I have a Torri Mk3 with 16ohm taps feeding 16ohms ZU Superflys with the upgraded drivers, caps and tweeters. Amazing combo.

I recently put in the Brimar 5R4GY's, which I am keeping in the amp forever!  Outstanding vocal's.  But, the problem is now my 6N1P (really nice ones) don't have enough drive and cause to amp to distort way too early.

The only 6922's I have on hand are Gold Lions which are way too harsh. And some Upscale Audio's National 7DJ8's (Japanese) which do sound great for $30 tubes. But nothing that makes you go wow. I could easily live with them, but will always wonder if I am missing out. So now I need to get some good 6922/6DJ8/7308/PCC88.

What you you recommend? I don't want to go over $100 per tube.

I am looking at:

Brimar Ediswans ($60 per tube)
Premium NOS 6H23P-EB's ($60 per tube)
Philips Heerlen Holland PCC88 - Dish getters, triangle delta codes DJH delta0G1, ($75 per PAIR)

Any other options?

I would really appreciate your feed back.

Thanks Mark! Your right, seems to be quite a few on eBay.

Thanks guys.  Looks look I could swing getting a pair of Amperex 7308's.

Orange,  I'd like to add that the Amperex White label, often with the Bugle Boy logo, 6DJ8s can be very nice.  I have a pair of Omega Alincos in my second system that I now rarely use...I like my Zu Audio Souls better.  But I digress, with the Omegas I would often replace a pair of 7308s that I ran with the Souls, for the 6DJ8s.  They seemed to tone down the highs nicely which are a bit much for me with the Omegas.  The 6DJ8s have the "Amperex" sound but with a bit less detail/focus than the 7308s...I found it an excellent match for the Omegas hot tendencies.

The reason this came to mind this morning is because I just put in a recently purchased pair of the Amperex 6DJ8s...one is a 1961 Bugle Boy, the other is unlabeled and I forgot to look for the etched codes before putting it in my Zen Signature Monoblocks.  I'm running the Zu Audio Souls and they sound fantastic. I know you can get these for $15 or less each all day long...so for 30 bucks I suggest trying them out, especially if the Tweeter on your Zu Super Flys is a bit hot for you.

I might add that I have used and liked the Russian 6n1p-EVs and like them...currently I have a 60's triple mica version in the outputs of my CSP3...the input is a Holland made Amperex white label 6922.

So I guess my bottom line is don't get too hung up about thinking more expensive is better.  It all depends on your speakers, associated gear and tubes; and most important, your personal preference...a $15 tube may be the ticket to audio nirvana.  Mark.

Orange, have you read "Joe's Tube Lore"?  I found his opinions a great starting point. Keep in mind this is one man's opinion in his personal gear with his preferences.  I have found I agree with a lot of it but I have found some tubes he didn't rate highly to be very good in my opinion...for example the RCA black plate triple mica 5814 in the 12AU7 spot of the ZP3 are my favorites but weren't in Joe's chosen few.  Here it is below.  It's enjoyable to read even if your preferences are different.

Also keep in  mind this was written in the 90's so the tube prices are usually way out of date.  Enjoy,  Mark.

http://www.audioasylum.com/scripts/d.pl?audio/faq/joes-tubes.html

I used to drive the SE34I.2 with a pair of 6n1p´s (I also tried 6n2p´s but these never really worked for me). 6n23p´s just fit in my system better all over, from bottom to top, it was a great finding!

I could not use 6N1Ps in my MkIII ever for this same reason....early distortion.

Don't know about the matching Amperex based on date. But I would not necessarily trust this anyway, as many "NOS" tubes test as NOS, but are pulls...used, and they may have different use!

Also,  in my MKIII, I found most 6922s a little too hard and articulate compared to 6DJ8/7DJ8, with more defined edges and less texture than I liked. So depending on the rest, I almost always used PCC88 or ECC88. Whereas, the MKIV (here anyway) can use about any input with the right tube set, being really good here with many E88CC/6922/7308 types. I am loving some Phillips SQ pulls in the MKIV now with warmish, spacious, Mazda (Mullard-like construction) GZ32s.

Though I had NOS Russian paper in oil caps in the MKIII and Jupiters in the MKIV, I think other circuit changes make the MKIV different in how it sounds with inputs. This is not to say the American Amperex 7308 will not be good with your V-capped MKIII, the early 60's pair I have tend to be really smooth and natural sounding tubes, but I did not use them much in the MKIII. The moral being, every amp makes a tube a little different, so the traits Joe talks about are pretty real if I recall correctly, but his ultimate choices may not be yours depending on the vast complexity of our systems and how each part contributes to the sound.

And the rectifier can make a huge difference in this equation, so hard to say...but I almost always used PCC88s in the MKIII. I also found the Nationals too predictable, with less character than many PCC88s. Though having PCC88 traits, they are a bit more "normal" sounding than many, having an even, warmish, somewhat 6922 vibe, though having decent texture.

The highlights of 7DJ8/PCC88 to me are generally, a good sense of power, but with open spaciousness, good extension and texture, and a little less bass than 6922s....depending on system/room, making the bass seem more articulate.

So maybe give the Nationals and the Gold lions a good listen knowing they may not be your first choice of the type, but indicating traits, and go from there. Might lead you one way or another. 623NP are more in the 6922 range and can be nice too. 6DJ8/ECC88 are generally closer to 7DJ8 with a bit less sense of power compared to 6922, and associated, a bit less articulate edge definition, the ECC88/6DJ8 being more spaciousness and textured, with usually less bass extension...Your old standard, 6N1P, are closer to 6DJ8s, and the above mentioned early 60's Bugle Boys can sound pretty close to nice 7DJ8s.

My favorite PCC88s in the MKIII where probably early 60s Miniwatts, I think Heerlin made by the look of them. The 7DJ8 type was in my MKIII by far more than the other types in my system/room and with my love of the "player in the room" sound. Somehow, here, they were more consistently good in my MKIII than ECC88 or E88CC.

Thanks Will, I always appreciate your feedback.

When I put the Brimar 5R4GY's, I knew they would never leave my amp. I was lucky to get a really nice quad, and so hopefully I will not be looking at rectifiers again for along time. No flashing when turing on the amp, and they are dead quiet. I love the sound so much that I am building the amps sound around them.

I love my regulators and output tubes. The last link that needs to fit is the input tubes.

Due to the darker, lusher side of the Brimar's, I am not afraid to try more exotic 6922,7308's. I due need super quiet tubes as my Zu's are so sensitive. The Philip's Holland tubes are confusing to me. I see so many of various price ranges. What exactly would you recommend?

Thanks hi tubes, but I am done with Upscale. Too pricey and at times unwarranted hype. He refuses to ship economically to Canada, and I get dinged with import charges. Also, at this point I want something a bit more exotic then the Pope/Bugle boys. Especially if I going to live with them for the next many years!

The more expensive tend to be made in one of the better quality factories in europe during a time period where the quality was at a premium.

JD

So Orange,  did you bid on some of the Amperex 7308s on ebay that ended yesterday?  I saw the two pairs sold for reasonable prices.  Those were very nice white labels.  I should point out that almost all Amperex 7308s you'll find will be made in the USA  in New York.  They are very good and comparable to European Amperex 7308s from what I've read...same goes for the 6922s. Now the Bugle Boy or white label 6DJ8s are European made and the best sounding do seem to be made in Holland...with delta in the date code. Looks like a good testing pair of white label 60's Amperex 7308s or 6922s will run between $110 and $80....my prior prices were a bit low.  I have bought singles for less from less "professional" sellers...always a risk.  The matched pair I bought from a  Decware member cost me $125...it's reserved for the Torii. My Zen Signature mono blocks and CSP3 can use unmatched tubes...so I buy good deals. Let us know what you do.  Mark.

The 5670 is compatible? I remember seeing those on iFi site. I thought trans-conductance was way lower.

Orangecrush : Quote:


Impossible to guess what to recommend without specific sound preferences based upon what you think of the sound of other tubes in your particular configuration and where you would like it to go. For example, if the 6N1P is good sound for you other than distortion....or do you want more texture, openness, or smoother highs, or deeper or less bass....

Also, I know you have worked hard to get your sound where you like it, and not everything "great" is going to fall into synergy with that. The 60s American Amperex white label PQ 7308 is a really good tube, as are the 60s 6922.

I just listened to my 63-4 7308 PQs and Green Globe 6922 not sure the date but I think later 60s. The sound is very similar, warmish, smooth, and soft on top, though clear. The PQ does do it all a bit more, a bit deeper bass, clearer space/black, actually sounds louder and a little faster/more dynamic...The Green Globe is closer turned up a bit, but the PQ/7308 in direct comparison sounds like a better grade or make tube. Neither would I consider "exotic" in this particular tube set where the MKIV and CSP3 are on the warm side, I think due mostly to the Mullard/Mazda GZ32s in both amps, and a quite domineering tube, a warm and powerful Telefunken E88CC in front the CSP3, with some warmish early 60s Sylvania 6922 gold pins for power. Context!

The Phillips Heerlin SQs are variable too. I am not sure of actual dates of the later one again, but my 63 pair is less good to me than my later 60's pair and the two are surprisingly different sounding, though construction looks exactly the same (as is the case with the Amer. 7308 and 6922 I have).... Like the American tubes, the Phillips both give the sense of a very nicely made and good sounding tube. To me the later one reflects the sound qualities of the earlier, but is more open/neutral than the earlier which is, and always has been, too warm for me. The earlier one is the more sought after tube, also a touch warmer than the American 7308.

I would not mistake still being relatively available with sonic quality for PCC88s or Bugle Boys. The 7DJ8 are even now still just gaining popularity and Bugle Boys were made by the gazillions. The old stalwarts have reasons for being popular and expensive, but they may or may not be the ticket for that particular sound you like! I would not use either of the the above super tubes in this current setting, preferring the later copy of the Phillips SQ, some near NOS testing "pulls" I got for like 70 for the pair delivered from eastern Europe. They are like a clearer, more neutral version of the Amer. 7308 with more top extension.

For kicks I put in some Haltron labelled PCC88s. They have stamped getter risers...maybe Siemens???. In this setting, for midrange clarity without pain, I would take it over the big names above but the bass is a little more mushy with this particular set. Some Phillips PCC88s open things up another notch, but still smooth in this tube set, and the bass deep and tight.

It is all context. There is no doubt the American 7308s are very nice tubes. I use them most in the front of the CSP3 with more open tubes in the power position. It all depends on too many variables of room, cables, power, source, vibration etc. And if you look here at the guys most into Amer Amperex 7308s, like Mark and Lon, I think you will find a thread of aversion to upper end articulation and often associated preference for warmth, reflecting the warm smoothness of the tube, but also why I don't tend to use it as a Torii input. I seem to like mixing and matching these days...open inputs and more warmth elsewhere giving that precious live feel without pain.

I hope you get lucky and find that magic input! I much prefer having choices than trying for one perfect tube. Actually, for me I don't think the perfect tube set can exist since I have enough tubes of all types to change the context and I really love being able to do this...to change to different flavors of beautiful, shifting my musical experience.

Like now, the Phillips PCC88 that could be a little too clear in some settings is smooth and a bit  warm in this one! Replace the Mullard GZ32 with an RCA 5R4GY in the CSP3 and things open up, and tighten up...slower, but nice and still quite smooth and warm, though many would call this rectifier sterile. Back in the Torii with the later Phillips E88CC, very nice also...that old school solidity of a really good 6922 type I never loved in the MKIII, but really do in the MKIV. Now some 60s Mullard ECC88 with a large hallow getter....these were good testing pulls...gorgeous..louder, fast, articulate, deep/round but natural sounding bass, quite spacious, more upper mids in the balance.

Who knows!

Orange, is this the listing you're talking about?  I see a couple problems.  First this is a listing from Bulgaria...I rarely buy from a non-usa seller unless someone else here has done so without problems.  Second the guy gives no test results.  Also if I'm reading the codes right these tubes were made by the Mullard plant at Mitchum (the capital R in the date code) in 1969 (the 9 in the date code). I don't know if $100 is a good price and i also don't know how the tubes would sound...probably very good.  I personally would stick with Amperex...which was owned by Phillips as many brands were...and either the Holland made tubes with a delta or the USA tubes with an asterisk in the tube code.  Three Amperex 7308s just sold several minutes ago by the same vendor you looked at for $35 to $38 for great white label single tubes...shipping would be $3.95.  I had planned on bidding on them for 37 bucks but forgot because I was typing this...oh well...hehe.

Will is correct...listen to him. I do tend to favor a warmer/smoother sound than he does.  For input tubes I haven't experimented too much having used only the Amperex family but soon I'll try some Mullard 6DJ8s...just need to pick one more up.  Now in the ZP3 I've rolled many tube types and brands.  

Can't believe I forgot to bid on those auctions...I had them all lined up but when I remembered, they were done. Don't be in a rush...good tubes and deals come up all the time.  Just be patient.  From what you've told us, I think you should try the Amperex white label 7308s....PQ or Military Spec...doesn't matter.  They are the same tube made on the same line in New York.  My guess is that same seller has more tubes and will soon list again. Anyway, back to the music,  Mark.


http://www.ebay.com/itm/2x-Philips-E88CC-S-Q-Special-Quality-Triode-Tube-Low-Noi...

Mark, no, it was this one:

http://m.ebay.ca/itm/PHILIPS-E88CC-SQ-XMAS-SALE-PRICE-PAIR-OF-NOS-GOLD-PIN-NEW-I...

Your right, I am going to stick with my plan to pick up some nice white label 7303's.

Hifitubes, I agree that it seems strange, but these guys are not stupid and they have lots of high end tube experience from their parent company.

Orange,  after writing my post I did a search on ebay...not google and found a bunch of those. On the one you have here, I can see the date code on the left one and it is a 1968 Heerlen (Holland) made tube that would be identical to an Orange Globe Amperex made at that plant in 1968.  I have preferred the older white labels but I think the orange globe pair I've listened to was a USA made in NY.  I think the orange ink on Amperex 6922s began in 1967...the green ink began even later. So I would say for the 6922s, if it were me, I'd only buy 1966 or older white label tubes.  

Now with the Orange label 7308s...I've listened to a 1968 NY made and it was the same as one made in NY in 1966 with a white label.  I can't speak to those made later...I've seen some with date codes into the 70's...I would stick to 60's tubes. Also I should add, if test results. are not given ask for them...including the name of the tester, NOS value and minimum good for the tube you are considering.  Do not buy untested tubes

I'm with HiFitubes...do not try that funky tube with the adapter.  Stick to tubes others here have experience with in Decware gear.

So set up a search in ebay and soon you'll have some great tubes for $125 or less for a great testing pair.  Mark.

Will, you are correct.  I haven't seen an orange globe Amperex tube out of Holland either.  The point is just that the Heerlen (Holland) factory made many great tubes and the labels varied...the same tube could have half a dozen brand labels.  The only way to really know what you've got is to examine the etched codes.  The 1968 6922s made in that plant may sound the same as a 1966....I don't know.  My experience with the 1968 Amperex orange label 6922s is limited to the one pair I have that was made in New York. But I do admit it has made me reluctant to try even the Holland made 6922 tubes made in 1968 or later.  If I see some cheap, I may try them.  Mark.

No Orange, on that you are wrong, at  least for American made Amperex tubes the white label was used until 1966, in 1967 the orange, then later the green...not sure when...maybe Will can chime in.  He has much more experience with these tube types than I.

Orange, I'll make you a deal.  If you buy a good testing matched pair of the Amperex white label 7308s and for any reason don't like them...I'll buy them for $80, shipping on you.  So your risk is minimal. Just do it.   Mark.

Orange,  I just looked for some green labels and found our seller of all those nice 7308s has 4 listed.  The date codes would seem to indicate these are made in New York in 1968.  Now I'm a bit perplexed...I always thought the green labels came later but 1968 is exactly the year of manufacture of the pair of New York made 6922s I have, the change code is even the same on my orange label as these green labels...mmmm  Mark.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/4-Vintage-1960s-Amperex-JAN-6922-6DJ8-E88CC-Globe-Gold-P...

Mark: Quote:


Those look just like the green globes I got and thought I remembered as late sixties. As I said earlier, mine are not as good a tube as the 63-4 white PQs, but who knows how another pair might sound.

You will find green and orange label mixed late 60s production.

http://www.tubemonger.com/Amperex_USA_L_New_1966_67_6922_E88CC_Orange_Globe_p/62...

When I find values there, I have bought a lot of tubes from tubemonger over the years and I think they are reliable folks...helpful and taking care of issues if they show up.


Mark,

Ha! My ears are skin colored!

For American Amperex, I have heard White PQs, Orange PQs (I think '70) and the Green Globes, so can't comment on others.

I have enjoyed them all, though I agree that the white PQ is the best all around tube with a special character. However, it can sound great or pretty low average depending on context, as can the others.

And please don't mistake my preferences for a live performance vibe and interest in complex detail for bright. I would be very surprised if most here would find my sound lacking warmth, or edgy. I really don't like the wince factor with edgy recordings and work to find that balance of relatively unrestricted complex detail without hardness. I also doubt if it is my ears or perception, but rather, I likely have a more revealing system than most since I do seem to hear things many don't. I think I have just explored revelation without edginess for a long time and pretty deeply.

The more I follow this, the more I realize there are many different ways to get warmth and body, and it can definitely be gotten without detail loss or muddle. I am finding lately that a blend of tube tonal characters in combination is a really good way to get warmth and body without dumbing down detail or creating hardness. But those complex detail qualities have to be there in source, all the tubes, amps and cables to get there, and without room adjusting the EQ too much, or impediment distortions and noise from rough power or vibration. These things can make hard what was potentially lovely complex detail, detail that has enough micro information to feather the edges into beauty rather than hardness.

So I guess our input choices are based on balancing everything in our systems. For example, I think I have mentioned that I can't listen to your chosen power tubes, RFT/Siemens. I have tried many times, but they balance too hot in the upper mids and highs, and tend to a little dark down lower...for me...in this system/room. Very compelling how they do it, but for me, they sound unnatural. This is not to say it is not an awesome tube, I just prefer what my source/system/room reveal as more linear. But in your system/room, with the other tubes, source, cables and so on you use, those tubes are really remarkable, in part balanced by American Amperex white labels.

I am doing a similar thing now I think. The Telefunken ECC88 I have in the front of the CSP3 really is too intensely thick/warm compared to most tubes I have used, but had really compelling qualities, so I have balanced it with some tubes that could be a bit too open in some other settings and the sound is amazing.

Seems seeking the beauty sound has many paths, really as many as there are parts in a system and room!

While I missed all those 7308's from a closed down audio store on eBay, but tonight I did get the quad of USA 1968 Amperex JAN 6922 Green Label's that Mark mentioned above.  According to Vacuumtubes.net these are the same thing as the Amperex 6922 PQ white label tubes but were packaged and marked for the military. If so, then I got a good deal at $168.50 for a matched quad. If not, still worth trying for me c

I will still get a pair of white label 7308's as well. But these should keep me busy in the mean time!

Will, I might also look for a good 7DJ8 as well.

Thanks everyone for all your help with the. I learned allot!

They did point out the operating points are different on the data sheets. I'm not an expert, but my friend is and his concerns are valid. I'm doing more research. I might buy a pair and have them tested on Amplitrex as 6922.

Quote:

Orange,  I went to that website and couldn't figure out where the discussion on the Amperex 6922s was...could you cut and paste it here.

I hope those green labels work out but both Will and I found USA made 1968 Amperex 6922's to be less satisfactory than and inferior to the white label Amperex 6922s.  The White label would indicate a 1966 or earlier manufacture with a different change code than Green or Orange 1968s. Below is a post made else where when I initially tried the 1968 Amperex Orange Globe tubes...  

 14       SUPPORT FORUMS FOR CURRENT DECWARE GEAR / CSP3 / Re: Any suggestions for the input tube?
on: 04/13/15 at 20:35:57
Started by FarmBoss | Post by mark58
Farm Boss,  I recently did as you want to do...I upgraded both the output and input tubes in my CSP3.  I currently have a White label Amperex 7308 as input and a pair of 60's Triple Mica 6N1P-EVs as outputs.  I would also mention in my Zen Signature Monoblocks I've run a pair of the 7308s as inputs but recently have really enjoyed a pair of White label Amperex 6922s that would also probably work well in the CSP3.  I tried a pair of Orange Globe Amperex 6922s and they were harsh and edgy compared to the older White Labels...I was really quite surprised at the difference.  It may have been that the Orange ones needed more break in.  Happy Rolling.  Mark.

I'll be interested in your impressions of the Green label 6922s and the white label 7308s.  I personally have found the White label 6922 and 7308s comparable...the 7308s a little more focused/detailed and the 6922 maybe a little warmer with less high end energy...these are impressions and not A/B comparisons.  I use both tubes as well as the white label 6DJ8 in my Zen Signature Monoblocks...I like them all but each has it's own characteristics. Mark.

PS...Orange,  I should add the besides the stock inputs Steve sent with my Torii MK IV, the only inputs I've used is a pair of Military Spec Amperex White labeled 7308's...never 6922s.  So maybe your findings will be different than mine with the tubes in the Zen Signature Monoblocks which is the only place I tried the Orange Globe 6922s.

PSS...I looked for when I purchased my pair of 1968 orange globes...it was Feb. 2015 for $42 plus 4.95 S&H.  Ebay doesn't save the descriptions past 5 months or so but I seem to recall the seller thinking these had not been used before, true NOS...the gold pins did look unused.  So I do think they would improve with break in...I pulled them after only a few hours.

Hopefully they will better the nationals and gold lions. Cheaper then both of those for me.

You know Will, I think my Amperex orange globe 6922 should improve a lot with break in, it was just that I had bought three pair of the White labels...mixed USA and Holland made...about the same time and the difference was so startling that I didn't want to be bothered with the break in.  It would be very surprising if just one change in manufacturing (code VL8 to VL9) could have such a dramatic change for the worse.  An orange globe just sold yesterday that was manufactured in October 1966...this is the oldest orange globe 6922 I've seen.  It had the VL9 Tube and change code.

Will, I've never used the 6922 tube in the Torii...just the CSP3 and Zen Signature Monoblocks.  Does the break in of tubes only depend on the Amp being on?  The volume used doesn't effect break in does it?  I'm thinking low level listening for a few days may work.  Just thinking out loud.  These days I'm very intolerant of having to break in things. Have you found any good black Friday deals?  I just bought a few things at pop market that I'll post in the what's spinning thread. Mark.

PS...OK, I popped the Orange globes into the Monoblocks.  They have exactly 24 hours of play to prove themselves. It should take several days.

Will, I know and agree with all you've said about the 7308s vs 6922s.  I was just pointing out that I hadn't initially tried the orange globes in the Torii but rather the Monoblocks. Maybe after break in, I might put them in the Torii for a short trial just for comparison.  Mark.

Will,  I hate to admit it but this Live Bill Evans I'm listening to with the Orange Globes after a little over 3 hours in the monos...is sounding pretty good.  Mark.

That is good news! My green globes are 68 as well, do maybe they will sound good too! 😀

I checked out the Amperex.  They are a little pricey for me.  Around $70-$90 per tube on eBay.  I'm not saying I won't try them, but what's available for less that would bring me closer to the 7308 sound?

The Genelex seem pretty reasonable.

I could not stand the Gold Lions in the Torri.  Harsh and pronounced sibilance.  Really disappointing. The National's from Upscale are really good for the money.  

That's great news Mark!  They were just sent today, he got behind on his shipping with the holiday.  It will still be awhile as I am in Canada. Thanks for trying them again, it gives me hope.  As long as they better the National's, I will be happy with the purchase, and as Will said, give me an idea of the amperex sound.  I am now curious of the made in Holland versions.  Some say a sweeter midrange but a bit less drive.

Wow those are pretty. Big halo 1962!

The seller of those Amperex 7308s I bought sent a message that on his Eico Tester all three tested 100%.  I have sent him a message to clarify what tester he used and if each plate is measured at 100%.  He sells a lot of tubes so I would hope he has the Ecio model tester that measures dynamic transductance and not the Ecio that is only an emissions tester.  This type of tube has very tight specs so even if they are 100% of NOS per emissions, they should have plates that measure very close to each other.  Yes, I agree a small risk but $41 per tube for 1962 tubes versus $95 each or more for a late 60's version...I'll take the risk.  Mark.

Stone, In regards to Uncle Kevin's note on 7308 tube labels...I agree with a caveat.  I've said before that the one orange globe 7308 I have sounds the same to me as my white labels. Also the white labels sound the same whether Military or PQ labeled...all of them made on the same line in NY. Inspecting Green, orange and white labels from the 60's online, I have found that they all have the same change code...VR5, so the manufacturing process and materials are likely the same with the print color, style and dates being the main difference.  However, by the early 70's...maybe the late 60's the change code changed to VR6....which indicates some change in the manufacturing process.  So those USA made 7308s with the etched VR6 code may sound different than the VR5 tubes...I have never listened to anything except VR5 coded tubes dating from the early to late 60's....no 70's 7308s.  Hope this clears things up a little.  Mark.

That's very interesting Greg.  They were on my initial list mostly because of Stone.  However the consensus from my earlier research indicated that anything from Amperex would better them.  But your comments made me look again and I did find one interesting comparison from AudioKarma. Please keep me posted if you do further comparisons.  I am Looking for a bit of lush, sweet, holographic midrange.  Here is the comment from Mike on AudioKarma:

6922 / 6SN7

Mr. Edison in the USA and Mr. Swan in the UK were two guys who both claimed primacy on the invention of the incandescent light bulb. Rather than duke it out in court in the UK, they merged their British companies (thus EdiSwan). Edison discovered the "Edison effect", but not the electronic tube itself, Fleming discovered the diode, deForest (bless his heart) the triode.


The Ediswan is a well-regarded British-made tube, some varying opinions on some 6922/ECC88's:

Siemens 6922/ECC88 A-frame getter: Lovely, full, detailed, not harsh at the top, but make sure you get the real thing.

Siemens 6DJ8 D-frame getter: Even nicer that the A-frame, a bit more lush and euphonic. Again, make sure you get the real thing - the 60's and earlier Siemens are incredibly hard to find, most dealers are selling the 70's and 80's stuff, often east German sourced.

Ediswan CV5358: Wonderful tube. Warm and detailed, tight bass, euphonic yet detailed, very 3-dimensional. Better than the more common CV2493, which is good, but not in this league.

Amperex 6922 PQ 'shield' logo: Preferably the white printing - less detail by a slight bit, but very 3-dimensional and lush. Great bloom. The 7308 PQ is also great, some feel it's even better.

Siemens CCa: Right up there with the other great ones. Very 3-dimensional, not euphonic but full sounding - really nice.

Mullard E88CC 10M series: Just like the Ediswan CV5358, perhaps a bit warmer bass.

... and the 6SN7...

Sylvania 6SN7GT: The best all-around 6SN7 (one that does everything well) is the JAN-CHS 1952 . IMHO this may be the greatest 6SN7 ever made. It has the midrange and treble attributes of the famous '40's Sylvania VT231 but with the bass response of a KenRad.

RCA VT-231: A bit syrupy. It certainly doesn't have the openess and detail of, say the Sylvania VT-231. But it's TONALITY is just, well...right. The sound of musical instruments - their tonality - is simply the correct one. Very musical.

Sylvania VT-231: Bright and lacking in the boom-bam department.

Well folks, the three 1962 Amperex White PQ 7308s I bought on ebay arrived in the mail.  They have replaced the Orange Globe Amperex 6922s in the monoblocks.  Unfortunately I have no time to listen today...maybe I can get some time in tomorrow.

They look brand new and will likely require 20+ hours of burn in. Orangecrush, I'll let you know how they compare to the 1968 Amperex 6922s which have been very good once they had some hours on them. Mark.

Orange,  I've only got 1.5 hours on the NOS pair of 1962 Amperex White Label PQ 7308s.  Played a Bill Evans at the Vanguard 1980 CD and now Joni Mitchell's "Blue".  Superb...clarity and detail without bite...if that makes sense, beautiful.  I'm sure they'll improve even more with some hours.  I definitely like them more than the 1968 Orange Globe 6922s.  From what I remember there wasn't as notable a difference between the Amperex white label 6922s and the 7308s. But my audio memory is horrible.  Mark.

Good Orange.  Just remember it's a marathon...not a sprint but I'm sometimes the same way. Now that you've got some nice tubes you can be patient and get a deal on some high testing Amperex White Label 7308s... I'd try to pay $45 each or less.  The edginess may lessen with burn in but a lot depends on other factors...the recording, other tubes and cabling.  Also I'm not sure how much your Superfly emphasizes the high end...my HR-1s and Omegas do.  So with the HR-1s I added some resistors and with the Omegas I use 60's or 50's Amperex 6DJ8s to tone down the high end.  Everything works together.  Have Fun,  Mark.

Thanks Mark. Ignorance is bliss. These are keepers for sure.  But like you said, I am in no hurry now.

Nice job posting this Mark.  It is sometime tough to see the internal workings/soldering etc. in some listings. I have also noticed that the labeling on fakes can be recognizable if you compare with the known real thing, typeface is not the same for all letters or even the location on the tube...although this isn't always true. It's tough especially when you think you see a great deal. I find that once I know a seller is legit and has a lot of sales at a 100% rating I stick with him.

Thanks

JD