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Donnie needs help (Read 11138 times)
Donnie
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Donnie needs help
09/20/14 at 20:51:48
 
I've been hanging out around here for 4 or 5 years now and never really paid any attention to all of the tube rolling information. It never really interested me as long as music came out of my speakers. Everything else was PFM to me.
Well, now I'm asking what the "Hot Setup" is for my Torii III?
I'm down to one channel because the 5U4G tube decided to plum blow up.
I have run this thing at least 4 hours a day for the last 4 years, so I have gotten my money's worth out of everything.
So I'm wondering what to replace everything with? I figure that if I replace everything at once, I've got a few years of uninterrupted playing ahead in front of me.
So tell me what to buy and where to buy it from. I really can't discern sounds the way you all talk about, just play it loud for me and I'm good.
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Lon
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Re: Donnie needs help
Reply #1 - 09/20/14 at 20:57:24
 
Donnie,

I'd recommend as a cost-effective and nice sounding rectifier fix that you order a pair of the Valve Art 274B rectifiers, preferably cryo'd, those at www.cryoset.com are very good. That will get you up and running again.

Your power tubes probably are due for replacement, and I'd suggest checking out KT-66 tubes. I've been using Genelax Gold Lion KT-66 with great results. I also get these cryo'd from cryoset.com

Your input and regulation tubes may well be fine. If you want to replace the regulation I'd recommend RCA OB3 and RCA OA2 tubes, that's a good combination I find. And input tubes. . . after long years of experimenting and finding cryo'd 6N1P to be the stuff, I have shifted to vintage 7308 input tubes.

Just my two cents. . . I think you could do this in waves and obviously you need to get a pair of rectifiers, but after that try the power tubes and you may be set again for years and not have to replace the other tubes.
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will
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Re: Donnie needs help
Reply #2 - 09/20/14 at 21:29:22
 
Sounds like good advice and a nice blend of tubes from Lon. Especially if you are changing from the stock Ruby rectifiers to Valve Arts, cryo'd VA 274s are really nice tubes and inexpensive, and they do tonally what the Rubies do better.

I guess I would have to ask if there was anything you want to do to change the sound you had. Denser or leaner, more open or warmer...deeper bass, or less bass....this sort of thing. Then if so, what changes would you like, and what are the tubes you have now?

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Donnie
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Re: Donnie needs help
Reply #3 - 09/20/14 at 22:17:16
 
Will, What I have sounds fine to me, I'm really not much of a good judge of sound quality. I've been at Dec Fest listening to music and people have ran into the room telling me to turn the music down because it was clipping. I have no idea of what they were talking about, it sounded fine to me. Lead ears I guess, I just like listening to music.
What I have now is whatever came with the Torii when I bought it.
Like I said before, this stuff is "Pure F#$*g Magic" to me, I have no idea of how it works,  :)
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will
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Re: Donnie needs help
Reply #4 - 09/21/14 at 00:32:02
 
Well then, I agree with Lon. Especially since you are SOL without the rectifiers, why not order the Valve Art 274B from cryoset to get back into the music?

Then if you want to try for more volume.....You likely have 6N1Ps as input tubes (probably has a diamond on the side with a number in it). If so, by changing to a 7DJ8, and if your MKIII is like mine, you will get more volume before clipping (distortion). You could use 6922, 6DJ8 or 7308s too for the same reason, but for the money 7DJ8s can be really good, costing less than a number of new 6922s, and typically way lower than good NOS 6922/7308s, though I really like 7308s too. I think this is a nice, warm but open 7DJ8 that wouldn't hurt too bad to try the tube type. http://www.tubemonger.com/MP_MINT_NOS_Tungsram_PCC88_Jan_Feb_MAR1971_Hungary_p/7...
In my experience, these guys stand behind their tubes if they have problems also.

As Lon suggests, I think I recall hearing from Ron @ cryoset that we might expect 3-5000 hours from power tubes....that starting to sound "sluggish" is a good indicator of losing it. I am using Genalex KT66 also, but in my MKIV. If you check them out, it may be worth asking Ron at cryoset whether he thinks the Tungsol KT66 or the Genalex will give you more volume. They are both nice, though I prefer the Genalex too, but they draw quite a bit more current, and I don't know what this means in terms of volume. I was not paying attention to that when I changed to the Genalex.

Maybe someone else here can speak to that.
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All Modified: PSA-P5>DIY Strip/Shunyata Defender>RevolutionMacMini/Amarra-KTE Singxer/Gustardx20pro/ZBIT/CSP3>OldChen 300B/845, Torii IV>Omega S-A-H-O monitors/SVS Micro3000>Pi PCs-DIY PCs, ICs, USB, I2S, Speaker-SR and aluminum w ball bearing feet
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SteveC
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Re: Donnie needs help
Reply #5 - 09/21/14 at 05:22:34
 
My $0.02 (and worth only 2 cents)... get a new set of everything from Decware.   I'm not "tube adventurous" (yet).  But you know you'd be getting getting a matched set of tubes from Decware.  (matching is the most important criteria I think)


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mark58
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Re: Donnie needs help
Reply #6 - 09/21/14 at 12:16:16
 
OK Donnie,  I see you're online now.  Here's how I have my Torii MK IV tubed...

Kenrad WW II 5U4Gs (previously I had 1950's RCA 5U4G's that work well too)

Amperex 7308's

Seimen's/RFT EL-34 output tubes  I bought the amp with Tung Sol KT-66's but switched quickly, probably before break in had ocurred, to the EL-34s...I like them better and have bought 2 NOS back up Quads.  I know most folks here have switched to the KT-66's...I'll try them again in the future...maybe...hehe

I bought a bunch of 1950s RCA OA3s for the Torii and ZP3, they are very cheap. As for the OC2...I'm still using what Steve sent...not sure what it is.  Well, that's it...my two cents.  Like someone said, the tubes that Steve provides are a great value and make beautiful music...in my CSP3 preamp I still have the stock tubes in place.  The tubes I've listed, you may find are more than you're willing to spend.  Also don't forget, just as important are your speakers and sources.  They will factor greatly into your sound and thus, your tube preferences.  Mark.
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"The man that hath no music in himself, nor is not moved with the concord of sweet sounds, is fit for treasons, deceptions, and spoils;
The motions of his spirit are dull as night and his affections dark as Hell. Let no such man be trusted." William Shakespeare
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Donnie
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Why does it hurt
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Re: Donnie needs help
Reply #7 - 09/21/14 at 17:17:43
 
I just ordered a set of Valve Art 274B's from Cryoset. I'm going to do a little more research before I order anything else.
I didn't realise how much time I spent listening to music until I couldn't.
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Lon
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Re: Donnie needs help
Reply #8 - 09/21/14 at 17:26:38
 
Donnie, I think you'll like those rectifiers, especially after 100 hours or so when they're all they can be. (Bass blooms!)

You'll be back in business before too long. Cryoset is a very nice company, and I go to them first for tubes if I can.
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mark58
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Re: Donnie needs help
Reply #9 - 09/21/14 at 17:33:23
 
So Lon,  are you running the Valve Art 274s in your Torii now?  I have the one  Steve sent in the CSP3 and wondered how they would sound compared to the 5U4Gs I've been using in my Torii MK IV.  Mark.
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"The man that hath no music in himself, nor is not moved with the concord of sweet sounds, is fit for treasons, deceptions, and spoils;
The motions of his spirit are dull as night and his affections dark as Hell. Let no such man be trusted." William Shakespeare
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Lon
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"Love without
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Re: Donnie needs help
Reply #10 - 09/21/14 at 17:49:39
 
Mark, I'm using the Valve Art 274Bs in both the Torii Mk III in my second syaten, and the Torri Mk II in my Dad's system. For the money they are excellent tubes. Can you do better with NOS tubes that cost more? Sure. But I decided they make a very good foundation for other tube rolling. In my main system Torii Mk III I am using vintage RCA rectifiers that are better imo for THAT system, which is the system I want to "be all it can be." But I have another pair of the Valve Art 274Bs in the closet as a backup!

These 274Bs create a big bold soundfield with a clear and vibrant sound. And don't hold the detail back. I was impressed with the non-cryo'd pair I used and asked Ron at cryoset.com to consider carrying them. He did and I bet he's glad as I know he's selling pairs.
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mark58
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Re: Donnie needs help
Reply #11 - 09/21/14 at 18:08:50
 
Thanks Lon,  I like where I am now...all components, cables, speakers and tubes burned in...in both systems.  The only rolling I do now is about once monthly I change the front two or three tubes in the ZP3.  I cringe at the thought of another 100 hour break in but what I may do in the future is take the CSP3 out of the chain and use it's well broken in Valve Arts 274B in one channel of the Torii making comparison to the 5U4Gs easy with a Mono recording.  Or maybe just put in a RCA 5U4G into the CSP3 so I can more easily compare one tube to the other using the voltage setting knobs.  Knowing me, this won't happen soon if at all.  Mark.
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"The man that hath no music in himself, nor is not moved with the concord of sweet sounds, is fit for treasons, deceptions, and spoils;
The motions of his spirit are dull as night and his affections dark as Hell. Let no such man be trusted." William Shakespeare
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Lon
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"Love without
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Philip K. Dick

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Re: Donnie needs help
Reply #12 - 09/21/14 at 18:59:04
 
I hear ya Mark. I'm chililng on the rolling etc. for the most part, though I am considering moving the second system I have upstairs (pretty much unused lately) to my Dad's and vice versa. I'm listening to my Dad's system more than any other so why not have better sound for the three of us? A pain in the butt for me but I may do that this coming month.
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Donnie
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Why does it hurt
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Re: Donnie needs help
Reply #13 - 09/26/14 at 23:55:45
 
The Valve Art tubes from Cryoset arrived today. Music again!
There seems to be a lot of more detail to my music now, kind of sparkly.
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Lon
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"Love without
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Re: Donnie needs help
Reply #14 - 09/27/14 at 00:28:12
 
Awesome Donnie! You must have missed your music!

Yes, those Valve Arts are lively! They'll settle in over the next weeks into a sound that has a bit more body. I have learned to really like them. Smiley
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