Hello, all!  Greetings from hot, dry New Mexico ... this is my first post.  I have been upgrading my 20 y.o. system, the better to enjoy my music collection in my retirement.  The Bose 901s are sold (I know, I know, don't say it) and replaced with GoldenEar Triton Two towers.  I have upgraded my Rega P3 beyond recognition, and bought an OPPO 105.  So, how to replace my Nakamichi A/V 8 receiver, running in stereo mode?  I was seriously considering PrimaLuna, or Mystere, or Rogue, or Cary (I was interested in tubes) when a Google search brought me to these forums, and .... here I am.  I couldn't decide between the ToriiIV and the ZMA, and after an e-mail to Steve, he provided a very informative reply regarding which amp would work best with my speakers.  So, last week I ordered a ZMA (it is still a mystery to my wife).  I was amused reading the early posts in this topic, regarding the impatient, nail biting anticipation of the early ZMA buyers watching the waiting list.  Now the shoe is on my foot, and I check the list twice every day.  There are now only three new orders ahead of me, before my parts are pulled. (I hope it doesn't hurt.) I do have one question for you all, since I live where the dust blows.  Has anyone purchased or fabricated a plexiglas or other dust cover for a Decware amp?  If so, any recommendations?  I will be here regularly ... after the ZMA, the phono pre might be next.

Thanks, Beowulf -

I ordered the ZMA with the transformer balanced XLR inputs, after Steve wrote that the upgrade would take the ZMA/OPPO 105/Triton combo to a different place.  I'm looking forward to that different place.  My tt/stage will connect to the unbalanced RCA inputs.  I understand that the balanced and unbalanced inputs are not switched and are both active when the power is on, so I can only plug in one set of cables at a time.  The OPPO will be a sort of preamp for all my digital sources (disc, tv, laptop, ipod dock).  The tt/stage will plug directly into the ZMA.  I suppose that a good tube preamp with XLR and RCA inputs might be that much better.  Any ideas?

Rick,

I too run the Oppo BDP-105 as a Preamp, and run directly to the ZMA.

The XLR inputs are a good choice - at first I had only the RCA inputs, but I wanted to try Pro-sumer level Reel to Reel and had to have the XLR added to do this - which sounded good. But then I tried the XLR from the Oppo and it was *WOW* good. The Oppo uses a proper differential XLR output like pro level gear does, and the Mystery Amp sure liked the voltage!

As for preamp - I don't have one (yet), and I honestly feel the XLR inputs got me what I was expecting from a preamp. That said, I have put a bug in Steve's ear about an XLR preamp. But Steve moves at the speed of inspiration...which means it could be years before we actually see an XLR, switchable preamp. I'd run your setup as is for now and see how you feel about it first.

So - Steve burns in the amps well before shipping them out. The big caps cause them to sound edgy and thin until the caps form property. My amp didn't have this kind of break in, and the first 25 hours were painful. After that, it played like a steam engine gathering speed. I felt the amp hit sweet spots (leveled up!) around 125 hours and again at 250 hours. You'll notice that steam engine like power, and the amp will be clear, dynamic, and just simply *seem louder*.  After that it's pretty much leveled out and is very consistent. I'm up over 500 hours (stopped keeping track after 350 or so) now, and the amp sounds great right off the bat, and amazing after 30 minutes of warm up.

I'd love to hear your thoughts when you get everything together - this amp has been a real revelation to my listening - I can't imagine anything better honestly.

Stone, what's your source, and what kind of XLR output is it? I think that makes a difference as Steve's mentioned. I was surprised that the Oppo uses a differential output, but there it is.

Lots of good advice and info from Beowulf and Lonely Raven, but for now I will be using the 105 as a digital pre into the XLRs, and my phono stage into the RCAs.  I might think about a preamp down the road if I decide to hook up my old nakamichi casette deck or a tuner.  My next step is probably to retire my elderly Creek phonostage and get something more suitable for the ZMA.

Stone, I think you will like the Tritons.  I compared them to Focal and B&W, and several other floor standers in the same price range and thought the others required a separate subwoofer to have the same sonic impact.

The big news for me is that my amp is at the testing stage, after construction began earlier in the week.  Now I am getting anxious - how long is the testing and burn in, 70-80 hours?  If so, my ZMA might ship next week?

I think Steve backed off on the KT120 because the current draw is so much for the power supply. I think he originally said as long as you keep it under 60ma you can use any tubes you want.

It's funny you brought this up though, during the Tape Fest I saw a Post-It with the math drawn up for KT120, and it looked like the numbers didn't jibe if I was reading it correctly. Which I guess explains why KT120 isn't included in the manual.

I'd still run it past Steve and see what he says - what I've said above is my bad memory and speculation.  :)

I LOVE the sound of the Torii Mk III with the cryo'd Tung-Sol (reissue) KT-66 tubes. I bought this set from Mike here on the board, they only had about a thousand hours on them. He prefers the Genalex, and I decided to order a cryo'd quad of these and should have them tomorrow. This way I'll have a quad of one or the other brand to try in the Torii Mk II that sounds so great in my system at my parents' place.

RickVee asked:
"I suppose that a good tube preamp with XLR and RCA inputs might be that much better.  Any ideas?"

Hello Rick.
Do either your phono amp or your BluRay player have gain controls? Do you know how much is the maximum voltage they can put out?  Do you know the output impedance of either device?

It seems to me that there are three purposes for a preamp. Adjust voltage, impedance match a source to your power amp, convenience as a switch box.  

I ask the panel, am I right in thinking Rick has impedance matching covered now that he has the XLR transformers on his power amp inputs?

As for voltage adjustment, this is a nice way to control the sound, but if you already have gain controls on both of your sources then I don't see that an additional gain stage can help your sound, unless one of your sources turned up to full volume is still under volted for it's best possible sound.  

- Brian

Having some fun tomorrow night....pitting the SE84CS against the ZMA with an without my CSP3......... .

I was able to switch her in early today....and as much as I like my ZMA's power an lower end and head room... . I still love my SE84CS! The lit from within qualities of it...do it for me. I have the CSP3 dialed into it nicely. I am going to keep it in for awhile then put the ZMA back in an then the Super Zen CKC.  Musical - musical and musical!   -Stone

I was just notified that my ZMA has shipped, so I just have to wait for it to make the long (but not perilous) journey from Peoria to Albuquerque.  More to come ....

Cool Rick! You're just days away from hearing this ZMA masterpiece.

I put the ZMA back in (on Saturday) after doing a tour of my SE84CS an CKC. Ohhh, I love (an missed) the ZMA in the System with my CSP3.... .

Someone else I'm sure will chime in here. Maybe Steve will too.
With negative feedback in the Quick Silver you can drive the hell out of it with power.... .

But, in regards to "...if I could urge a tad more power ...through the ZMA..."

This is the age old question? More power though...LESS FIDELITY.

I could own the the 88's or
http://www.vac-amps.com/productPages/Phi200.html

.....but I won't give up the Fidelity of Steve's Amps for the Power.

My CSP3 with Jupiter Bee's wax caps...pushes definition quite well...that is a great option...I love mine with ZMA (NO negative feedback an clean power design).

Plus, this begs the question. How loud do you listen? My ZMA with CSP3, when I want to, can do 88db SPL peaks....with fidelity that beats said above Amps.  
The CSP3 is a Transparent ass kicker of Definition an Weight through my ZMA.

Thanks for the input.  That pretty much matches what I assumed.  I thought negative feedback had to be in there somewhere as a crutch.  Usually the designers who use feedback don't talk about it on their web pages unless it is zero.

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For me the ZMA as designed gives me plenty of volume.  It can go louder without any apparent negative impact to fidelity than I care to listen to.  My max volume in my small room is at about 80dB.  The room is very quiet so 80 seems loud.  I pushed it once with no bad effects up to about 90db but that was way too much for me.  Big impact sounds happen all the time that likely go above 90dB but I don't count those.  The amp is doing just fine and my JansZens are only 87dB.  The only interest in more power would be if I had a bigger room when I retire and need more output.  Like most of Steve's customers I won't give up fidelity to achieve that however.

Hi, all --
The monsoon season has arrived in NM, and so has my ZMA (10 days ago).  We had an inch of rain last night (nothing for the eastern half of the USA), but as much as we have had for the first half of the year.

The ZMA is all that I expected and a worthy replacement for my old Nakamichi receiver.  Full, unadorned sound no matter whether I am playing Palestrina on BluRay audio, or Pink Floyd on my new vinyl repressing.  Despite having no controls on my phono pre, the ZMA has enough volume (92 dB speakers) on "Dark Side of the Moon" to drive my 90 lb. pitbull, Satchel, to the other end of the house (wife not home of course).

Even broadcast and satellite radio, with my NAD M4 tuner connected directly via rca, is superior.  As everything burns in nicely, I have one naive question for the group.  Since the amp has both rca and balanced inputs, not switchable, only one at a time, can I leave the cables in place, so long as only one source is powered on?  I ask because the maker of my balanced cables says they are temperamental, and do not like to be moved around, and will be cranky for a day or so after being replugged in.  This sounds a bit "barmy" to me, but ... any opinions/info would be appreciated.

Edited:


The RCA inputs supersede the XLR inputs when both are plugged in. I think Steve said he would unplug the RCA before using the XLR. I'd double check with him, as I could be remembering that wrong.

Once I went XLR, I never looked back - such a great improvement with the Oppo and Reel to Reel. The ZMA really likes that voltage. But if you had to swap between the two regularly, maybe it's time to look into a preamp?

Stone, do they make an XLR version of those Kimber? While I don't see me buying $1500 ICs anytime soon. I might grab something better than my $300 Morrow cables if I find a great deal somewhere.

Now that I think about it, I've not tried the DirectStream via RCA at all. Maybe I should at least give that a spin as well. The lower voltage on the DS has been slightly disappointing though....

I have been breaking my system in for a while now and i still am not real happy with it.  I have Martin Logan ESL's and in addition tomthe Mystery Amp have added the phono stage ZP3 and the pre-amp csp3.  I still need more volume occasionally.  I am forced to back off the volume due,to clipping.  Given all of the tubes involved I am wondering where to start in swapping input or outputs to get the most gain.  I would appreciate any advise.  I don't want to buy new speakers.

Raven thanks for the advise. I can not really change the room.  It is in a workshop in my garage.  I am way out in the country and play it with the garage door open.  The speakers do not have any back wall at all and I suspect I am losing a lot of sound.  If I was to close the door then sure it is pretty loud.  I guess maybe a box type speaker might be better in this situation.  I sure do love those ESLs though.  I listen to a lot of hard rock and if I were to get new speakers I would want something that had big woofers.  It seems like todays speaker designs usually have much smaller woofers than the speakers of the 70's.  I run a sub with the ESL's and dislike the disconnect of having to set the cutoff.  Thank for the chart it is pretty neat.

Farm Boss. I am sorry I am not home to try it, but in my Torii MKIII 6N1P inputs put out a lot less volume than 6922s, 623NP, 7DJ8 or 6DJ8s. I have not compared in the CSP3 for volume, only for sound. But it may give you a hit to change the input and the outputs if they are 6N1P. If you don't have some inputs around to play with, I can check after the weekend if you are not in too big a hurry.

Love the suggestions.  Will I am looking into changing the output tubes on the preamp.  That seems like a pretty inexpensive option.  Any suggestions for the brand to buy?  Also I am now researching the Tekton Pendragons.  I know how this will end.  Any thoughts on this speaker vs the Zu lineup?

Will, I really appreciate that you would try this out for me.  Thank you.  Great idea though.  Meanwhile I have been playing around with the two different speaker outputs.  I have now moved them to the inside terminals also I changed my speaker placement and subwoofer settings..  My sound improved dramatically especially the low end.  I think I will pass on any speaker updates for now.

I'm torn between starting my own thread now that the ZMA has it's own forum, or just continuing on this one. This will be a brief post since I'm at work and only have a couple minutes while I'm on hold with support.

I picked up these speakers form Stone of Tone yesterday - got them setup, and right off the bat I knew they are something special.








As I said, I only have a minute, but here are my initial impressions of the speakers.

I quickly set them up, and right away knew I was on to something good. I had them setup just inside of my venerable MG-944, and once I realized I was hearing good things, I pushed the MG944 back to give the Gallo Reference 3.1 some room to project. I've currently have the 3.1s setup about 3' from the back wall, and pointed straight into the room, no toe-in yet (the manual said try both ways). I don't have the Reference sub amp for these speakers, so I've currently got the ZMA hooked up to the top binding posts which run the MTM + Sub all off the ZMA.

My setup, as most of you already knonw:
Lenovo Mini-PC with Windows 2012 Server in Core Mode with Audiophile Optomizer software - running Foobar2000  in a Bitperfect format (no processing). All music off my NAS, mostly FLAC rips of my own CDs, plus some DSD tracks from Blue Coast Records and Opus3.

USB from PC to PS Audio DirectStream using Pangea .5m Silver USB Cable
XLR outs (Morrow audio - whatever their $300 1m cable is) to the ZMA
My version of the Decware STyx to the Gallo Reference 3.1
Everything powered by a PS Audio P10 and Pangea or Wireworld power cables.

First off, the tweeters on these speakers are amazing. This 300 degree dispersion is very musical instrument like, much like the HR-1 radial driver, but all the way up to 50khz!

Acoustic instruments sound much more realistic and lifelike. I played several acoustic guitar pieces and violin pieces, and they were mind-bendingly realistic. I felt like I could hear the wood resonate in the room just like a real instrument would!

Mids on these speakers are only OK. While the instruments, especially acoustic ones sound amazing, sharp and solid of image, I'm finding the vocals on all recordings seem to be a little fuzzy around the edges and more in the background of the sound stage.

Bass - this is the weak link. Even with the ZMA grunt and torque, the bass is good, but not as fast and dynamic as the MG-944. While the Gallos seem to have more deeper punch due to the bigger drivers, it just feels slow on the attack. The fantastic tweeters help make the acoustic bass sound more lifelike (you hear all the high frequency bowing or slapping or fingers sliding up and down the strings), but it's not enough to make up for the lack of speed.

I'm going to play with these speakers a bit - they do some things better than the MG-944; in my L-shaped room, the 300 degree wrap around tweeters help my imaging compared to the laser beam of the 944. The life like reproduction of acoustic instruments is amazing. But the 944 are more efficient, have a better speed and attack, and simply amazing bass for an MTM design without sub. The Decware speakers in general are simply amazing for the money, that I have to go to speakers costing twice the price to only start to do things better!

Final notes: the Gallos are 88db speakers, with the ZMA I can get them to my usual listening level, which is under 100db. I'm absolutely fine with these 88db speakers on the ZMA. As mentioned, the Reference 3.1 can have a Gallo designed sub-amp hooked up directly to the subs, which I think could be the missing link to getting the bass to keep up with the MG-944 - but then again, that's extra expense, and might not do anything but make the existing bass louder for all I know. More research on this in the coming weeks. So right now these aren't replacing the venerable 944, but they are on par with them (in my room and setup), and do some things better for me.

I can only answer some of those - great questions all!

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I was at Steve's shop while he was setting up my amp, and he swapped tubes - there was quite an arc due to the caps holding so much juice - not good!

It's my feeling (but I'm not Steve, nor do I work for Decware - so take what I say with a grain of salt), that if you pull the power plug while music is playing, it will drain the the caps getting those last few bars of music out. I don't think the caps would arc much if at all during a tube swap after that. Again, I don't know if this is safe for the amp, but it's what I would do if I wanted to swap tubes fast.

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I don't think so, isn't that more of a 12AX7 type tube?

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I've always been taught to *never* run a tube amp without a load. Plus you might accidentally short out the cables or have some other accident while swapping. Just power down, swap fast, power up. I don't really think you loose more than 5 minutes of warm up time at worst. It's not like you'd have to warm up a full hour to get it going again if it's already (literally) warm.

Again, I'd give Steve a call on all of these questions. I'm no expert.  I just play one on TV.  ;D

LR..the Gallo's sound promising, but I wonder if you would be better off with the most recent version, the Strada 2.  It's my understanding that the midrange was improved on these, and the tweeter maintains the same excellence that you describe.  Bass has been delegated to subwoofers (more likely mid-bass units vs. true subs).  

The dude over at Mapleshade (Pierre?) is a huge fan of the Strada 2 (I always thought that the tweaks Mapleshade offers are a little 'off the wall', but when you listen to their recordings, the sound fantastic, so they certainly know what they are doing).  Apparently they use these speakers as monitors for their recordings.

The progression was as follows: Gallo 3.1 (pictured in LR's photo)-->Gallo 3.5 (which included many upgrades, but was in a similar chassis as the 3.1's)-->Strada 2 (which separated the midrange/tweeter from the chassis)

Below is a picture showing the 3.5 (left) with the Strada 2 (right):

I was originally looking at getting the Strada 2 for my home theater setup - I have a 21" subwoofer with 2000 watts behind it, and multiple ways of doing an electronic crossover. But when Stone's Gallos went up for sale I jumped on them. If I decide that I do only want the Galls for HT use, then I might flip the bigger Reference 3.1 and get the Strada 2 and build my own hardwood stands for them.

Right now I'm still enjoying the Reference 3.1 - but it makes me wonder if the newer drivers would have a better midrange that I'm craving.

@ Dave ~ Thanks for the clarification!  

Anybody heard the different models and what were your impressions?  I believe one of the newer  model (separate sub, but forgot the specific model) went over very well in a 6moons review and seemed like a great bang for the buck speaker.