Sure. I meant some people were saying for a while that the Yggy was more for Redbook than anything else given criticisms about lower resolution levels (some even said 13 bits was the limit). Not true in my limited experience of 1.5 hrs with it! I agree absolutely with your points, SteveC.

Stone, you need to audition the Yggy and then compare. Both are great DACs.

PS-I said "turd" joking of course....the creator's are cheeky in their pro's.

I know this is a one hell of a DAC too.....I ordered one..... .

.....and yes, you do know within a few hours if the DAC matter's (your 1.5 hours-I would have been shredded for that post-but, I also know how good my System is with Kimber Select...so I laugh at the Lon's)...but about 130 hours.....is the true test...if you're still happy.... .

But, it is Relative, to what you had?!!! I know the PWD, NAD51, PS Audio DSD DAC & QuteHD...etc (I'd have to check my notes on the other's).... ........ . So, I bet you think the Yggy is all that and a bag of chips at 1.5 hours?!

I kid you not...how good Steve's ZDSD is for Redbook!  The Auralic is coming along nicely.

No, you have a very good System....just documenting.

bw, take my comments with a grain of salt because I haven't stopped buying hi-res music, nor have I really started--I buy it on SACD and Blu-ray and DVD Audio, not files.

In my case with the amazing DS upsampling to DSD and its excellent preamp section (I've gone back to listening to it directly, the CSP2+ actually holds it back somewhat and this allows me to use my two best interconnects for my two best sources) Redbook of the same material sounds almost as good as hi-res played back either into the DS or via my Denon universal player, so much so that I only buy hi-res disc versions of my very favorite recordings when I think the mastering is better (Audio Fidelity, Mobile Fidelity et al) . . . in reality the mastering matters as much as the resolution. As I have so many Redbook cds and as Redbook is so cheap these days (amazing box set deals in classical and jazz et al) and hi-res seems unduly expensive to me, I concentrate on buying Redbook, and generally I concentrate on playing what I have, which is a hell of a lot of Redbook. (And then there's vinyl, which I'd rather buy than much hi-res).  For me, it's that simple.

What of "Lon's" are you laughing at and why?

I'm very appreciative of the Zen-master Steve as well, but I have heard from two people that own the DS and have heard or own the Zen DSD that have told me it's a great player but but the DS is preferred, so I'm not in the market for that (or another) DAC, I'm very happy with what I have and just enjoying the music.

Well, I haven't heard the differences being that immense. I use the PWT which I know is a great transport, perhaps that narrows the difference. Never-the-less, the sound I receive from Redbook via the DS is far more than "good enough" -- it's great and I don't hunger for better sound from different formats. (I do find myself on occasion pining for the sound of vinyl, that's a sound that is different from any type of digital I've heard and very satisfying in a far clearer "apples and oranges" way than hi-res and Redbook in my system). I'm tired of chasing for the very best sound. . . when I get this great a sound from the big collection of recordings that I already have, that's when I spend a lot of time enjoying what I have and just exploring the music and the feelings and ideas they communicate.

And again, I've lived with my DS for more than a year and that's different than hearing something at a show. Still, we all have different priorities and perceptions. But I certainly have had a diminished appetite for hi-res in general after having reached this level of Redbook playback, so I can see why others might, though they may phrase it differently ("stop buying Redbook.") And the financial (assuming we're not talking about stealing music from blogs and sites-- I won't do that) difference between Redbook available cheaply and hi-res at a premium price probably plays into this as well. Age may play into this as well. Someone forty or under may view collecting hi-res very differently than someone forty, fifty or sixty (I just hit that landmark). After decades of buying things in different format we may just want to stop re-buying things in yet another format.

IME, all High Res files seem to reduce the output volume (SPL), other things being equal. This has been consistent across all three of the DACs I've used so far. The exception is 24/192 files, which come in at normal volume, always. Weird! 24/88.2 and 24/96 always require for me to increase the volume pot, some more than others. I know recordings are made different, but this characteristic behavior is evident in all my recordings and my system and I don't have an explanation for it.

I've also found the sound quality leap between Redbook and those 88.2 and 96 K sampling rates is not much, whereas the leap from any of those to 24/192 is quite evident. Just my personal observations.

Could be, but these observations were triggered when alternating High Res with Redbook at the same times, so the context was the same. The relative difference in volume is not measured but felt that way and seems consistent with most of my High Res files except for 24/192. Curious!

I'm sure DACs have a sweet spot, no arguments here.

Fireblade.  I'm glad you are enjoying the Yggy.  I hope to hear one at some point in the not too distant future.  You are experiencing first hand that these amps are transparent enough to accept the best sources out there.  

Looking forward to your impressions on what the ZBit is adding to the mix.  Cheers!

Ok, an update on evaluating the net contributions of the ZBit with the Yggdrasil in the system. After comparing the sound in both configurations (with and without the ZBit), over and over and using the same sample recordings, I've come to the conclusion that it is close but there's a slight advantage from the ZBit in the signal path.

The Zbit makes the sound slightly warmer and slightly rolled off in the high frequencies, while imparting more tri-dimensionality to the sound, especially a sense of depth that the Yggy by itself cannot offer. The Yggy by itself is neater, more forward, just slightly edgier than with the more laid-back sound of the Zbit in the line.

This of course is just my current opinion, in my system. I believe the best way to tap the synergies stemming from the balanced signal path concept is by integrating the feature inside the amp. This should eliminate the potential drops in both voltage and transparency from the extra stage involved. This is just my opinion, though.

The other two issues are that in my system, if the recording's original volume is low-level, one needs to crank-up the ZBit to compensate and get the right SPL from the ensemble, which in turn makes the music somewhat thicker, too warm and heavy for my taste, while still maintaining the same sound tri-dimensionality. Invariably, the amp's volume has to be always higher on its dial with the ZBit itself also in the higher positions to achieve the equivalent SPL as in the system without the ZBit, which makes 'riding the gain' between both volume settings, almost irrelevant.

YMMV.

The difference for high rez is not immense at all. I'm not replacing a whole catalog at 24.95 each or per song for that matter.

Steve's ZDSD for Redbook at 16/176 via his output stage is just as good. Spend your money on improving the rest of your Systems lamp cord, etc.... .  ....and Premium Tubes.




Listening Room:
Room Treatments from Michael Green & Home Brew

Sony as Transport (DVP-NS57P)/Sandwich weighted for Isolation
Illuminati D-60 Digital Coax IC

Shunyata Ztron Alpha Digital power cord....coming for ZDSD!
Decware ZDSD DAC / Recorder (@ -20 Ref Level, 0.0 Input volume and @ 16/176.4)
{also @ kept/-20 Ref Level & -1.0 Input volume Level}
{ also @ -18 Ref Level & -1.0 Input volume Level}
{ also @ -16 Ref Level & -1.0 Input Volume Level}

WBT-0102Ag RCA Kimber Select KS1030
Decware CSP3 w/Jupiter Caps (NOS/Platinum/Telefunken 6922/E88CC .....for Input Tube)
**********************************************
10 of 10 for Input tube & 8 of 10 voltage for Output tubes
Volume adjustment used at 0 to 40%
**********************************************
WBT-0102Ag RCA Kimber Select KS1030

Decware Zen Mystery Amplifier
***NOS/Platinum/Ediswan's CV2492/6922 in my A12 an B12 positions***
ZMA used as straight Power Amp, at 90% of Volume

********************************************
Kimber Select KS6063 Speaker Cable~great deal/used!
********************************************
Kimber Select KS3033 Speaker Cable
Acoustic Zen Adagio - Black Pearl (Modified)

REL T5 SUB, Neutrik connection from ZMA
{30Hz @ 35% of volume~0 Phase}
Auralex Subdude II

Acoustic Zen Adagio's x-over's Modified/Full Range with Mundorf MCap Supremes-single Cap to each Tweeter/4.5k cross
(Gutted: 3kHz/18dB/Octave, Linkwitz/Riley Crossovers....with all crappy parts = gone)

XLO Pro Power Cords to CSP3 an ZMA
PS Audio P3 Power Plant / Pangea AC-9SE from wall to P3
(Transport, ZDSD an CSP3, Regenerated/120 ~ Multiwave off...ZMA on High Current Output)

That's the exciting thing about the Decware amps, you feel they will never be the weakest link, as you upgrade all around them they are up to the task of delivering the benefits.

I find that Redbook sound amazing and so close to Hi-res with my DirectStream DAC as well. Which is very satisfying as I have so much Redbook and no desire to buy and re-buy a lot of Hi-Res material. So glad you are enjoying these improvements FB.

Yes, and when using the I2S via HDMI with the PWT, it's even better! I feel so lucky to have these. . . as the window that I could afford them has closed firmly for a while.

anyone trying the new bifrost multibit?
been running mine in for couple days now... its beautiful!

on a new unit its $200, existing unit $250 and it must be sent in for sw upgrades too.  i was running an uber which i liked very much, but this multibit a definite improvement and mates well with all my other gear too.

http://www.computeraudiophile.com/content/670-schiit-audio-yggdrasil-multibit-da...

I know you have tried many fine DACs in the past year or so, and it may be that you still prefer something else. I don't have the hands-on experience you've had with DACs, but I have a good pair of ears and taste for sound and I'd like to tell you that if you allow it to warm up for 7 days or so, and never take it off the power, this is a most amazing piece of gear.

I don't think you'll return it unless the ZDSD (which I have not heard) is just as good (or better). We'll see.

Nice and successful journey, indeed. I've myself gone through dramatic gear changes lately, including room conditioning, better amplification (preamp and amp) and speaker upgrades, as well as getting a DAC that is so special.

This sound reminds me of my old Enlightened Audio Design Transport and Theta processor, coupled with the trusty Audio Alchemy of the early 90's, an Audio Research LSP-3 Line Stage preamp, the VTL W225 monoblocks (8 EL34 tubes by monoblock) and the Ref 7 Clements Speakers ... Long time ago, but still in my memory.

Today, I feel I'm done with gear upgrades and just need to do some minor tube-rolling with rectifiers, input tubes and interconnects to dial-in the sound to my preferences from an already pretty astounding sound platform. Last night I was really impressed, as it was evident that all the waiting, saving and tweaking have paid off to the point I really don't feel I miss anything else!

Got my Yggy in early yesterday-about 9:30 CST...and put her in my System by 10:30. I was only able to play her/listen on and off/passively mostly, for about 3 hours before I had to head out for the day. Sounds promising..... . VCXO lock....spot on. Wonderful/Solid piece of Gear....beautifully designed. Pleasure to install.

However, I have her on 24/7 (as stated by Schiit, to do so), connected by my Shunyata Alpha Digital PCord.

Late this afternoon, watching football, I will be in and out of the Room...grabbing a listen as she burns in some more till midnight.

Oh yes, I will give her the full treatment. Right now though the Yggy:

•It needs more energy/PRaT.....like Steve's Output Stage/ZDSD has!
•It sounds more on the warm side of neutrality
•more focus and clearer leading edges are needed
•I wish the dynamic range and macro-dynamics in general were a little bit better................Steve's tight/tuneful bass from his output stage can shake my Room (sans Subwoofer). The Yggy can't...... .

....it's detailed/and musical....but Steve's is more so.....with all the things the Yggy lacks/needs (stated above).

The extended clean musical Treble, I can extract from Steve's Output Stage with my Ediswan's...is incredible.  The Yggy can't.

But hey, it has only been on for 51 hours straight....with 17 hours of Listening time.

I will hear/see...........right now though....I'm really appreciating the Superiority of Steve's ZDSD creation!

.....the Pitch and Timbre are superior as well....coming out of the ZDSD.
However, more time needed on the Yggy....... .

Some awesome systems in this thread, and I'm glad to see folks discussing the Schiit offerings. It's cool to see you guys building up your systems over time, could we ever live without seperates (see below My friend got his Bifrost MB, and had some high freq noise, so it's back to Schiit for now. Still, I think he was initially impressed.

I was tempted to try a Bifrost MB and might in the future but just very happy with the Vega. I also have finally gotten uber-stable PCM2DSD with new Windows 10 setup so I feel I can play around with Native, upsampling to 352, PCM2DSD, or native DSD (of which I have a LOT). Still, very tempting the Bifrost MB is at that price point for a different DAC topology and I do have two inputs on my LDR, and two USB outputs on my Adnaco USB system!

So I saw mention in this thread of someone using a ZBIT in this thread, and since I'm not about to shell $3K for some Final Drives, I'm looking to the ZBIT, but a little nervous because the tricked out Rachel is sounding better than ever - I would like to get a ZBIT with no attenuate to run into my LDR.

To be honest, I have come very close to getting a Rossi LIO system with tubed-autoformer but when I sit down, the Rachel sounds really nice and I have put so much time and effort into building this system. I'm a little bugged that my Rachel seems a little suceptible to DC current on the line, even through my P3 and two different DC blockers. I also live overseas (but have 110v), and have lugged a lot of large tube amps back across the pond - tired of doing that for upgrades and repairs.

So sorry rambling, anyone using ZBIT or other transformer designs? I've been told more than once that the Vega goes up another level when using a true balanced output as opposed to adapters like I have in place now. But damn, my sound now is clear, rich, full and spooky midrange.

Still, I see a ZBIT in my future.

Oh and @Fireblade - you using Xhadow Silver Ref? I have one pair and if I add the ZBIT I might add another. I like them! 2 too much? I currently use Antipodes Komako from Vega to LDR.

Happy Thanksgiving all!

I have an epic problem, and I probably should not hijack this thread with it. I will post to main forum.

I own an Emotiva CMX-2, custom DC blocker 2-port, and a PS Audio P3 which also blocks a little DC current.

There are times when the P3 torroid is buzzing much louder than normal and voltage goes up to 120 here, at that point I hear the buzz on speakers. Like ground loop. I have heard the P3 stop excess buzzing and instantly speakers stop.

I'm pretty sure it's DC problem. Days at a time no buzz just low low level hum from Rachel only heard at 12".

Thanks! Keep us posted. I may grab a pair of custom RCA on loan from a friend as well. I'm the worst at comparing stuff like this though, I'm always at the edge of the couch "Goddamn it all sounds so good!"

Ok let's chat pm on zbit.

Hi tes, welcome to the Forum.

I returned the Yggy. It was a very good DAC. However, without getting into all of the superlative adjectives about it vs. the ZDSD..... . I preferred MR. D's ZDSD more so. There is just a "so much rightness" with his output stage running into the rest of my Decware CSP3 an ZMA.

I wanted to keep it for my 2nd System. But, I want Steve's new ZTPRE after the New Year......+ the extra Cash it's going to kick me in the shorts for....I know how good it's going to be and what it will do (read: IN Series Output Tubes....on steroids...dual adjustable volume).

I took a 5% hit plus shipping on having the Yggy in...but worth it. As I've taken a hit here and there to have other great DACS in....well worth the peace of mind....I have what I need and know is very, very good...better to my ears with Steve's .....ZDSD.....or I would OWN the other stuff.







Listening Room:



Room Treatments from Michael Green & Home Brew

Sony as Transport (DVP-NS57P)/Sandwich weighted for Isolation

Illuminati D-60 Digital Coax IC

****Shunyata Research ZiTron Alpha Digital Power Cord****
{you need to experience the next level it can take your DAC}

Decware ZDSD DAC / Recorder
***************************************************************
W/Steve's Output Transformer's/kicking to the curb quite a few superb DAC'S!
***************************************************************
(@ -20 Ref Level, 0.0 Input volume and @ 16/192)
{also @ kept/-20 Ref Level & -.5db or -1.0 Input volume Level}


WBT-0102Ag RCA Kimber Select KS1030

Decware CSP3 w/Jupiter Caps
(NOS/Platinum/Telefunken 6922/E88CC for Input Tube~6N1P-EV's for Output Tubes & 5U4G-C Rectifier)
****************************************************
10 of 10 for Input tube & 9 of 10 voltage for Output tubes
Volume adjustment usage at 25% to 40% of usable volume
****************************************************

WBT-0102Ag RCA Kimber Select KS1030

Decware Zen Mystery Amplifier
(NOS/Platinum/Ediswan's CV2492/6922 in my A12 an B12 positions~6N23P-EV's for Inverter Tubes~JAN Sylvania 0A3's & Tung-Sol KT66's)
ZMA adjusted at 30% to 70% of usable volume

***************************************************
Kimber Select KS6063 Speaker Cable 8ft WBT-0681-Ag Spades
***************************************************

Acoustic Zen Adagio - Black Pearl (Modified)




Acoustic Zen Adagio's x-over's Modified/Full Range with Mundorf MCap Supremes-single Cap to each Tweeter/4.5k cross
(Gutted: 3kHz/18dB/Octave, Linkwitz/Riley Crossovers....with all crappy parts = gone)

XLO Pro Power Cords to CSP3 an ZMA
PS Audio P3 Power Plant / Pangea AC-9SE from wall to P3
(Transport, ZDSD an CSP3, Regenerated/120 ~ Multiwave off...ZMA on High Current Output)

PS=the: NOS/Platinum/Ediswan's CV2492/6922 /Inputs = ZMA are breathtaking.............. .

NOS/Platinum/Telefunken 6922/E88CC for Input Tube/CSP3 ~ not taken for granted neither......... .