I had heard once that it is better to leave a computer on for four hours than turn it off and then back on as it is less wearing to leave it on that amount of time than cycle it through the on and offs - is there something similar for tube amps? An amount of time better to leave it idel instead of turning it off and then on again, besides in Iowa it helps warm the home in the winter.

Rollin

Here is what I do....In the evening I would turn the amp on a half hour before I was going to listen, leave in on until I was going to bed. That would be the normal, Monday through Friday.

On weekends, if I was going to listen in the morning I would turn it on and listen, and if I knew it was not going to be until late that evening, that I would listen again, I would turn it off. If I might listen sporadicly throughout the day, I would leave it on.

With that said, I had Steve's ZLSA line stage which I didn't turn off for almost three years!

With the Torii-I it heats up much faster than any of Steve's other amps, it doesn't take hours for it to sound its best, but I would still and try to today, not turn it on and off several times during the day.  

ZYGI

I am truly confused now. As to the DECWARE gear, I read that you can leave it on all the time - it doesn't care.

i hope it isn't considered a "tweak", steve, but cryo treating most metals enables  them to do their jobs better and longer.  the data suggest that cryo treated tools, in the case of saw blades, guns and hand tools, among others, provides a longer, more effective service life.  in the case of vacuum tubes, to my ear, the sound is better.  as a result tubes are cheaper and expense is less of an issue.  there are oodles of us out here that believe this to be the case and would deny this process to be a "tweak"  don pettit, long beach, washington

right frank,  so why are some major manufacturers and users of cryo treated implements using the process seeing increased service life and effectiveness of a wide range of metal tools, etc.  regardless of what a book written in 1963 states?  the process is not a "dip".  it is a computer controlled process that consists of a slow ramp down, 24 hour holding at a precise temperature dictated by the metal and the result desired, and a slow ramp up to room temperature.  computers that could do this were to come into being a long time later and then the process had to be refined.  the book about tubes could be likened to newton's observations about physics, don't you think?  much more is known now than when isaac tossed the apple upward.  for a little more info on this see website cryo plus.com.  these companies would not be paying these fees if they were not seeing results and then consult my ears.  there is just plain ,more there, musicwise. don

Nice, Don, maybe you should read what I actually wrote, instead of commenting on what I didn't?

*) There is no doubt cryo treatment - along with other temperature treatments of many metals and alloys - can change their mechanical properties, and thus for instance increase wear resistance, bulk resistivity and other physical properties. This is a well established technique by now.

*) However there is no mechanical wear on a tube in service, unless you hit it with a hammer. A tube wears out due to - among other things - chemical exhaustion of the cathode, contamination of the cathode due to migration of impurities from the cathode sleeve (usually made from a very pure nickle alloy to try and prevent this from happening), and slow outgassing from the metals and the glass making up the tube. Sometimes you have slow leaks at the seals as well. It is not clear to me how improving the mechanical qualities of the bulk metal making up the tube structure can prevent these processes from happening, or slow them.

*) Tubes have been space rated since the late fifties. I would be extremely surprised if part of that certification of different tube types didn't incorporate some form of extended storage at cryogenic temperatures a bit above the absolute zero. The intention being to see what would happen when a satellite transmitter is powered up again after a prolonged break from service. Age tests would be the logical extension to see how the abuse might have influenced the useful service life of space rated tubes. I have never heard of any such effect being observed. Please give any references if you know of any such studies which did see it, involving the usual 5 to 10 thousand tubes.

*) What you describe as a cryo treatment is really a 'dip' by modern standards, considering the testing modern, high power tube equipment is subject to as a matter of course when being man/life rated. The (N)MRI scanner at your local hospital is likely to still contain quite a few serious power triodes, probably made by these guys. Being able to, say, double the time between scheduled tube replacements in those settings would be a big deal if something as simple as cryo treatment works. You could really make a killing in that industry with an effect like this.

*) I would be highly surprised if an effect like you describe, an unknown mechanism extending the lifetime of low power vacuum devices via cryo treatment, exists, and at the same time hadn't accidentally been discovered by half the physics departments of every reasonable university in the world. Those places use liquid Nitrogen by the truckload, literally, and not (only...) to cool their beer.

*) I didn't say anything about how such a treatment might influence the sound of a tube. But since you did, please allow me to comment. Did it occur to you that we are actually not listening to the metal of the tube, but to the structure of the vacuum in between it?

*) It is for you to decide whether you waste your money on any service you buy, not something I can nor will comment on. Please leave the ad hominem attacks at the door if you wish for us to continue this conversation.

Frank.

May I add my 2 cents on cryo.
A little background on me first. I am a Sr. Manufacturing Engineer specializing in cutting tools for a very large manfactuer of big YELLOW equipment.
I have personally conducted extensve tests on cryo treatment on cutting tools and IT DON'T WORK. Snake oil folks.
Freezing your tubes? I can't imagine it matters a bit.
But the main thing to remember is I don't know shit about how music comes out of the boxes setting on my floor. Any technology I don't understand must be magic.