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ZBIT (Read 9539 times)
Fireblade
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A.L.Tennyson

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ZBIT
05/12/15 at 13:15:02
 
Has anyone who already tried the ZBIT, care to forward some comments? I'm eager to get some feedback as I plan to get one, but there must be a positive tradeoff between the advantages and disadvantages of implementing yet another stage in the signal path.

Is the transparency compromised with the addition of that stage in the signal path relative to before its application? If so,

Do you believe the balanced input signal results are really worth that transparency limitation?

Thanks for any pointers.
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Lon
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Re: ZBIT
Reply #1 - 05/12/15 at 13:19:19
 
I don't know if you saw this thread, but it's a start:

https://www.decware.com/cgi-bin/yabb22/YaBB.pl?num=1415411351
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Fireblade
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Re: ZBIT
Reply #2 - 05/12/15 at 13:35:11
 
Thanks, Lon. I had not, actually. I'll get to it asap.
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Lonely Raven
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Re: ZBIT
Reply #3 - 05/12/15 at 19:13:08
 
Also, if you search for Magic Box, you'll probably find some posts by me.

I'll summarize here though.

I got to listen to Steve's prototype - he was using it to convert XLR out from various sources that don't have RCA, and run them into amps that only have RCA. I think he was also using it as a variable output - which is how I played with it a bit. It *does not* have a gain stage - but here is what it does have:

Basically it's the XLR transformers that are installed in my ZMA - with a volume knob to *dial down* the voltage going to the amp. This isn't anything like those $30 XLR to RCA adapters you can get at a music store.

Why would we want this? Two reasons as I see it - #1 XLR can, and IMHO usually does, sound better. You can run longer runs, it's less cable sensitive, filters out noise, and (bringing me to #2) has more voltage!
#2 Voltage - While your RCA output on your gear might output 2.5v or something pretty decent, not all gear does have extra voltage on top And our Decware amps like having voltage on the input - and XLR can have 10v coming from it! Which is why the ZBIT has a volume knob. Take your 10v output, and 20' long XLR cable, plug it into the ZBIT and dial down the voltage to the input of your RCA input on your amp till you find a sound you like!

This was helpful with my PS Audio DirectStream - one of the shortcomings is a 2v RCA output. (which to be fair, is kind of a standard output)  And I was spoiled by my Oppo BDP-105 that has much more. It's not just volume, but density that you gain when you have more voltage going into a Decware amp. Lots of gear builders (PS A included) just didn't get this. I kept getting responses like "well can't you just turn it up?", or "Get a Preamp!"  So when I was at Steve's shop, he let me play with the Magic Box - now called ZBIT, and I took the Balanced XLR out from the DirectStream, ran to the box, and dialed in the input voltage that I liked into the RCA input of the ZMA and there was the density I had been missing, but with all the detail of going direct (no preamp) from the source.

If you have need of it, the ZBIT is a great tool to have. If you've already got the XLR transformers in your Decware amp - it's still useful since it gives you control over the voltage.
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Fireblade
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Re: ZBIT
Reply #4 - 05/12/15 at 20:38:57
 
Thanks, LR,

I just need to be able to take advantage of the normally better sound coming from XLR outputs from a balanced DAC. Since my Mini Torii does not accept XLR inputs, I need the ZBit for that.

But. my concern is (here's the purist side of me!) I would not want to crowd the signal path with another in-between stage, unless Steve's design is so simple, it does not crowd that signal. The other concern is what the additional XLR cables may bring to the table in terms of potential 'veil', hindering transparency.

I wonder if that Jensen transformer could be placed inside the Mini Torii also. That would take care of the dangers of an extra stage in the signal path (at least the cables). Since I'm about to send the amp for total upgrades (except the infinite feedback thing), I wonder if Steve could possibly also place ant internal ZBIT inside the original chassis.

Just my concerns ...

BTW, its nice to learn you can also ride the gain with the ZBit, to improve weight and body of the sound.
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Lonely Raven
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Re: ZBIT
Reply #5 - 05/13/15 at 04:57:20
 

It can't hurt to ask Steve if he can fit those transformers in there. But I'm sure it would require drilling holes, and would need room.

I find the Jensen transformers add a nice little sparkle to the sound. I didn't feel I really lost anything going XLR, I felt I gained much more.
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Fireblade
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Re: ZBIT
Reply #6 - 05/13/15 at 12:52:32
 
Thanks, LR. I assume you have tried it both ways (i.e., single-ended and XLR with the ZBit), and you found better sound in spite of the added stage using XLR and the ZBit?
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Lonely Raven
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Re: ZBIT
Reply #7 - 05/13/15 at 21:41:35
 

Yes, when I bought my ZMA, I had RCA only. Steve originally talked me out of getting XLR because he knows I like to keep things simple, and we both agreed that less (in connections etc) is more.

But once we heard reel to reel tape decks via XLR using those jensen transformers, that changed things really fast. And I ponied up the $$ to have Steve add the XLR jacks to my ZMA. I've been using them ever since...even though I sold my reel to reel - it's still my primary connection.

I find XLR is less cable sensitive, the Jensesns add a little sparkle/air to the sound, the ZMA likes the added voltage, and I didn't feel I was losing much if any detail. And I'm a detail freak so that's saying something.

So I do highly reocmmend the XLR inputs if your amp can support them, or if not, get the ZBIT.

Also, check and make sure your source has a good XLR output circuit. Both my Oppo and DirectStream are proper balanced outputs. This is key to noise reduction.
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Fireblade
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Re: ZBIT
Reply #8 - 05/13/15 at 21:58:04
 
Good points, LR, understood. There still may be a difference in transparency between having the XRL internally and having to keep an extra stage in the signal path, but let's hope for the best.

As far as the quality of the XLR output, my future DAC is the Schiit Yggdrasil, a top of the line breakthrough DAC, just released with raving reviews by everyone, including people with Master 7 linked to Off-Ramp 5, saying the Yggy beats them all by a lot!

Schiit is a very respected audio group, although I preferred the Audio Gd so far, except this is their Statement Dac.
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Lonely Raven
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Re: ZBIT
Reply #9 - 05/14/15 at 00:57:02
 
I'm waiting on ProggRob to get a Yggi. I really want to put it up against the PS Audio DirectStream.
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Lon
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Re: ZBIT
Reply #10 - 05/14/15 at 01:31:57
 
Not me. I'm overjoyed with the DS and know when to stop. If I were to throw money at a source it would be at my turntable, the ZP3 will keep revealing more and more, it's an amazing machine.
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Re: ZBIT
Reply #11 - 05/14/15 at 01:52:59
 
The DS seems to be universally received as a great DAC and it keeps getting better with firmware updates, so it's not the weak link in the system.  Are there better DAC's, probably, but I don't think it matters much when you are at this level of performance.  One likely has other weak links in his/her system....for example, the room.
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Fireblade
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Re: ZBIT
Reply #12 - 05/14/15 at 12:59:00
 
I certainly think the PS DS is the DAC to beat, so it will be interesting to learn from a tete à tete between them. Anyway, the DS is so out of my reach, I would not even be tempted by it, whatever the outcome may be. I think if the Yggy beat the Audio Gd Master 7 with an Off Ramp 5 on it (USB/iS2), and by a lot, this is a DAC which will probably stay with me until the end... My only caveat is it will take between 6 and 8 weeks to be shipped as it is on back-order already.

Does anyone know how many pins the XRL input is on the ZBit? I need to make sure these are compatible with the one on Yggy. Is it a male or a female plug on the ZBit?
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beowulf
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Re: ZBIT
Reply #13 - 05/14/15 at 23:57:32
 
@ LR - Can't wait to hear some thoughts on the Yggy in comparison to the DS as well.  The DS really set a high bar for what's capable in DACs.  Even if it's not to one's liking, IMO there's just a handful of companies like PSA that set the pace for others to come up with more design elements than just using a good output transformers paired up with an off the shelf chip.  There were obviously other people that had done FGPAs, but I can't recall any of them gaining the momentum that the PSA DS has.

Don't forget that the Yggy needs to be perpetually left on for a full 7 days for it to start blossoming.  I leave my DAC on all the time so that doesn't really bother me.

Although I'm quite happy with my McIntosh D100 and feel it is very resolving without be bright or strident and IME actually close to the level of the DS (not quite but pretty close).  I wouldn't mind moving away from the Sabre stuff and seeing what else is out there.  Like FB, the PSA DS is out of my league price wise though and the Yggy would be the maximum that I would ever consider paying for a DAC (unless a long lost Uncle from Europe passed away and left me his fortune Grin)

@ Lon - what type of TT were you contemplating?  Moving up in the Rega line or moving away from it into another realm of sorts?  Have you seen any of George Merrill designs such as the R.E.A.L., PolyTable or Replica?  These have peaked my interest as of late.
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