Norm wait!  ;D

I will know in 3 months if I'm selling my 6P's and 5 months if I'm selling my ZROCK2.

Probably not on both counts.....but, you never know with me.  ;D




Below? Not for sale.  




.......here is my order of Listening (keeping each scenario in one to two weeks at a time):


ZMA direct from ZDSD with Platinum Mullard pair (Cryo'd) 7308/E188CC ....as inputs/ZMA


ZMA direct from ZDSD with Platinum Ediswan pair (Cryo'd) CV2492/6922 ....as inputs/ZMA


Audio Research LS-2B/single Plat' Mullard 7308/E188CC (Cryo'd) to Plat' Tungsram pair PCC88/7DJ8 ...inputs/ZMA.



Previous Decware Amplifier's/I have owned/Purchased new:

SE84CS (#76 Zen Select/you see in my original Signature below/I used for 13 years/2001 till 2014)
Torii MkIII
SuperZen CKC
CSPreamplifier3 w/Jupiter Caps

Using impressive Decware PAC-S(ilver), for DishNetwork HD/DVR RCA output for SeriusXM Sat Radio & TV.



***ZMA, updated with robust Western Electric Bias/Balance Meter's and new Resistor's ~ Feb/17




Listening Room:



Room Treatments from Michael Green & my Home Brew


Sony as Transport (DVP-NS57P)
Illuminati D-60 Digital Coax IC ~.5 meter


Shunyata Research Zitron Alpha Digital Power Cord to ZDSD {Significant}


Decware ZDSD DAC / Recorder
***************************************************************
W/Steve's Output Transformer's/kicking to the Curb quite a few superb DAC'S
***************************************************************
(@ -20 Ref Level, 0.0 Input volume and @ 16/192)


WBT RCA Kimber Select KS1030 ~.5 meter


Audio Research Stereo Line Stage Amplifier w/remote volume & mute LS-2B MkII
NOS Platinum/Mullard 7308/E188CC / Cryogenic


WBT-0102Ag RCA Kimber Select KS1030 ~.75 meter


Decware Zen Mystery Amplifier
~BIASED at *56* mA~
NOS/Platinum/Mullard E188CC/7308's in my A12 an B12 Input positions Cryogenic~NOS/Platinum/Telefunken E88CC for Inverter Tubes~NOS RCA 0A3's & matched Quad/Tung-Sol KT66's

ZMA adjusted at  60-80% Gain ~ when ARC Line Stage is in, running via Remote Control



***************************************************
Kimber Select KS6063 Speaker Cable 8ft WBT-0681-Ag Spades
***************************************************
Kimber 8TC new/white & clear jacket/to remind me of how fluid/timbre correct and good the KS6063 are
Also Read.....the lowest noise floor you will ever witness....that a $5180 pair of speaker cables should have....and they do.....(I was fortunate to get them for $2680/Demo pair/mint, from the CableCo....worth every penny/extraordinary realism.....)



Acoustic Zen Adagio - Black Pearl (Modified)
.....enjoying from 8 ohm ZMA Taps


Caintuck Audio Eminence Alpha 15" OB BASS Unit
at 53Hz, with my Velodyne CHT 130 watt plate amp and 0 degree phase.....at 1/6 volume on plate
Plate Amp....regen'd clean ~ plugged into P3
Auralex Subdude (a must)
(NOTE: Only needed when the recording calls for...Open Baffle Bass has been the best integration I have witnessed when needed and called on)







Acoustic Zen Adagio's x-over's Modified/Full Range with Mundorf MCap Supremes-single Cap to each Tweeter/4.5k cross
(Gutted: 3kHz/18dB/Octave, Linkwitz/Riley Crossovers....with all crappy parts = gone)


XLO Pro Power Cord to ZMA
PS Audio P3 Power Plant / Pangea AC-9SE from wall to P3
(Transport, ARC Line Stage and ZDSD, Regenerated/*120*~ Multiwave off...ZMA on High Current Output).


~NOS Platinum Tubes from Upscale Audio/Kevin:

(Great Britain) Mullard 7308/E188CC ~  2 pair (both pair Cryogenic)
(Germany) Telefunken 6922/E88CC ~ 1 pair (painfully expensive/worth it)
(US/Great Britain) Ediswan CV2492/6922 ~ 2 pair (one pair Cryogenic)
(Hungary) Tungsram 6922/E88CC ~ 1 pair
(Hungary) Tungsram PCC88/7DJ8 ~ 1 pair.

From Cryoset:
(Russia) 6N23N/P-EB ~ 2 pair

(Russia) 6N23P's ~ 2 pair/came with ZMA.    

Gotta love Kevin.  'nuff said.

The Gold Lions are do-able at $60 each, but the RFT EL34's are most intriguing but at $95 each, I think I'll let others on this forum with more experience give them a whirl and then I will copy-cat.  For now, it will be hard to part with the 6P3S-E's.

Roll 'em!

We have some great experience from Mark (I trust), about the RFT's
https://www.decware.com/cgi-bin/yabb22/YaBB.pl?num=1513011646/38#38

Jeff (I trust), pending about the EL34PH Psvane Replica's.

....and I might wing it on Cryo'd Gold Lion KT88's from Kev.
(well, I should not say wing it...I have 7 pair of Kevin's NOS Platinum 6922 tube variants for 2 years now....love them)
.....the 6N23P...put edge to the Tung-Sol KT66's....NOT my 6922 variants.

Oh and PS-if you grow a pair and are not thin skinned .....Kevin, whom I speak to on the phone direct....is pretty cool. I negotiated and bought my Acoustic Zen Adagio's from him. However, it was my doing of course to modify them and make them great.

Sign me up JD! I would love to try a quad or both.

You betcha Stone!  I am getting some hours under my belt on these 6P's from Cryoset, but definitely plan to roll the PSvane EL34PH's in soon.  

Also, as mentioned in another thread, I have a matched quad of RFT EL34's landing on Tuesday.  

So, my work is cut out for me.  Get both the PSvanes, and RFT's in the ZMA for a test run and subsequent commentary.  As if this is really work...ha!

And yes, unfortunately my beloved TJ Full Music KT88's are back for replacement, but thank goodness for the LONG 1 year warranty!  I have plenty of other tubes to roll while those are replaced so won't be a painful wait by any stretch.

Jeff & HK, just what I wanted to read.

JD, is to send/loan me a couple quads: RFT EL34's & Psvane EL34's!

Enjoying my 6P's and seasoning in. I look forward to getting these others from JD and will order the GL KT88's from Ron.

Jeff, I know right? ....this is not work....shear enjoyment + NOS input tube rolling!

Keep the updates coming in due time....as we get to compare notes.  

ZMA RULES.

I use TAD KT66 from cryoset in my Torii Mk III and I find that the midrange does open up with some use. These cyro'd tubes sometimes take longer to breakin than others. I have tried three different KT66: Tung-Sol, Gold Lion and TAD, all from cryoset.com. I definitely like the Tung-Sol the least, and the TAD the best. It's close between the TAD and the Gold Lion. I like the treble better with the TAD.

Of course this is the Torii Mk III and not the ZMA but the tube characteristics should reveal themselves very similarly. And with the ZROCK2 I can make any of the three tube sets I have on hand (TAD KT66, the coin-based Russkies, and the JJ 6CA7) work well. I prefer the JJ 6CA7 when I have a quad that behaves, but can live with either of the three happily.

Yeah, you're going to have fun. My goal actually is not to rotate and adjust different complements of tubes but to find one set that I can anchor my system on. I've been doing the rotating just to explore what the ZROCK2 does to the system. Frankly it's a great partner to my ZTPRE in being the heartbeat of the system. The ZTPRE is the best preamp I've ever heard, bar none, and really is as Steve says: the preamp that really doesn't seem to be there only it makes the music sound better. (Ironically I may have found my way back to preferring the 6N1P in the ZTPRE and the Torii Mk III, these are now besting some pretty fine NOS tubes). The ZROCK2 is the opposite: it's there and you know it colors the sound subtly or broadly and you can then make adjustments almost as if you were a mastering engineer.  

I wish I could center the amplifier with the JJ 6CA7 as tonally that has the best balance intrinsically for my system and also great dynamics and detail. It's unfortunate that after I got centered on them I and others found many to be unreliable, failing way too early. My next set will probably be another set of TAD KT66. They have had shocking longevity and really good sound, and with the ZROCK2 I know I can bring out their best.

You're in for a treat with the ZROCK2. The three Z Amigos I've added to my system, the ZTPRE, ZBIT and ZROCK2 have all exceeded my expectations and really floored me.

Hi Norm,
Mark has a Torii. I have KT88's in my ZMA biased at 64ma.  That is the lowest biased setting I could get these KT88's to sit with the adjustment knobs, but these tubes are designed to handle higher power than KT66's, EL34's, etc.  

I know the ZMA manual suggests no higher than 50-60ma, but you will have no issues even going up to 70ma with these tubes in the ZMA, and you won't hurt the amp or the tubes.  These KT88's are designed to operate at up to 100ma, but not suggested for the ZMA due to the strain on the power supply transformers.  Steve runs these in his ZMA at times as well, and that is what he had in place during this year's Decfest.  I believe his won't bias under 70ma if I recall.  

They are not listed on the website or manual as an option for the ZMA outputs, but I assure you that you can run them in this ZMA - it is perfectly fine.  And they sound phenomenal!

As far as biasing the ZMA high, a couple years ago Steve told me that he biased high, which pushed the output transformers hard.  However, since he owns the repair shop he wasn't worried if he burned something out.  At that time he didn't recommend high biasing generally,  He may have modified his position given time but I would monitor the temperature of the transformers when running high bias.

I ran a quad of Tung Sol EL34s in my ZMA and I found them similar to the 6P3Ss.  I went back to the 6P3Ss though.  My guess would be that the KT88s would give the most difference, if that's what you're after.

If the 6P3Ss are in fact bass shy (which I haven't noticed) the ZROCK2 should help.  Waiting ...  

This may have already been mentioned somewhere in this thread, but I just read in the ZMA manual that KT88s are listed as a tube substitute for the amp.

That's interesting.  I guess if someone absolutely loved the KT88s it'd be worth having the amp biased that way.  I always default to what Steve thinks, so I'm with you in keeping my ZMA "stock."

When the ZMA was first introduced, Steve recommended biasing at 60ma.  (It is even shown at 60ma in the manual picture where he says to bias at 50ma.)  We had a discussion on the Forum regarding bias and transformer temperatures we were seeing.  I was worried that mine were running a little hot.  Around this time Steve set the recommended bias in the manual at 50ma.  I'm sure there is margin in all of this.  The highest transformer temperature that I measured was about 125 F while I think they are designed to run at 145 F.  I'm sure I'm a bit more conservative than I need to be.  I even installed a small fan behind my ZMA just to help with cooling.

i'm wondering that since the KT88's maybe a bias challenge for the ZMA, should I get the GL KT66's or the GL KT77's?  Anyone with experience with the KT77's vs KT66's vs KT88's?

I have been going back and forth between my TAD KT66's and 6P3S's and I find that the KT66's have a much more punchy bass but the midrange seems a tad restrained.  The 6P3S's have plenty of bass and crystal-clear midrange (vocals, guitar, piano).  I'm sticking with the 6P3S's for everyday listening (for now..)

However, never being satisfied, I ordered some RFT EL34’s and should have them mid-month...

Stone, I'm glad to hear that.  They really are a bargain.  I think there are plenty out there too.  I have a couple non-cryo'd quads from a Russian seller and they sound the same as Ron's to me.  That said, Ron's are one of the best deals on these tubes.

I'm looking forward to your impressions on the KT88s.  That's a tube I'm tempted to try other than the JJ 6CA7s (I think) that Lon likes in his Torii (other than the tube life problems they seem to have).

I have my Ediswans in for inputs, Norm. These past 11 days, approx. 75 to 80 hours....I've been running my Mullard E188CC/7308's with the 6P output quad. Talk about blooming midrange to blooming midrange... . Edi's are warming up! .....Edi's as we know, are special in their own right...but more than just subtle/differences to my NOS Plat' Mull's.

JD sent me....might have today(?):

"I sent the psvane 5881, closer match to the 6sp3 you guys have been trying. Curious to see what you think.  I've had the RFT in for longer than the 5881's but was surprised at the nice sound the 5881's produced.

Enjoy.

JD"

Arch, .....my ZROCK2, is in Quality Control now! .....getting closer.

Nice! Now, that is a price I like!

Hope, their is a difference between them and the Reflector 6P's (for me)....and hear which ones I prefer or both. I know input wise...I could not be without my Mullard E188CC/7308 or the Ediswans (why I have two pair each of them).


....and I am running my ZMA direct from ZDSD with Platinum Ediswan pair (Cryo'd) CV2492/6922 ....as inputs.

My Audio Research Line Stage only goes in when I want very serious SLAM/DENSITY. The ZMA is a whole other beast with this FET Hybrid single tube Line Stage (I use my Mullard).

Ha!  Ill be right behind you there Stone on the "kick-off the weekend" brew.  A little toastier here at 73 degrees though  8-)

Got 18 inches of snow and it's -10 windchill here but I'm not complaining...Why did I ever leave LA? In Minnesota I think they call this spring. Trying to listen to tunes but my amps are just not really cooperating at the moment. Not sure if it's a power issue, amp issue or speaker issue...tough to narrow down. I appreciate buying products from people that you can talk to and help you with trouble shooting, can't wait for all to be back to normal.
Having a Lagunitas Little Sumpin Sumpin and watching some FA cup to relax.
Lon, my favorite coffee in the world is from the state of Oaxaca, Mexico absolutely delicious!

Stay warm fellas

JD

Craft beverages and music are made for each other.  Whether it's coffee (woot woot!!), beer, wine, spirits, or anything else...  it's just enjoyable to sip while you listen.  

Speaking of that, Lon, Ill send you a PM.  I have an idea that might help pull some of my coffee customers over to view the FB page in some type of collaborative post.  

Right now, have a the PSvane EL-34-PH's warmed up, listening to a nice blues playlist on Qobuz (yeah, you read that right...  I used a work around to get it streaming despite being in the U.S.)  and the ZMA/Hegeman combo is in harmony.  I put the Hegeman's back in for a bit as I did some furniture shifting in the room and had to re-position them.  TGIF!  Cheers, ya'll!  

P.S.:  Damn, that first one went down easy

Great that they arrived Stone, hope you enjoy them.

JD

Stone,
That is really bizarre and I am at a loss here.  I received my RFT EL-34's earlier in the week and I just popped one in with no problem to see.   I have rolled in 3 different sets of EL-34's and all slid in easily.  The pattern of the pins is exactly the same between all of these tube types, just a different number of pins.  Can you see a physical difference in the circumference of the tube pins between your 6P's and the RFTs and 5881's?  I assume you don't have a micrometer?

All of this is so strange.  Before cramming anything it, I would run it by Steve.  It maybe be the sockets need good break-in with a little elbow grease with these new tube types, but I would get his advice first, just in case.  Especially since your 6P's are treating you so well at the moment.  No rush, right?  ;)

Jeff, yes, the pins all line up and to the naked eye, sans micrometer, the circumference looks the same on the tube pins and distance between.

I think I need to just elbow grease/break these sockets in (as I mentioned in my possible solution above and your mention Jeff), with a disposable tube....my Audio Art EL34's....lucky I have on hand....from my story above.

I wanted to read if anyone encountered such a tight fit as to make you scratch your head in disbelief?!

I will enjoy my 6P's today...and get to breaking in the sockets as described in a day or two. I will work one socket methodically and see how it goes.

Quote:


Remember the pin straightener a few months back?  Steve warned against bent pins loosening up the sockets.  I'd be very careful "breaking in" the sockets.  I'd want to know first if the issue is the extra friction caused by extra pins or if the pin diameter of the new tubes was larger than the ones you've been using.  As Jeff said, check pin diameter with calipers before going too far.  It's amazing what an extra thousandth or so, times 9 can do.

YES! Thank you Archie.....SO NO GO for me on loosening the sockets.

The tube pin diameter's might be bigger?  I will investigate further.

Jeff's first suggestion of that issue and now you mentioning the pin straightener warning...........I will heed.