 6N23N/P-EB ~ 2 pair

(2 pair from Steve ~ stock).

?

I should not be so critical of the Zu's. I had a pair of Zu Unions in that they ended up discontinuing. Good service with freight to and from paid for by Zu. Call tagged on the pickup from my house.

Yeah the impedance ..... All I know is that the mod worked. Drivers up to 4500 and cap on up. Tweets were to low at 3k originally and had Joe scratching his head.

PM your number and I will text you pic's of the x-overs I took out and the layout of what's in them now.
I had no worries yanking them out. If it did not pan out I would have come up with another modification with my guy Joe or just had him install retro them back to original.

I might see if LR and Palomino will have me down with my Adagio's, KS1030 IC, KS6063's and Shunyata Alpha Digital power Cord. They have the other stuff we need. I would bring my stash of NOS Platinum 6922 tube types too.



I would buy the red pair on AgoN..... But I want Steve's new UFO SE84 Mono's.....some time next year if I can swing it.