Forums - Affordable, cost-effective RCA interconnects

will

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Re: Affordable, cost-effective RCA interconnects
Reply #50 - 02/03/12 at 01:23:55

Lon, Sounds like you are having fun. I think the sound stage differences will likely disappear with the MACs in more time. Burned in, mine showed no apparent difference. I get more difference with different rectifiers! And I think that thing we are trying to describe about the cable...more solid maybe, plays into the soundstage, increasing saturation slightly.

When I compared the MG944s without and with spikes (5/8 h x 1/2 wide) I got very similar effects as you did with your footer rigs, but I would say more pronounced..more than "a bit", but this could just be semantics.

My HR-ONEs came with some honker spikes (1 h x 3/4 w) and since my floor is brick, their mass shows up clearly, and in a way I visually prefer less than the subtler MG ones. So I tried the spikes from the 944s. They sounded fine, but interestingly, going from the smaller spikes back to the larger on the HR-ONEs, and listening carefully for differences, the the shift from the smaller to bigger ones yielded similar results to your footers, subtle, but audible.

Got me, but the bigger spikes Bob chose stay!

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Lon

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Re: Affordable, cost-effective RCA interconnects
Reply #51 - 02/03/12 at 01:38:56

I've tried a few spikes with my HR-1s and ERRs (not the ones from Bob because I don't think I received any) but they make the speakers too tall and I don't like where that places the tweeters, makes everything too bright for me in my room, at least the last time I tried them. So these footer assemblies work out better for me.

I guess the changes are more than "a little bit". . . I'm being cautious with my descriptions of my perceptions.

The engineer Barry Diament hypothesizes that the roller ball on the curved smooth surface moves and transfers the vibrations from the speaker. This is isolation, not coupling. It has a different effect than spikes, and I like it. My speakers are on carpet over suspended hardwood floor, from my experience a different scenario from brick or concrete.

Anyway, for about 20 bucks a nice experiment that's working out. I like the effect better than the Herbie's Audio Lab Little Fat Gliders I was using.

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Pale Rider Seasoned Member Posts: 1285	Re: Affordable, cost-effective RCA interconnects Reply #52 - 02/03/12 at 14:41:47 Lon, maybe I missed your description of the experiment elsewhere or earlier in this thread, but tell more. I know Barry from Soundkeeper Recordings and BDA. By the way, I highly recommend their recordings to folks. Very, very good stuff, especially the hi-res files versions.
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Lon

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Re: Affordable, cost-effective RCA interconnects
Reply #53 - 02/03/12 at 15:15:07

Right, Barry's studio is very well laid-out with attention to signal noise, isolation, power quality, etc. He pays attention to detail and he's not "hide-bound" by any rules other than what his ears seem to tell him.

I have read of Barry's "hip joint" isolation devices for years and my main problem with them is that he always anchors a smooth concave metal surface to a wood block base, and that combination raises the speaker height which for my seating position(s) and the tweeter height of my speakers doesn't work out well. So I got to thinking that with the sort of "compressability" of the surface of my carpet the steel concave piece will be well anchored by the weight of the speaker. Barry uses 1/2" to 1" steel ball bearings in his design, but I know how neutral in signature the acrylic balls that Steve Herbelin used to use in his IsoCups are, and I had eight of those handy, so I thought I could use those. So I bought a dozen automobile engine freeze plugs, they have a polished smooth concave surface, and just put those down on the carpet near the corners of the speaker and put the acrylic balls in the center, and placed the speaker on these. It takes some time and a bit of frustrating energy to find the best balancing position for the set-up, and to get both speakers toed-in (or not) and properly positioned, etc. so you want to sort of get it right quickly and not mess with it.

Barry's assertion is that the speaker's vibrational energy is absorbed by the ball moving even the tiniest amount within the concave smooth surface of the bottom piece. There is a very expensive highly machined bit of audio bling like these that you can purchase but this is a twenty dollar tweak, much more affordable. I think the reasoning is sound (sort of like the Aurios ball bearing footers or other bearing and cup footers, and the IsoCups, though within those the ball really can't move unless large force is applied). Barry thinks that isolation such as this is better than coupling speakers.

Anyway, I had interesting results with just the acrylic balls on the carpet when I first got the speakers but I decided that some sort of tonal linearity was lost and just had the speakers flat on the carpet. With this set up, adding the freeze plugs seems to allow the balls to move freely enough, and the change in sound seemed more linear. I'm not sure I have the speakers exactly where they are at their best with this set-up, and will probably play with location over time. But I like what I hear, and I would say the biggest changes are a sweetening of the treble and a bit more soundstage imaging detail (though I am not sure that is anything more than subtle). Fun to play with, I really enjoy isolation components and their effect on my system. A friend thinks that it is because of my pier-on-beam foundation old creaky house that these things seem to make a difference, but he hears it too and we both find less of a change using these in his concrete slab apartment. Anyway, this is something to keep the boredom away! In time maybe I'll think of or stumble upon a bottom piece that works better in this set-up, or try smaller steel bearings. . . I think the steepness of the curve of the freeze plugs may be limiting the movement of the balls (?)

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Pale Rider

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Re: Affordable, cost-effective RCA interconnects
Reply #54 - 02/03/12 at 19:17:36

Interesting. I also have some spare "lamp black balls" that I bought from Herbie's, that I could use in such an experiment. In looking around, I have found a snootful of freeze plugs, of all sorts, sizes, and material (a sampling here). Did you find a size that worked well?

I have ERRs on both carpet and hardwood, so it could be interesting to try this experiment.

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Lon

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Re: Affordable, cost-effective RCA interconnects
Reply #55 - 02/03/12 at 19:37:53

I bought mine from amazon, I got a 1 and 5/8" diameter package of ten. Bigger might be better, but then the "bowl" would be deeper and I think shallower is better than deeper.

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B001B4JW0I/ref=oh_o05_s00_i00_details

Often concave drawer pulls are used in these hip-joints, and those are longer and shallower. They may be best if I can use them without bases and keep the profile low that would be worth checking out.

I bet that the lampblack balls will work well. I was going to try those but only have six not in use with other components, and I quickly determined three under a speaker is even more difficult to set up than four! And now Herbie's Audio Lab is using yet another form of ball. There's llots of room for experimentation as far as that goes. I did use split brass ones (two halves with a foam insert in the center and both halves resting on a synthetic gemstone) from Herbie's that I bought years ago and let's just say they don't work well in this application. Which is a shame as they were very expensive, and they don't work well for me under components either!

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Lon

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Re: Affordable, cost-effective RCA interconnects
Reply #56 - 02/15/12 at 23:20:10

Received my Reality Cables ICs today. Very well made attractive cables. I have them going from my XLR outputs of my PS Audio PerfectWave DAC into one input of my Torii. In the other input I have my pair of MAC Ultrasilver ICs. I can toggle back and forth between the two inputs and compare the same material from the DAC on the different cables.

Just a few hours in I have to say the Reality Cables are very nice. Interesting differences between them. The Reality fill the sound stage and seem "bigger." They also seem warmer. But switching back to the MAC neither is really that simply true. The MAC are a bit crisper (perhaps a bit more traditional "detail") and though both are equally dynamic there's occasionally a more "marked" contrast in dynamics with the MAC, as if a sound were exploding out of a darker silence. The MACs also seem to have a bit more depth, while the Reality a bit more width. Both are excellent choices and source material may be the ultimate arbiter on which I prefer on any given moment. (And being able to flick a toggle switch between the two sets of cables is cool). Still, the Reality ICs are just out of the shipping box. I expect a little change, though they've been very well "cooked" before getting here.

I was curious because will was so fond of these cables and I have to thank him again for mentioning them, I think I'm going to really enjoy the sound.

In a way I have a sense that the sound difference is similar to the DAC's output straight into the amp compared to the DAC's output into my CSP2 and from there to the amp. Not a profound difference, and I've been happy either way. The MAC seems more like the DAC without the CSP2 in the loop. And it's interesting to have copper ICs back in the system as I'd been using silver for years, and taking copper ones on hand out pretty quickly when comparing. The Reality are not coming out quickly though. Time will tell, but I really doubt that the Reality cables will be sent back. Wink

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Lon

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Re: Affordable, cost-effective RCA interconnects
Reply #57 - 02/22/12 at 15:21:54

It's been almost a week now that the current has been flowing through these cables nearly non-stop, at least 100 hours. About 36 hours ago the sound went through a very pleasant glowing change and then stabilized again. Very natural sound. Very quick sound. Slightly big sound.

I have to say I like these very much and they're a good match for the PWD's openness and the Torii's muscle and depth. In some ways I can clearly hear the "copper signature" in the way that I heard the "silver signature" in the Decware and MAC cables. I also seem to hear a character that I would say is related to the cryo'd tubes that I have used/am using, a quickness and a richness (which don't often come in combination in audio).

Anyway, I'm very happy with these cables and can safely recommend them to Decware system owners.

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Fireblade

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Re: Affordable, cost-effective RCA interconnects
Reply #58 - 02/22/12 at 17:27:44

Lon, are you referring to the Reality IC cables? If so, how do they really compare in your setup with the Decware IC's? Have you A-Bd them as you did with the MACs?

I'm still on the hunt for a good, cost-effective pair of IC cables. So far I see both MAC and Reality are acceptable choices given your valid assessments. What about the Decware ICs?

Would you rank them, even if the differences may be just dependent on your particular setup, or maybe related to the XLR (i.e., balanced) vs RCA outputs from your dAC?

Thanks!

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Lon

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Re: Affordable, cost-effective RCA interconnects
Reply #59 - 02/22/12 at 17:44:47

I have compared them to the Decware, a few days ago I put those in place of the MAC in my system.

I'd rate the MAC and Decware as really very very close, there is a tiny tonal difference which would lend themselves to being favored over one or the other by listener preferences on how they like to hear a tonal balance. I do prefer the Reality Cables to both, that's just my personal preference: they're a bit more neutral sounding (I feel in comparison the other two cables have a bit more energy in the upper mid and treble). It's not a huge difference, and I am using these in an XLR to RCA configuration, and the difference may be the same in an RCA to RCA or not. I don't know that at the moment. I might buy an RCA to RCA cable in time. I need to make money though. I may be working at the Harley dealer I frequent next month though, I've had two successful interviews and should hear on Monday. I can then afford more audio goodies, and also sock some money into the bank for my high property taxes and travel to my family.

Bottom line: all three are very good cables for the money. I think right now I prefer the Reality Cables a bit.

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Fireblade

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Re: Affordable, cost-effective RCA interconnects
Reply #60 - 02/22/12 at 18:06:28

Got it, Lon, thanks for sharing that insight/valid information with us. I'm about to order one of those three (checking my bank account at the moment, though!)

It should be interesting to work for the dealer of your ride! I wish you luck in those endeavors. I just came back from a nice ride on some backroads, nothing extreme. Boy, I think while I'm healthy I will be riding my bike, so much so, as while I'm not deaf I will be playing my new audio setup.

Let's hope for the best ...

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will

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Re: Affordable, cost-effective RCA interconnects
Reply #61 - 02/22/12 at 21:03:06

Fireblade, if you read above I made my assessments of all three cables and agree with Lon that the Reality is the best for me, but it does take some getting used to in AB comparisons since the copper has an apparently bigger, "warmer" character that can sound a bit thick at first, but after getting over that first impression, they are big, fast and real. And even though they are "cooked" they take 50-100 hours to fully come out.

I agree the Decware and MACs are very similar, but in subtle views, I definitely prefer the MAC UltraSilvers in my system over Decware, the Decware exhibiting a slight fragility as opposed to more solidity and a very slightly warmer sound from the MACs. The cool thing about them is you can find them dirt cheap on audiogon auctions. I think mine were 60 or so delivered. The Decware ICs are very good though!

In fact, I have a 3' pair fully broken in I would sell if you want. Say 110 delivered?

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Fireblade

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Re: Affordable, cost-effective RCA interconnects
Reply #62 - 02/23/12 at 15:08:59

Will, first of all I hope you continue on your successful healing process from that 'hernia repair.'

Regarding your views on the Reality and Mac IC's, I had read your comments a while back, but was interested also in Lon's views. After all, this is quite a subjective evaluation.

Although I'm ready to get me one of the three choices, eventually, right now I'm not able to spend any more on audio gadgets, for a while. I had to replace both tires on my bike and changed oil and filter also, so my play money has been spent for now (including recent ordering of the Ext HDD, USB Cables and USB Hub, along with some CD's.)

I also don't need a 3.28 foot length (1 meter), having my MS II + and laptop side by side to the amplifier (current and future), eliminating this way the extra length-derived capacitance involved. Besides, you both got me thinking about MAC Ultra Silvers again. In any case, I thank you for the offer and may get back to you if I change my mind. Cheers!

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will Seasoned Member Posts: 3087	Re: Affordable, cost-effective RCA interconnects Reply #63 - 02/23/12 at 16:44:29 I get the subjective thing for sure, but Lon and my responses were pretty damned close. I have a half meter pair too if you get interested.
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Fireblade

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Re: Affordable, cost-effective RCA interconnects
Reply #64 - 02/23/12 at 17:04:01

Wow, how many pairs of cables have you tried/kept?

Very well, if you can hold on to them for a couple of weeks or so, I may be able to buy them from you given an agreed, reasonable price. New ones are $129.00 plus shipping.

It is remarkable that both of you concurred, indeed. Now, if the real difference is not that big among all three of them, and considering my setup being quite different from yours, I would probably be ok with the Decware IC's after all.

I only have one type of IC's here (two exactly equal pairs), so I definitely need another good alternative to see how good or bad the ones I have are. Otherwise, I would be possibly missing on the best sound of the Decware gear.

I'm still months away from receiving my Decware gear and have it broken-in, so I'm in no rush, though.

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will

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Re: Affordable, cost-effective RCA interconnects
Reply #65 - 02/23/12 at 17:15:09

I will hold onto them for you and if you want them, we will get to a good price and if not, that's cool. Just remind me if you end up wanting them.

I think you will find them very nice cables. I used them exclusively for quite a long time and loved what they brought to the sound. They are after all much better than their cost when comparing to most cables available.

As with all Decware stuff, you pay for it, but you get a remarkable deal for what you get!

Sorry for your long wait for your gear, and I look forward to your responses as you adapt them to your home and life!

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Lon

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Re: Affordable, cost-effective RCA interconnects
Reply #66 - 02/23/12 at 17:39:27

I concur with will that the Decware cables are great cables and feel they are an amazing value. I had them in my main system for years and it really wasn't until I improved my sources considerably that I was even tempted to try others. And the way that wire and components work in synergy it doesn't surprise me for example that I actually think I prefer the Decware cables between my DEC 685 DVD changer and my CSP2 in my second system to the MAC Ultrasilver + in the same spot. For the price (especially the great price I know you'll receive from will) they're an exceptional value. They made me put away and forget interconnects I had bought before the Decware were offered from TARA Labs and PS Audio that listed for three times the price. I still have them, they're nice cables (and I think they're better for solid state than tube components) and I have a history with them and don't want to part with them, but the Decware are clearly superior any time I make a comparison with the Decware components.

There are many cable options, but in my experience you can trust the Decware interconnects, speaker wire and power cords to work very well with your Decware components.

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Fireblade

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Re: Affordable, cost-effective RCA interconnects
Reply #67 - 02/23/12 at 20:38:51

Ok will, let's do it. You guys are the experts and, as always, I trust your assessments. What you're saying also makes sense, so, will, I'm willing to hear your offer. As I said, I'll probably be able to pull this through within a couple of weeks.

(Lon, thanks for putting a good word for me there! Wink

)

BTW, I'm about to enter my 5th week on the Mini Torii/DM945's order pipeline, with another 7 more to go before shipment. Then, there's the 5 weeks or so of surface shipment (by sea) and customs clearance ... :- (

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will

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Re: Affordable, cost-effective RCA interconnects
Reply #68 - 02/24/12 at 00:45:23

Fireblade, where are you? For some reason I thought you were in the States now. Sorry, I may have to change my free shipping offer! My bad.

Would 85 for the cables be comfortable for you, and we'll talk about shipping? As far as I can tell they are in brand new condition but with the benefit of being at least partially burned in. I used them as an IC between my ZDAC and ZSTAGE for a while, but it has been so long ago, I can't remember how long, so can't say how many hours are on them.

Wow, I feel bad it is so long until you get to really hear your stuff, but it sounds like you are having a lot of fun getting there!

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brownazucar Verified Member Posts: 6	Re: Affordable, cost-effective RCA interconnects Reply #69 - 02/24/12 at 06:06:19 Will, If, per chance, Fireblade passes on the interconnects I am interested and would be pleased to take these off your hands. Cheers, brownazucar
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Fireblade

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Re: Affordable, cost-effective RCA interconnects
Reply #70 - 02/24/12 at 10:38:38

I agree with the price, Will. You can ship them to my importer's US warehouse in Florida, and we'll take it from there. I would appreciate it if you'd hold on to them for a little while (2 weeks), but we have a sure deal. I'll let you know when, so we can arrange the details. Thanks for the offer!

(Sorry brownazucar!)

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will Seasoned Member Posts: 3087	Re: Affordable, cost-effective RCA interconnects Reply #71 - 02/24/12 at 16:15:40 Yes sorry brownazucar. Fireblade, I can ship whenever is best for you. No hurry. If you PM the FL zip, I can figure out Priority Mail costs. Shouldn't be much.
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Fireblade Seasoned Member Knowledge comes, but wisdom lingers. A.L.Tennyson Posts: 1046	Re: Affordable, cost-effective RCA interconnects Reply #72 - 02/24/12 at 18:08:42 Done! Please check your PM's. Thanks!
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will Seasoned Member Posts: 3087	Re: Affordable, cost-effective RCA interconnects Reply #73 - 02/24/12 at 19:07:01 Got it, and don't worry, they will be well protected. I made and shipped pottery for 35 years! Just let me know when you want them sent. Almost everything I buy now from tube and cable guys is sent Priority mail these days, so I will pack the cables and get a price.
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Fireblade Seasoned Member Knowledge comes, but wisdom lingers. A.L.Tennyson Posts: 1046	Re: Affordable, cost-effective RCA interconnects Reply #74 - 02/24/12 at 19:16:45 Great! I was under the impression you were offering the free shipping within the States, is that still on? Just checking ...
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will

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Posts: 3087

Re: Affordable, cost-effective RCA interconnects
Reply #75 - 02/24/12 at 19:43:40

Fireblade, please see your PMs.

And sorry if I was not clear.

Sad

When I found out you were out of country, I priced the cables without shipping. Still I think it is a fair price as they are even better than brand new since they are partly broken in, and I paid shipping on top of the 129 when I bought them from Decware. Sorry if this "Would 85 for the cables be comfortable for you, and we'll talk about shipping?" was not clear from my earlier post.

But if I blew the English, as I definitely do at times, you are not obligated in the least to buy the cables.

Again, sorry for any confusion!

Will

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Fireblade

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Re: Affordable, cost-effective RCA interconnects
Reply #76 - 02/24/12 at 21:18:58

I apologize for the confusion, Will. I did not know you were assuming a foreign shipment and did not consider those costs in your pricing. That's fine. Thanks for clarifying the confusion. The deal is still on, just let me know the shipping cost (Stateside) and I'll add it to the cable price.

Please check your PM's for some details. Take care ...

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Lon Seasoned Member "Love without guts is worthless!" Philip K. Dick Posts: 25750	Re: Affordable, cost-effective RCA interconnects Reply #77 - 02/25/12 at 17:05:45 For those interested there are new auctions for MAC interconnects: Velvet and UltraSilver + (and an HC power cord). http://www.proaux.com/
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Lon

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Re: Affordable, cost-effective RCA interconnects
Reply #78 - 04/18/12 at 23:36:14

Proaux auctions seemed to be out of commission for most of March, but they're back in action, and My Audio Cables is auctioning off two types of interconnects and the HC power cord. I have both the Ultra Silver Plus and the HC power cord, got them at these bargain prices and they're very well worth this kind of money. Very happy with them in my second system.

http://www.proaux.com/categories.php?parent_id=0

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Lon Seasoned Member "Love without guts is worthless!" Philip K. Dick Posts: 25750	Re: Affordable, cost-effective RCA interconnects Reply #79 - 05/18/12 at 13:29:17 I see this on the www.myaudiocables.com main page: - SPECIAL SALES - Email for info - myaudiocables@mac.com 3’ UltraSilver+ IC $59. 3’ Silver QUAD IC $79. 3’ HC PC $49. Burly PC $249. I would be tempted to try the Burly PC, but I've got great cords on all components now, and cords in the closet!
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Lon

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Re: Affordable, cost-effective RCA interconnects
Reply #80 - 05/18/12 at 20:35:06

Currently the "HC" power cord I bought a month or so back is on my Warwick bass guitar combo amp. I was surprised at what that has resulted in, just an overall better sound from the combo amp.

It sounded great on my Torii Mk II, but I was able to put a PS Audio PerfectWave AC-10 on that which was an improvement.

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Hipfan Senior Member Posts: 65	Re: Affordable, cost-effective RCA interconnects Reply #81 - 05/20/12 at 03:33:42 Thanks for the heads up Lon. I just ordered a set of UltraSilver ICs and CuQ speaker wire from Steve. They should be well broken-in by the time my Decware gear arrives.
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Lon Seasoned Member "Love without guts is worthless!" Philip K. Dick Posts: 25750	Re: Affordable, cost-effective RCA interconnects Reply #82 - 05/20/12 at 03:39:59 You're welcome. Was too good news to keep under wraps. Good plan: get them broken in before the Decware goods arrive!
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Pale Rider

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Posts: 1285

Re: Affordable, cost-effective RCA interconnects
Reply #83 - 05/20/12 at 14:41:53

These are true bargains. I have several MAC ICs, and a couple of HC power cords. While I prefer my Decware and PS Audio cords to the MAC cords, I find I like the MAC better than the Shunyata I have tried. On the IC side, as I said, these are real bargains. I had a combo of Decware and AudioQuest silver interconnects (from HCM Audio in lengths not offered by Decware, and very reasonably priced), but I have happily replaced them with MAC cables.

Regrets for being absent for so long. 2012 has been an, um, interesting year.

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will Seasoned Member Posts: 3087	Re: Affordable, cost-effective RCA interconnects Reply #84 - 05/20/12 at 15:38:16 Glad to hear from you Greg! Hoping the rest is pleasantly serene!
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Pale Rider Seasoned Member Posts: 1285	Re: Affordable, cost-effective RCA interconnects Reply #85 - 05/20/12 at 17:16:28 Thanks Will. You and me both.
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Fireblade Seasoned Member Knowledge comes, but wisdom lingers. A.L.Tennyson Posts: 1046	Re: Affordable, cost-effective RCA interconnects Reply #86 - 05/20/12 at 20:47:39 That's the Man, right there. Welcome back, Pale Rider, you were missed!
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Pale Rider Seasoned Member Posts: 1285	Re: Affordable, cost-effective RCA interconnects Reply #87 - 05/21/12 at 12:25:15 Thanks Fireblade; much appreciated. Good to be back.
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Lon

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Re: Affordable, cost-effective RCA interconnects
Reply #88 - 05/23/12 at 18:20:51

Please don't stay away from us so long!

I agree with your hierarchy on the power cords, my main system and bedroom system are all PS Audio cords of various types right now, with my main including all cords with "PCOCC" copper, which just floor me in how they sound.

I've one of my Decware cords in use on the TV in the bedroom. I'm amazed at the differences power cords make on monitors.

I put my MAC HC power cord on my Warwick bass guitar amp and it really shines there. . . wow, it makes everything just tighter and yet fuller. An unexpected surprise.

Due to its current special price, I decided to try a MAC Burly cord. Going to try it on the Torii, and probably see how it does between the wall and my PS Audio Power Plant Premier. I think it's likely a great cord, and if it works out in one of those spots, I'll bring my CSP2 back into the sytstem, because although I am divided as to whether the CSP2 in the chain is best for the PerfectWave duo, it does add some special magic to the SACD sound. I also was talked into trying the new Silver Quad ICs by Steve Hallick. If they're better than the UltraSilver they'll be great for the DEC 685 in my second system. And then I can use the Ultrasilver + with the Marantz Blu-ray in that system.

I've got too many ICs and PCs. Not a bad problem to have.

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Lon

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Re: Affordable, cost-effective RCA interconnects
Reply #89 - 06/15/12 at 00:10:19

My MAC Burly power cord and Silver Quad+ interconnects are due to ship tomorrow. Which is good because with the new vinyl wing of my system, some more cabling is welcome. And I love to experiment with cabling.

By the way, I asked Steve Halick what the "+" designation means in his cable naming, and this was his reply:

It's a more deluxe cable. Usually upgraded connectors and significantly finer wire.

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Lon

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Posts: 25750

Re: Affordable, cost-effective RCA interconnects
Reply #90 - 06/21/12 at 14:53:56

Well, my shipment from MAC is due today. Tuesday I got a used MAC Burly power cord I purchased from Audiogon at a great price, broken in. . . stuck it on my Torii as it seems to be designed as an amplifier cord primarily. Stuck with it for 24 hours but it wasn't right for the Torii in the main system. Compared to the PS Audio PerfectWave AC-12 in place there, it was dark and dull. . . a very nice cord and I'd probably love it had I not heard the AC-12. The AC-12 has a magic I've just not heard in any other cord, even the AC-10. I've found enough used at decent prices (for them, about 40 to 45 percent list cost) to equip the Power Plant Premier, Torii, PS Audio Transport and DAC, my homemade preamp (which will soon be changed out for the CSP2 and then the CSP2+) and my Denon DCD-100--eventually I'll get more for my main system; I'm using PS Audio xStream Premier SC and PerfectWave AC-10s in the rest of the system now. Great cords. . . but the AC-12 just has a bit more excellence in them. The copper in these is available from only one machine in Japan. . . all I can think is that the hype about this special crystal copper must have some validity as that's the major difference between it and its predecessors from PS Audio which were great but not quite this good. Maybe that's just BS, but something about the cable is exceptional.

I know I've maybe gone mad and become one of those people Steve makes fun of with thick garden-hose power cords when in his opinion the Decware cord is good enough, but I've slowly built up to these over time and lots of listening and once I've discovered what they bring to the system I just enjoy having them. And the AC-12, unlike the MAC power cords and the Decware, sound great on all components I've tried; the MAC and Decware are more "particular." Some work better than others on a given component. I also use a MAC HC power cord on a Warwick bass guitar amp I have and a Decware cord on a Black Heart guitar amp I have as well. I was surprised at the difference these made there.

It's a slippery slope and I wouldn't suggest going this far into this unless you have a lot of money to burn (not many of us here do I know) and also have gotten the best source components you can. Once you accomplish that, the AC-12 is the icing on the cake. Should offer a lifetime of use with components as well.

So the Burly is now on the DEC685 in my second system and upped the ante there. The new one that is coming today will go on the Torii in the second system, and I'll shift around a few power cords back there. And I'll end up with two Decware cords for the closet and possibly for sale.

I'm looking forward to the Silver Quad + interconnects arriving today as well. . . The Ultra Silver + I purchased before have blossomed into a very good interconnect, currently in use between my PS Audio GCPH and my preamp. Steve Hallick says the Silver Quad + are even better, and at the special price now available worth trying out. I expect a long break in though; I'm going to place them in the second system as connections between my DEC685 and the PS Audio GCPH (earlier version) there and the Torii. The second system is going to be in a bit of a break in flux for s spell, but it seems to always be in a state of improvement. So glad the DEC685 is back in use, it really is a great source for cd and SACD in the second system.

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Lon

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Posts: 25750

Re: Affordable, cost-effective RCA interconnects
Reply #91 - 06/22/12 at 13:41:25

The continuing saga of Rocky Raccoon and his audio cables.

I got the Silver Quad + interconnects and new Burly power cord in yesterday. I hooked a pair of Silver Quad + between my phono preamp and preamp yesterday (replacing my pair of Ultra Silver +) and there was a very nice retrieval of ambiance and detail immediately but the tonal balance was too bright, as I expected from these brand new silver interconnects.

So I set them up between the DEC685 and the Torii Mk II in the bedroom system, and installed the new Burly in between the Duet and the Torii Mk II. Of course this sounded great, as this second system always does. The speakers are too close to the wall and to the listener to be good for really accurate critical listening, but for pure euphonic fun and dreamy wistful listening that system can't be beat. I'd like to put all the components as is into the main system room sometime just to hear how it is when optimally placed, but that's so much work I doubt it will get done! Anyway, my plan is to burn the Silver Quad + in for a week or so in the bedroom system and then move them out to the main system for another listen. They have great potential. In construction they remind me very much of the first "red" Decware interconnects, but with a tighter "braid" and thinner wire. Should sound very good when broken in, and at 99 dollars I think they'll be a bargain.

Now I sit here waiting for my repaired CSP2 to arrive via UPS! And looking forward to a rare public show of a duo composed of two of my friends tonight at an outdoor event, WD-41 at Kenny Dorham's Backyard.

http://www.facebook.com/pages/Willie-Oteri-and-WD-41/150104544498

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Lon

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Posts: 25750

Re: Affordable, cost-effective RCA interconnects
Reply #92 - 06/22/12 at 19:20:41

My CSP2 is back in the system, and sounding great. There was nothing wrong with it. I must have been using the wrong value for replacement fuse. I feel a little silly but there's nothing wrong with having the doctor do a check up! Didn't cost me a cent either. Steve does so much for us, it's really one of the biggest benefits of being a Decware owner!

Replaced the stopgap preamp I was using which is very nice, has great parts and a great build, just different than the CSP2. A bit more forward and detailed, while the CSP2 can be that way too, but also can be adjusted to be a bit more warm and dynamic as well. So more versatile and a bit more my style. Looking forward to the CSP2+ which I've wanted ever since it was introduced. . .

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sberger

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Posts: 179

Re: Affordable, cost-effective RCA interconnects
Reply #93 - 06/23/12 at 06:37:06

Congrats on the CSP2 being back in the system Lon. Glad to hear that nothing was wrong with it after all. This hobby of ours will certainly humble even the most grizzled veterans of it's wars, won't it. Just another way of letting us know to go slow and check on even the most obvious things. Looking forward to hearing what I did to screw up my Torii.

Question about the Burly. I'd like to try a different pc with the Torii. I've been using a Decware cord but with my configuration it was difficult for the female end to plug into the Torii and stay in. I'm hoping that didn't cause the failure that occurred but who knows? Anyway I'm now using Decware pc with my new Power Plant Premier. Everything sounds great so I'd rather leave it there and try something different with the Torii once it's back in the system. So in addition to your continuing thoughts on how it sounds I'd like to know how it fits into your Torii. Is it fairly flexible?

Thanks.

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Lon

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Posts: 25750

Re: Affordable, cost-effective RCA interconnects
Reply #94 - 06/23/12 at 10:08:52

Sam, the Burly is only flexible at the two ends, the center portion is not very flexible. It can work, but it works best in a relative straight line.

Also, it has the same connector as the Decware cable for going in to the amp.

It will handle the Torii well and create good sound, but . . . the connector may cause you trouble if the Decware cord connector did.

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sberger Seasoned Member Posts: 179	Re: Affordable, cost-effective RCA interconnects Reply #95 - 06/23/12 at 10:56:57 Ah ok then. Won't risk it. Thanks. The Torii sits on the top shelf of a 6 foot rack and the pc is coming straight up and then the end has to twist down. Wonder what cords would work better? Any thoughts welcome.
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Lon

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Re: Affordable, cost-effective RCA interconnects
Reply #96 - 06/23/12 at 11:11:42

The Burly may work then as it's six foot, and the first and last foot are very flexible. . . .But the connector is the same and may give you trouble. You could contact Steve Hallick of My Audio Cables; he has lots of upgraded connectors to choose from and would know which would work best.

As far as other cables, I would have to say in your situation you would have to have a 2 meter or so length of those I'd recommend as their flexibility isn't the best. I'd be on the lookout for a used PS Audio xStream Plus SC. The SC indicates that it has 'single crystal copper' which is in fact a real draw for this cable. (There was an earlier xStream Plus, without the SC, which is not as great a cable). I think this cable is very good for its used price, usually 200 or a bit less when available. One caveat: the ones from Hong Kong are more likely to be fakes than the real deal. At the moment I only see those from Hong Kong for sale. . . . This cable is stiff but flexible enough. Going up the scale from there, the xStream Statement SC and Premier SC are good choices, and the PerfectWave AC-10 and AC-12 are great choices. These are all not too flexible and may not work as well with your rack would need the 2 meter lengths, which may actually sound better, but are certainly a bigger expense. . . .

I've fallen in love with the "SC" and PerfectWave cables and what they do and really have no others to recommend. Others here probably have other experiences and recommendations.

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sberger

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Posts: 179

Re: Affordable, cost-effective RCA interconnects
Reply #97 - 06/23/12 at 11:21:46

Thanks Lon. I did contact Steve Hallick so we'll see what he says. For whatever reason I haven't had the same luck in the past with PSA cords as you. Mind you they were different varieties and it was few years back but think I would prefer something different. I've heard good things about the Burly in addition to your comments and his web site special would seem like a great opportunity to try it out. So hopefully I'll be able to.

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Lon

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Re: Affordable, cost-effective RCA interconnects
Reply #98 - 06/23/12 at 12:07:14

Cool. Again, in my opinion it's the "SC" cables (that use what PS Audio calls "PCOCC" copper) that I have had so much success with, really changed their cable line. (Earlier cables had a thicker, bassier sound with a nice midrange and treble; the SC line is much more neutral and open throughout all frequencies, and very dynamic). And I've found that power cable use in general has been different with the Power Plant Premier rather than without it, the PCOCC cables just sing with the Premier. The Burly is significantly different, without the "life" the others have. Very much like the Decware in my system. My main system has cables all containing PCOCC in it now, and as soon as I put a different cable in I hear the difference, and can't be comfortable with it.

Here's the hype from PS Audio about PCOCC (and yes, it's hype, but my ears tell me there's something at play here, just as Steve's hype has grounding!):

PCOCC is one of the more remarkable manmade metals in the world. It is formed as one single long grain or crystal that runs the entire length of the conductor. It is formed by a process known as The Ohno Continuous Casting Method where molten copper is forced out of the mold and very slowly draws the grain down the conductor's length, creating a 'single grain structure.'

There’s only one machine in the world that creates PCOCC single crystal copper, and that is one of the reasons it is nearly ten times more expensive than OFC. PS Audio has secured a scheduled allotment of the material.

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HR-1,ZBIT,ZROCK3,SEWE300B,CSP3-25mod; Rega RP3 all GrooveTracer mods;PSAudio:PST+DSD, DAC Mk II, P15,NPC,PowerBases,AC-12 pwr cbls, Reference spkrcbls; Mapleshade SamsonV3; VooDoo:Cremona+Amati interconnects;Stack EQ; headphones: Sennheiser HD800S,ZMF Ori,Oppo PM1

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will

Seasoned Member

Posts: 3087

Re: Affordable, cost-effective RCA interconnects
Reply #99 - 06/23/12 at 12:21:26

Sberger,

Have you heard of Pi Audio? I would call or email Dave Elledge from http://www.piaudiogroup.com/ and see what he can do for you. The website is not developed, with much more info on the audiocircle forum, but don't be dissuaded due to this. It is a small operation making really good stuff.

I have used DIY cables with good connectors from VHaudio and Cryoparts, made up ones from Alan Maher, and myaudiocable HC, so not a great reference, but some decent cables.

Then I got a sample of Pi Audio Cable's cheaper cable made for the Tranquility DAC, and it really did sound better than the rest in that application. More fleshed out in every way. Then I tried PI's better cable on the Tranquiltiy, and it was better than the first. More inner detail, delicacy, body, and range.

It is clear from interacting with Dave at PI that he is a consummate explorer for the most transparent, yet complete sound, and very knowledgable. But also what made me think of him, is his cables are flexible. He can custom build cables to your needs to boot though I don't know how he might deal with the trial period on this.

Edit: Oops, forgot to say the cables sound great pre-power and in the Torii also. Could be worth a trial period exploration.

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