I also found this in an old email from Randy:

Hi Tom,


Here are the inductor values I have tried with one Alpha driver and two wired in parallel -


Alpha (8 ohm) as bass driver

106 HZ 12 mH

127 HZ 10 mH

182 HZ 7 mH

212 HZ 6 mH

255 HZ 5 mH

318 HZ 4 mH

635 HZ 2 mH



Alpha (4 ohm) as bass drivers (2 wired in parallel)

53 HZ 12 mH

63 HZ 10 mH

91 HZ 7 mH

106 HZ 6 mH

128 HZ 5 mH

159 HZ 4 mH

318 HZ 2 mH

I made a couple of boxes (one for each channel) that lets me swap inductors on the fly for testing purposes ..... which works well to tune them to your system and room.

I would love to hear your thoughts on how the AEs continue to sound compared to the Big Betsys as you experiment with higher crossover points.

Why I am asking is I am considering putting the Crystal 10s in Steve's largest baffle design, with a support woofer and to start with I would get some Hypex FA122 plate amps to power them and manage a crossover via dsp.  Then over time I grow the rest of my system to get Zen amps, new DAC, etc....

So ideas for a woofer (some a bit crazy):
*  AE LO-15
*  AE Dipole-15
*  Ciare 12NDH-4
*  Faital Pro 15PR400
*  F-15??
*  Another pair of Crystal 10s low passed at 200hz with the main pair running full range untouched.

Anyway things I am contemplating....  I really liked the sound of the Crystal 10s.

With what I am up to yes.  I would need to talk to John at AE to understand the differences between the Dipole and LO series and then what sounds different between the 15" and 18".  I don't want to get too heavy of a cone and lose detail and articulation in the bass - if that is possible.  I am not an expert in this at all and would talk to John for his advice.

I expect that does become more and more of a challenge as driver diameter increases.

Well, I took the plunge and bought some Crystal 10s.  I have sold most of my old equipment so I have some funds to play with.

For break in, and until I figure out the baffle, I rear mounted them in my existing baffles.  This is not optimal as they have a 1 ½” tunnel to project through but fine for now.  The AMT tweeter is not connected.

They have no bass because they are in a 12” baffle and haven’t broken in yet.

I am using the new Crown to run the AELO15s.  What I love about the new Crown is you can adjust the xover on the fly and hear it as you go.  With the older model crown, you have to adjust and then set it before you can hear the outcome.  The new Crown also has many more xover settings.  So right now, due to the lack of bass I am crossing at 200hz.  I tried higher and lower and it either got muffled or the middle was too thin,

The Crystal 10s, as mentioned elsewhere are a very refined driver.  Early on it seems I have picked up some detail, but mostly, it refines the sound.  Very good separation of instruments, precise and thus far show promise to be musical.  Combined with the AE woofer, this is clearly the most refined speaker I have put together.

My thinking is after seeing Randy’s latest two-driver Betsy at the fest is to do something similar in a medium Betsy shaped baffle.  Maybe as tall as the big Betsy's but perhaps not as wide so they don’t overwhelm the room like the Big Betsey’s do visually.  

I love the hardwood look and sound so I will probably stick with what I used in my Big Betsy’s.  I am interested in Steve’s comments about his Baltic birch as I have several pieces leftover in the garage.

Awesome Tom! You've put your equipment money to good use. Will be interested to read your future impressions.

Will do.

i was surprised to see that this thread has over 168,000 views.  So there are some people out there that appear to be interested in seeing where this ends up.  Either that or they are waiting for the train wreck to happen

I’ll add, look for used butcher block remnants, counters, tables, etc. often people are “updating” their dining table/set these tables sell fairly inexpensively.

Also, see IKEA. If you live within distance of an actual store, they usually have decent options for larger baffles in the Scratch and Dent area.

So - you have both the F15s and the Crystal 10's now.  What about using the F15s as a bass driver for the Crystal 10s given we all the love the hit and impact of the F-15s?

Well the AE LO15s go on my list then.  I will start with some 15" GRS woofers at parts express for $30 that are suppose to be pretty decent.

Pal, which model Crown amp are you using?

Geno, that bass driver is already in the hands of a member on a different forum and they are 15” drivers with (reportedly) a dual voice-coil, they have HUGE magnets on them and weigh a ton!

Not sure of the forums protocol here and want to be respectful and appropriate. You are welcome to PM me if you have interest and I’ll point you to them.

I think of Hawthorne Angie’s as power, 15As as speed and tone. AE is a combination of both plus detail.  

Another bass driver I have heard several times but could never get a good handle on are pure audio projects 15” bass drivers.  I think they are manufactured by Eminence but different magnet structure than the 15A.  To me they sounded like the 15A so I couldn’t justify the extra cash.

In terms of price to performance ratio, the 15A is hard to beat.  I think it’s why it’s been so popular for so long.

I have a pair of 15As sitting fresh in their boxes. Do you suspect I’ll need them to supplement the F15s in a medium birch ply baffle? That may make for some “creative” placement considerations.

Roger that.

Interesting comparison of 15 inch speakers.
Could someone comment on the difference of sound between Neodymium magnet and ferrite?
I see some makers offer both on their 15". The neo usually play to a higher frequency. This makes me suspect they would be clearer, is it so?

Thanks, Brian

Thanks Geno.  Wow, that really looks like an AE woofer.

How efficient is it???

Pal, not sure, but evidently, designed for open baffle use.

Over The Rainbow / If I Only Had A Brain - Tuck Andress

Album - Reckless Precision

One of my YouTube, fell down the rabbit hole, bouncing around, discoveries. I've figured out how to save the audio for YouTube videos. Quite a few are top quality - as good as my HD files.

How are the Crystal 10s coming along?

I went with the Fast 10's in a slightly different configuration, based on the fact the Fast are currently half the price of the Crystal. According to Lii, on their FB group, the Crystal are slightly better in the top end, but considering my hearing only goes to about 14khz, it's not a problem.

I'm also using a Crown for low end, albeit the older XLS1000. I used the built in low pass function for a bit, but have now decided to go with a MiniDSP 2x4 instead, so as to limit the Fast 10's to slightly higher than their natural roll off. I'm running the Fast down to 100hz with a Bessel crossover, and a pair of Dayton Ultimax UM10's up to 160hz with the same. The Ultimax will be enclosed in a vented slot enclosure, while sharing the rather different baffle I shaped. I went with the butcher block idea using the inexpensive European birch ones from Home Depot. I also rear mounted them with a simple 3/4" bevel. I'm not hearing any problems running them with a 1-1/2" depth.
Here's a bad pic of the full baffles, sans enclosures as of now, and a beauty shot of the Fast.
https://imgur.com/duhpFCT
https://imgur.com/eMhUy7z

Palo,
Will you need any help sanding? I sure do like to sand.

Weeeeell, supposedly, the butcher block slabs I got from HD are "hardwood". I used a friends garage to jig out the holes, and he stated that, while they were perfect for my purposes, they were the softest "hardwood" he's seen in some time. But that's what they are advertised as. I actually have some reclaimed 100+ year old black walnut, but there are some problems with it that I wasn't willing to address at this time.

Balsa is a hardwood - so a hardwood doesn't necessarily mean it's hard, but instead it has to do with the structure...which is typically broad leaf and uses vessels to transport water and nutrients throughout the wood.