The ZSTAGE is a powerful tool. It's been a mixed bag for me not because it is bad, but because it messed with my mind. Having a Torii MkIII I have many ways to subtly or profoundly influence my system sound. Two regulator tube sets, rectifiers, input and power tubes along with treble cut, bias and impedance switches…. not to mention cables! And with the ZDAC-1/Mac playing uncompressed, error corrected data, I had a very articulate and musical sound.

The ZSTAGE with its single tube and particular electronics coming before the amp really makes a mark on the system sound. And each tube I try, I find it amazing how much that one tube can do. So it is double edged. If a particular tube fits your tastes, it is great and if it is not quite compatible it has a big effect on everything down stream.

But the light at the end of the tunnel??? I have tried a Tungsol 12BH7 with oval black plates, an RCA 12AU7 cleartop, an RCA 12AT7 grey plate, a triple mice Sylvania (National) 5751 and the stock Tungsol 5963. All had more differences with more clear favorites popping up pre burn in. Post burn in, all are really very good, just different, indicating how good the ZSTAGE is once it gets around to presenting its sound.



As usual I was impatient, and as usual, the ZSTAGE took a good three to four weeks to start really showing itself and more like five to really shine. Interestingly, throughout most of the burn in the stock Tungsol 5963 tube was my least favorite with a warmth that had sweet, open mids and highs, but a bit of unarticulated flab in the bass. Now it is a favorite, the bass sounding very good. So I suggest to be patient and save some money on tubes, the ZSTAGE's simplicity does not speed up the burn in. Also, as usual, the power cord and interconnects used have a strong effect. Mine jumped several notches with a now obsolete Alan Maher GEN II power cord I got from his "closet."

Interconnect wise I have played between the short cables Steve made for the unit (I believe using the same copper in the unit....the idea being no cable so to speak). Also, I am using some MAC twisted silver interconnects between the ZDAC and ZSTAGE. I have Decware Silver Reference Cables going from the ZSTAGE to the amp. Both the Mac silver and Decware short copper sound great. For me, the Decware copper have been a tad warm though they have great bass, and are very detailed and articulate.  I am probably less warm oriented than many folks but the jury is still out on these because this thing is changing fast these days and having the short copper in right now sounds pretty great. Alternately the MAC cables are a little dry and tight for me but pleasantly clean and airy. I may have to shell our for half meter Decware Silver Reference Interconnects since they are so damn good….deep, articulate, fast, and most of all, offering amazing micro detail.

I agree with Steve's evaluation of the ZSTAGE - https://www.decware.com/cgi-bin/yabb22/YaBB.pl?num=1281666277/5#5. I really do like it too. It brings a rich and atmospheric unity to the whole while bringing amazing focus to individual instruments and increased black between. It gives a soft liquid warmth and body without sacrifice to detail. The contrary in fact. And with the gain nob, it easily adds or subtracts focus, dynamics, warmth and body. And the bias switch is awesome. In the simplicity of the unit, it really works…like Steve suggested….its like adding a bit of nitrous to the sound. To me it pumps all the presentation qualities in a comfortably musical and even way. I like it better than the bias switch on my Torii which in my system can sometimes sound hard or a little thick when switched in. It is like the ZSTAGE bias switch adds punch and focus across the spectrum along with a a very nice dose of harmonic detail. I only use the one on the ZSTAGE now as it is more versatile in its ability to adjust relatively transparently for the many different recording qualities.

A truly great aspect of the ZSTAGE sound is the smoothness it brings to the already smooth ZDAC1. This can sound like less detail at first but finally brings an amazing realness and accuracy to the sound…full of body, depth, and a liquid detail. I suspect the vinyl heads out there will really like this.

So like expected from Steve's design, the ZSTAGE has the qualities of a good tube stage crossed with a simple preamp. I like the ZDAC-1 by itself…plenty in fact, and was on the fence for a while, but once burned in, there is no doubt that the ZSTAGE is for me.



For a long time, I did not get Steve's evaluation in terms of being almost too transparent, though as it burns in, this opinion changes. I would not call it too transparent as in my system it adds a bit of sweet warmth, but I could not say it is particularly coloring either. Mind you, none of the tubes I am using in the Torii MkIII are stock, so the synergy with my amp could easily be a bit different. But within this, from a guy who tends to be afraid of some interpretations of "warmth", I really love how the ZSTAGE offers it because it does it with liquid smoothness, detail, body, and a rich articulation….no down side. So though not adding particular color, the ZSTAGE does effect the music in a pretty big way. It provides a very impressive complimentary and seductive sound that influences CD data in a very comforting way, magically making both good and not-so-good recordings better. When I took it out of the system, though it sounded great, it was really hard not to put it back in the loop. In fact I vowed to leave it out for three days to let my mind adjust, but had to put it back in about a half day later.

Is it outrageous? My system absolutely kicked ass before and when you start from great, getting greater may not be mind blowing, but it can be profound. Once burned in, the ZSTAGE is an amazing addition for a very beautiful, personally tailored musical experience. I suspect with its refined sound and the broad ranging tonal options bought about by the many, many 12... tubes and cables available that it would compliment any system. I highly recommend it.

Well, since Will's review I added the CSP2 back into my system, and finally discovered that the hum problem I'd had with its use before turned out to be a bad tube.  It was hard to isolate before perhaps because it sometimes works perfectly well. Anyway, although it was perhaps the best sounding tube on hand, replacing it allowed the CSP2 to be very transparent in the system.

I imagine that the CSP2 provides many of the benefits of the ZSTAGE, many of the characteristics that Will describes I would say are now also true of the sound in my system. I can add or subtract perceived "weight," etc. and there's a solidity to the sound that is very satisfying and I can relax into the sound (I could before re-introducing the CSP2 as well).  Additionally, the CSP2 has just gobs and gobs of gain if you need it.  I suspect that the gain level I'm using is very similar to that the ZSTAGE ouptus; I don't use very high gain out of the CSP2 as a general rule. But there's also two inputs (great for me as I use them both, one for my Sony SCD-XA5400 ES and one for the ZDAC-1) which makes it very flexible.

So after a spell, I re-introduced the ZBOX into the system. This is a very interesting combination:  I feed the two sources into the ZBox (mine was upgraded by Steve to accomodate an additional input and a toggle switch) and then feed the ZBOX into the CSP2. For the most part there's a bit deeper sound stage and a bit of smoothening of the tonal balance, both of which are welcome additions to the sound of the system for most material. It definitely aids the ZDAC-1 in my estimation. I still prefer the sound of the SCD-XA5400 ES both with and without the ZBOX in the system for Redbook cds (it's such a fabulous machine), but the gap is a bit narrowed comparing the ZDAC-1 with the ZBOX to the SCD-XA5400 ES.  Either way I have great sound, and the sound from my DVR and my Blu-Ray player through the ZDAC-1 gets raves from the Thrusday night group of friends who come over to watch Fringe and dvd or Blu-Ray discs.

On top of that, I am certain the CSP2 and the ZBOX are happy to be in use rather than gathering dust in a closet.

So, if you have a ZDAC-1 and are wondering about adding a ZBOX, I can recommend the combo. And though I have not heard the ZSTAGE (and as I own the CSP2 it seems unlikely I'd buy one) I can make an educated (?) guess and state that I bet it works great and would give you a chance at improved sound.

I've tried 12AT7s in the ZBox but prefer 12AU7s instead.  I bought a grab bag of 20 a few years ago for less than a dollar each and one labeled Westinghouse seems to be the best of the lot.  6N2Ps seem the best for the CSP2, and I THINK I have three of those in place, I know I have 2 and the third tube is likely one.

My goal is not to roll tubes and tailor the system for specific recordings but to somehow find the right combo that allows me to listen to all my sources and all my recordings without tweaking.  I had found a reasonable facsimile thereof before adding the CSP2 and ZBOX into the mix, and I'm working on rediscovering that with some success.

What works best for me is a dynamic sound with as natural (yeah, I know that word means something different to everyone, I think to me it means sounds of real instruments in a real room, live) a tonal balance as I can get with the variety of source types and quality. That's possibly easier to achieve with a source into the Torii. But there's a lot you can miss with that setup as well.

I think the secret is:  work hard, save enough money, get all the Decware products you can.

Yes, we love our Decware! I don't roll tubes for individual recordings....I just like to switch things up in general now and then. I do adjust the volumes regularly between the TORII and the ZSTAGE though for individual recordings. This is a great tool. More or less ZSTAGE generally means more or less body and bass, but aside from how it balances with the TORII, with the right tube synergy, it brings depth, solidity, micro detail and all the other good stuff that helps us get the beauty of real music.

I agree with your goal of natural sound  and a system flexible enough to give that for most any recording. It is so interesting how variable this illusive quality can be, and what helps us get there. Cables, sources, rocks, room treatment, tubes, preamps, stages...on and on....so many ways to try to find that illusive quality. And every time I get closer, I am more amazed at how much more real it became having previously figured I was really close!

For me, with the ZDAC and with the Rega, the ZSTAGE seriously helps in the quest for natural sound and the flexibility to easily adjust on the fly for various recording qualities. I really like it a lot.

Ah, Steve's reference DAC....hmmmm.

Another update:  the ZBOX seems inoperable, it's not a tube, fuse, etc. It's going back to Steve as soon as Christmas is over, and as soon as I can print a Return Authorization Form, having trouble with my printer.

The plus side of this experimentation is that I'm really enjoying the use of the CSP2, experimenting with output gain, etc. This preamp has really changed the sound of my system. And for the better. I've also been experimenting with Herbie's Audio Lab isolation products, moving things around, adding a few different pieces, etc.

Hi Will,

I'm a big fan of Herbie's Audio Lab products and of Steve Herbelin. NOONE has faster service than he, he generally mails out an hour or two after I place an order, and all products are meticulously packaged and prepared.

I started out early with Herbie's Audio Lab buying their "halo" rings for the tubes. Very useful products that can whipe out microphonic problems and helps to elminate the dreaded "digital glare" in my opinion.  I recenlty bought his most updated models of Halos for the main system, and they're highly recommended, an improvement over his original design. I confess I now have the Halos on every tube in my main system, and almost all of those in my second system (new home of my originally purchased Halos.)  They just bring me a little closer to natural sound. It's quite apparent that they work well to me whenever I use my reference material (tapes I recorded of bands I was in, recorded in my then garage apartment) to compare with and without them.

To house my components I use a Mapleshade Samson rack, with 4" platforms for my CD and Blu-Ray sources and my Torii MKIII amp, and I have behind this an OLD maple table with another 4" maple platform on it for my small chassis items (ZDAC-1, CSP2 --- mine is in the old style chassis --- and ZBOX). For some time I used Mapleshade Isoblocks under the platforms and Mapleshade Triplepoints. But I started using Herbie's Audio Lab Iso Cups under the components, and preferred their presentation to the Triplepoints. the music lost a certain metalic timbre that I notice with the Triplepoints. Then I read that some Mapleshade platform users had replaced the Isoblocks with Herbie's Grungebuster dots, so I tried that out. Another improvement. I had used Herbie's Tenderfoot footers in my second system, and after reading up on Herbie's products online (in review at audiogon etc.) it dawned on me that though the Iso Cups are perfect for the tubed components, the Tenderfoot footers may work better for the source components (none of the ones I use currently have tubes) and so I tried Tenderfoot footers under the sources (including ZDAC-1) and was very impressed. There's a bit less "bloom" (which may not be "accurate," really) and more dynamics and vim and vigor to the sound.

I also have experimented with their Sonic Stabilizers and was surprised to find that they can be the icing on the cake. I have one on each of my components now and several on the Torii.

Again, Steve Herbelin's service is really unparalleled and I consider his products to work as advertised and to be very reasonably priced for their performance, a quality that makes them seem very appropriate for Decware systems. Like Steve Deckert, Steve Herbelin is a knowledgeable man with gobs of relevant experience who is not afraid to think outside the box, is always willing to put himself out there for others, and I am confident you'll have comfortable dealings with him.

will, sorry, I missed this response and I can add a bit of info about footers.

I had decided to try out Herbie Audio Lab's "Baby Booties" on the ZDAC-1 and the ZBOX.  Had the ZDAC-1 on the "Booties" for a few weeks before the ZBOX came back and it seems just the right footer for a component of this size and weight. I got the ZBOX back yesterday and it sounds amazing, now also sitting on the "Booties." A very nicely priced way to isolate these components. I'd wager they'd be perfect for the ZSTAGE.

I'm really enjoying the ZBOX's return. One reason:  the input toggle switch on my CSP2 has a bad area and with my modified ZBOX with two inputs, I can use that toggle to toggle between sources and avoid using the CSP2 toggle and its problem. And I enjoy what the ZBOX does, especially for the DVR and the ZDAC-1. I can definitely imagine that the ZDAC-1/ZBOX/ZSTAGE combo is stunning.

Well, I missed out on them a long time as well. What surprised me was that they sound a bit better with these components than the Tenderfeet do. Things are just a bit more. . . alive.  It's not a dramatic difference, but the Tenderfeet went into my second system.

Can't go wrong with Herbie's Audio Lab!

Okay will, since we're talking about these footers.  I did some repositioning and listening and here's my analysis of positioning.

There are three "signatures" (a set of subtle sonic changes) I've isolated using the Baby Booties or Tenderfeet.

The one I've settled on is stacked, three Tenderfeet under the ZDAC-1, the ZBOX sitting on Booties on top. This gives a very open, dynamic sound, with the imaging and staging just a tad laid back.

With the two components standing alone, Booties underneath is a nice rich sound, just a bit more forward sounding, I think of it as "vibrant." If not for my constant desire it seems for the sound to be a bit "laid back," this would be my choice configuration. A very similar sound is achieved with the two components stacked and Booties under each. If there's any difference in this configuration it may be that there's a bit more "richness," which as you'd guess for some recordings is the cat's meow.

The different configurations are related to the differences in "bias" positions on the Decware amps or ZSTAGE, but far subtler. I think I will now conclude my "isolation component rolling" which for a while seemed to be leading into the sort of mania that "tube rolling" had.

It's a fascinating process. My findings pretty much match yours. I haven't done extensive experimentation with placement of the feet on the components. . . seems from what exploration I have done putting either Iso Cups or Tenderfeet near the four corners of the component give the most natural sound, but it's really a subtle thing. The Tenderfeet I'm using are the most current versions. I did try Tenderfeet under both the ZBOX and ZDAC and the results are very good, a very airy and ambient sound. replacing the top Tenderfeet with the Booties just added a touch of richness, or warmth, or "thickness" and a bit of vibrance, and pushed the image and stage back a bit. That was the porridge that was "just right" for most all the recordings through my system. I think you may be "just right" just as you are, that would be my guess. Next time you feel adventurous, you could try four Booties and see what happens.

If you let it, the process never ends!  I've stopped my changes for a while. Sound is killer!

I'm glad the ZSTAGE is being such a great component in your system. I think I'm accomplishing similar ends with the CSP2 and ZBOX, but the ZSTAGE is a much cheaper situation!

"And yes the ZSTAGE is a great addition to my system..."
--Will

Interesting observations gentlemen.

Will, I certainly share your admiration for the Torii MK III. I'm not sure which is the more important item in my system, my source, this amp, or the amazing speakers that Bob built that I listen to for everything it at all possible.  I'm so happy to have all three, and all my other components. Hope I never have to do without them.

For me with this system at the stellar level I now believe it to be I see two roads to travel: to embrace and embellish the recording or to get as close as I can to the musical message. I find that for my instance, where I have perhaps as many recordings that sound good to great, and perhaps just as many that sound less good and perhaps not even good, is to find the best all around tonality and dynamism that works for the broadest range of recordings so that I separate myself from thinking about the recorded sound as much as possible. My whole journey with Decware actually seems to have been to arrive at this point. The real catalyst in my case seems to have been the Sony SACD player that I have, the SCD-XA5400ES. That device seems to get the very best out of the redbook data, and the Torii and IT Radials then offer it up with speed and solidity.

I've taken the ZBOX back out as it has a big hum issue and it's not tube-related, I think it's related to IC and power cord situations that I can't seem to avoid. The interesting thing is every time I take the ZBOX out I feel it's "better" so I'm taking it into the second system, where it does not have hum issues.

Edited:


Will, sorry if this is a hijack, but I have my Taboo sitting on Herbie's Tenderfeet right now, but noticed it had rounded hard feet, that look like they would fit inside the Herbie's Iso-Cups. Are you using the IsoCups with the lampblack balls, or in some other way?

Thanks Will! Info is much appreciated. And your reference to 4 answered my next question. When I first used Tenderfeet, I used 3 per item, but eventually went to four.

Steve at Herbie's advised me against placing the Taboo hard rubber feet directly into the IsoCups, and his explanation about the coupling of two resilient masses makes sense. So that approach won't work, but I like the IsoCup/Lampblack ball theory, so I may go ahead and spring for a set and try them.

Greg

I can see why you like the front IsoCups away from the corners, I find in my room/system there's more bass with the front IsoCups near the corners of the Torii.

OK Lon...you dog you....I thought I might be done.

You have wetted my appetite. Can you describe the difference from changing over from tenderfeet to isocups on your components. And are you using the steel bases? I can imagine that it sounds quite good!

Hmmm. Probably true, but I wonder... maybe we just need slightly different treatments to get a similar sound??? With room being purported to give 40% or so of the sound, who knows. I wish I could hear yours to find out! I know mine sounds amazing with a palpable, deep, rich, open, an almost magically real feeling presentation.

Also, I think that as you've gone the room treatment route, and I haven't,  we'll have different needs in fine tuning. It's a great thing there are so many options!

Well to me it's perhaps a more clearly delineated difference between recordings and live music as I have both happening in my living room. When I play an instrument or someone plays an instrument in my living room, it's radically different than the sound of a recording. So I always have that shift, and I'm daily aware of the differences in the same living space.

I can really enjoy recordings, but they're always recordings to me, and I've long given up the idea that a playback system can make something real. Still I'm listening to a Horowitz performance right now on cd (from the excellent Original Jacket Collection box) and that can't be accomplished in real time in my room for a number of reasons! I love my recordings, and cherish my time with them; the hours of enjoyment are central to my life. With the system as it is now I'm closest to just taking the playback as it is and enjoying the sound of the recordings as background to reading or surfing or as full-attention listening. (Or viewing as I also use this system for TV and DVD and Blu-Ray).  That's my goal: to be setup and then. . . the setup forgotten.

PR,

What's your opinion of the IsoCups?  I become more and more impressed with Steve Herbelin's products.

I'll mention this here as will and I have been talking about the ZBox like qualities of the ZStage and the ZBox. . . . I took the ZBox out of the main system again and put it into the second system. And once again I noticed that the treble is a bit more aggressive without it (but certainly good to listen to and probably "accurate") and there's a bit more dynamics, and the bass is less "thick" . . . I'm enjoying the system without it. Currently I have the CSP2 on three IsoCups and the ZDAC-1 on three tall Tenderfeet.

Thanks for the reply. I'm really happy with the IsoCups as well. Great stuff indeed. Glad you dig them. I essentially hear the changes the same way!

Quote:

Thanks for the great review!