I have had my MK3 for about 9 months now and it sounds wonderful!!!  Though I have nothing to compare it with except when I had the Rachel for a bit.  The catch phrase "The last amp you'll ever want!" may not hold true with the MK3 since the MK4 is supposedly 20-30% better???  Maybe it is but I like the MK3 and not prepared to pay for upgrades, new tubes and shipping charges.  I want to improve what I already own.  I know, if you are an audiophile or just obsessed, you'll thirst for the last bit of % improvement at any cost.  Oh well.

Here is my system:  Flac>Squeezebox Classic>Channel Island Audio DAC>MK3>Omen Def.  I have upgraded speaker and audio cables.

1) Would a new power cable for MK3 improve system sound over stock one? How much do you really need to spend?

2) Where should I begin my tube rolling for the most bang-for-the-buck? If output, should I stick with EL34's?  Or 5u4 rectifiers?  I want to find and try 0b3's?  

3) Any other suggestions are appreciated.

Thanks

will,

Thanks and that is a great Q.  When I first heard my MK3 paired with Omen Def, the sound was flat, dull and, actually, sounded horrible.  I was frustrated and couldn't believe it.  But I found out that all recordings on CD's (I rip to Flac) are not created equal.  For example, Peter Gabriel So sounds great and Us is just dull and flat. Other recordings sound great while others flat. I upgraded my speaker cables and that made a bit of difference.

I listen primarily to Rock; 70's thru 90's.  I am trying to get a very good signature sound for Rock music and make so-so recordings sound better and good recordings sound great.  I realize there are many variables involved and I can tube roll and tube roll and tube roll...  I am trying to maximize my effort and keep costs to an acceptable minimum.  I just think tube rolling can get me to that place faster.

Might as well ask what speaker cables and Ics you are using too???

Please don't get me wrong, I am sure the new changes in the Torii sound great and may be better the old one, however, I do wonder if (please don't get upset anybody) if part of the reason for changing the Torii is to separate it from the Rachel amp in the Decware line up. In other words, some clever marketing which is not a bad thing. Now a new tube set amplifier rounds out the mix offered. It seems as it will be presented as more of a KT66 amp that can also run El34, but won't sound as good as the KT66. Worthy of upgrading from Torii III? Not for me. The Torii, is the last amp I would ever want!

That makes me ever more curious now to try the Gold Lion KT77 (the bias is supposed to be the same as the el34) in the Torii III and also the more expensive Psvane EL34PH. I am waiting till winter, when I listen much more. A couple on the forum swear the Kt88 sounds better then the El34 in the Torri (can't find it now) but the bias won't be as close and even despite not using the CCE mod.

That said, its hard to beat the sweet midrange of the El34. If anyone should try the Gold Lion KT77, it should be you Lon  ;) as they say it provides more bass. However, it is also more linear, which to me means less mid range emphasis which I like.

OC and Lon,

Interesting thoughts, though I am not altogether sure the theory holds up (but it could). After all, before the Torii Monos there were only two power tube types for the whole lineup. And the Torii MkII came out of the original Torii, and the MkIII was a refinement of the MkII.

Interestingly for the MkIV, the Monos and Mystery amps had become part of Steve's language...but the MkIV is clearly that...the next iteration of the Torii following the MkIII.

From my conversations with Steve the KT66 just emerged as a tube he was liking a lot in the MkIV as he was refining/testing/voicing. And as he went further with it, the more he seemed to feel good about it. He had done a lot of power tube play with the Mystery amp if I recall, and I bet this is what opened that tube exploration creative door wide as he got closer to finishing the MkIV. And that the EL34 works really well (it was the Torii design basis), and that the KT66 gave such a different and very compelling sound...the two amps for one is a a sweet thing.

Makes me wonder further about the KT77 in the MkIII too OC. I also agree with you both that the MkIII is so good that there is no real reason to go further for me...Luckily, I need another amp, something I have wanted for a few years now, and I am glad it will be the MKIV.

I hope you get up the nerve to try the other tubes OC! I did use the Gold Lion KT77s in the Rachel I had for a while...I think they took a loooonngg time to burn in, and I think they were very articulate and solid if I recall. Dimm memories.

RJR,

My questions are in hopes of steering you in the direction you want to go most efficiently. There are thousands of dollars of legitimate improvements you could make (power treatment, room treatment, cables, preamp, caps, vibration control, tubes, and on), but you clearly want the most for the least toward a more satisfying sound.

No doubt we can help steer you better with a better idea of what needs changing. There are so many ways to adjust the Torii!

My system sounds great with all kinds of music.

Hey Dave,

Glad that the amp has bloomed for you and allowed you to really enjoy the sound!

I have been using 6N1Ps from Ron Sheldon for some time and love them. Every time I try a 6922 in I just don't like the sound as well, and I don't seem to need any more power. But I know others really like the 6922 in these amps and I'm glad you have discovered a pair that lets you utilize all the power the Torii can dish out!

Hi Lon, Would you please comment on your experience with the 6 & 7 DJ8's vs the 6922 input tubes? Regards, DaveH

Thanks for the reply Lon, Respectfully commenting, I have zero tizziness in the treble that I hear with my GV's, both pots WOT.   Wondering if its possible that it could be originating up stream? Maybe my ears have a different frequency response tolerance than others and I know we are all different in our perception of the delivered product. My insecurity tells me that maybe the more efficient product is the one to pursue.  BTW, I would enjoy meeting you all  at next years Decfest as this year is full of complications for me. Thank you as I enjoy the dialog.  Dave H

Thanks Lon for the sincere reply.  I now will purchase a pair of 6DJ8's and will look forward towards the education. I have read many of your posts and trust your experienced ear. Always fun to look beyond.

I appreciate all the posts.  I went to a Ham Fest, a couple of weeks ago, here in Virginia Beach and found a guy selling tubes.  I finally touched base with him the other day and he is a bit of an audiophile.  He has power cables, tubes and various items that I will be able to try to see if I can get a different sonic signature. It is an excellent opportunity for me to tube roll without the expense of buying-and-trying.

I still feel that many of my flac recordings from the CD's I owned were just engineered poorly.  I know that DSD is around the corner as the new digital format, but it is still in its infancy and albums are approximately $25.

I do have a question, though.  When I try a quad of EL34's or similar tube, do they have to be matched within 10% or does the amp take over and adjust itself?

Lon, I believe you mentioned in a post you were from Ohio.  I am originally from Youngstown.  There is a gentleman that has a huge Harley dealership in Youngstown that happens to be an audiophile and sells some nice stuff.  Check out his website  http://soul-custom-motorcycles.myshopify.com/collections/music

I would get quads as matched as possible myself, though 10 percent may be just fine. I'm not an expert on this aspect by any means.

My mother's parents used to live in Youngstown. In Ohio I mostly lived in Burton, Ohio, in Geauga County, out in the country, where my Dad had the church on the town square for 27 years. He retired to Bay Village, west of Cleveland and that's where my parents are living now.

That's an interesting site, thanks for the link.

Awesome RJR! I'm listening to some jazz vinyl right now on my system and the Torri Mk III and the ZP3 and the CSP2+ are translating what comes off my Rega RP3 so wonderfully right now that there's not one digital thing I can put on in any format and play through the system that will top this sound. I can see why your fellow music lover was bowled over by your system's sound.

I had originally thought this weekend I would move the new Torii Mk III I received in July from the second system and put it down here in the main system, it has over 1500 hours on it now. But. . . I just don't want to move my seasoned Mk III out. This has been such an amazing amp and the Beeswax caps really influenced its sound favorably. The sound quality this system achieves really amazes me sometimes. I imagine a much younger self just reveling in the system he dreamed of having one day. We are so lucky to have this window into the sound thanks to Steve and Bob and all the Decware family.

Please keep us posted about how your system develops through tube-rolling.