Forums - TORll ll Mklll

Samac

Ex Member

TORll ll Mklll
12/31/09 at 16:36:13

Hello All,

I hope all is well and you had a great Christmas holiday.

I'm new to the forum and had some questions, if you don't mind.

I looking to get a pair of highly damped, sealed box two-way monitors (87db, 6.5 ohm low 14 ohm high). I'm looking at getting a tube amp and was wondering if the TORll might be a good choice.

I'm not worried about high spls. I don't listen above 90 db peaks. In fact I rarely liten above 85db peaks. I'm only concerned that the amp is driving the speakers correctly and that I'm not taxing the amp. In other words, I don't want to hold back the speakers or the amp.

My room is 16.5'x13.5'x8'h, opened on either end by 6' openings to a small foyer and a dining room (13.5'x10'x8'h).

My listening priorities area a huge, holographic soundstage and tonal saturation with room filling sound. Sorry about the audio geek speak. I hope that conveys what I'd like to hear.

Sorry, I know these a very general questions but wanted to see if anybody had any thoughts.

Thanks for your time and any insight.

Cheers,

Scott

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ZYGI

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Re: TORll ll Mklll
Reply #1 - 12/31/09 at 17:35:39

Hi Scott,

Welcome to the forum!!!

Since we don't know what the speakers are, and many of us may not of ever heard the combination that you are thinking about, it may work very well, on the other hand it may work very well but not be a true synergistic match.

If you are thinking of going bookshelf size monitors, the DM944 speakers and either the Mini Torii or the Torii-III would work and are very synergistic with each other. The DM944 image with the best of them, speaking of conventional speakers, but if you want sound stage, the ERR's would have to be your number one choice and for your listening levels either amp would work just fine, however the power of the MK-III is very seductive.

Hope this helps,
ZYGI

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Samac

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Re: TORll ll Mklll
Reply #2 - 12/31/09 at 17:59:10

Hi ZYGI,

Thanks for the warm welcome and your reply and thoughts.

If it helps, the speakers are the Merlin TSM-MMe. I was reading a review of the TORll ll and was intrigued that someone was using and enjoying the TORll with the TSMs big brother the VSM.

http://www.merlinmusic.com/tsm.htm

I had a 16 watt SET on the VSMs but had to let go of that system. Looking to get most of that sound back on a much smaller budget.

I'm pretty set on the TSM. If they don't work out I'll look at others. The offerings from Decware look wonderful.

You mentioned synergism and I guess that's what I'm looking for. If the TORll would drive these speakers correctly then I'd have what I'm looking for, I bet.

Look forward to more thoughts that you and others might have. Thanks again.

Cheers,

Scott

Anybody around southwest Ohio that would want to show off their system? Would love to hear some Decware amps in action. Especially the TORll.

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ZYGI

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Posts: 757

Re: TORll ll Mklll
Reply #3 - 12/31/09 at 23:09:53

Scott,

I have no doubt that the Torii-III will drive the speakers, and drive them well, that wasn't what I meant. The match up of Merlens and Torii, might be as synergistic as it gets too. I was just making comment on what I know to be a synergistic match up. and for sure the best bang for the buck.

I know of a Mini Torii around the Akron OH area, as well as an Integrated (SE34-I) and the original Torii (still my favorite Decware amp) if you don't have enough posts to IM let me know and I will IM Chris for you.

ZYGI

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Samac Ex Member	Re: TORll ll Mklll Reply #4 - 01/01/10 at 03:59:01 ZYGI, Good to hear the confident vote for the TORll driving the Merlins well. I have family near the Akron area. Would be great to visit a like minded hifi friend and hear their system. I'll have to see if I can IM. Thanks for the help. Scott
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Chris K

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Posts: 299

Re: TORll ll Mklll
Reply #5 - 01/01/10 at 16:33:38

Good Morning!
Chris here. Indeed an option would be to listen here at my house. I wouldn't mind hearing the Merlin's as well. You can never hear too much hi-fi gear IMHO. Grin

I have 5 sets of ZYGI/Decware speakers too but no Big TORII YET!
Hope to have a MkII or Mk III sometime soon!

PM me. If not I'll PM . Not available till mid January though.

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Lon

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Posts: 25750

Re: TORll ll Mklll
Reply #6 - 01/01/10 at 19:44:00

I'd be concerned about the Merlin's and their low efficiency. Yeah, the Torii will drive them probably quite well. . but the seductive thing about the Torii is having that headroom, it gives an ease to the sound that is unlike anything else I've heard in a tube amp. Yes, you can get lots of headroom from a solid state rig, but they don't sound like a Torii!

Or maybe it's just my bias. . . after getting the RL1 Radials from Steve and Bob years ago, I've been addicted to the Radial sound, and NOTHING else moves me as they do.

Anyway, you can't go wrong with the Torii.

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Samac

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Re: TORll ll Mklll
Reply #7 - 01/01/10 at 22:22:48

Hey Chris,

Good to hear from you. Thanks fro the offer. I'd like to make it up there sometime. We'll probably head north, weather permitting, about the middle of January by chance. Your right, you can never hear too much hifi.

When I get the Merlin's your welcome to come take a listen. I'm using a couple pair of old Klipsch now. I've got a pair of forte' I've owned for the past twenty years. And a few months back I picked up a near mint pair of KG4s from my brother-in-law.

5 sets of speakers?! What are you running them all with?

Hey Lon,

Thanks for the post. I'd probably be concerned too, if it wasn't for the fact that Merlin has received such glowing reports when they show their speakers with a 30 watt tube integrated.

Like ZYGI said, it's a synergy thing. I once had an 80 watt KT88 integrated beast on my forte' and it was awful. My little NAD wiped the floor up with it. My NAD even cleaned the clock of an Audio Note Oto and a Mac 6300. I've been amazed how tough a good speaker/amp combo is to come up with.

Even though my forte' are 98db sensitive they have a 3.2 ohm low in the bass and over 120 ohm high on the highs (according to Klipsch). The Merlin are lower sensitivity at 87 db but a nice easy 8 ohm load with a 6.5 ohm low and 14 ohm high at the crossover.

I know exactly what you mean by an ease to the sound and your right, that might be missing if I run the Merlins. But I'm hooked on the presentation from those speakers right now and I've got to give it a shot. Just need to decide which amp to go with.

Thanks for the replies guys. Keep 'em coming.

Cheers,

Scott

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Rivieraranch Seasoned Member Posts: 2132	Re: TORll ll Mklll Reply #8 - 01/02/10 at 01:15:05 You should try the MKIII with your Klipsch speakers first. Why would you use a bookshelf speaker instead of a full range floorstander?
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Samac

Ex Member

Re: TORll ll Mklll
Reply #9 - 01/02/10 at 01:41:51

Hey Rivieraranch

I can't begin to tell high tired I am of trying to get the big forte' to work. I used to really enjoy them back when I had them in a big room with my Pioneer rack system with a equalizer and cranked up.

That was way before I cared about anything hifi. By that I mean imaging, soundstage and great tone. I've had ss and tubes on them and they just wear me out. They have decent bass but the mid and tweeter horns just scream at me.

So I've got me a sub and I'm ready for some smooth highly resolved monitors. I put my KG4s in place of the forte's and things improved. The KG4 only has a horn tweeter. I guess it's just taken me a long time to figure out I'm not a klipsch horn guy.

I would love to put the Merlin floorstander in my room but they are WAY out o my budget.

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Rivieraranch Seasoned Member Posts: 2132	Re: TORll ll Mklll Reply #10 - 01/02/10 at 02:18:03 Thanks for the explanation. My Klipsch RB5II's shouted at me in my listening room, too. You should be good with the DM944's and a sub woofer. But my speaks, the MG944's will handle anything.
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Chris K

Seasoned Member

Posts: 299

Re: TORll ll Mklll
Reply #11 - 01/02/10 at 03:39:28

Scott,
I think you'd be mighty impressed with the speakers I have assembled. All Decware and/or derivatives of same. All floor standing, and they are not out of budget. I know how much Merlin stuff is, I'd really like to compare Merlin speakers with what is here. Do know there is dealers in PA and Merlin is in western side of NY state so is only about 4 hours away from me. Scot you have a pretty good memory of what the Merlin "sound" is?

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Samac

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Re: TORll ll Mklll
Reply #12 - 01/02/10 at 16:37:10

Hey Chris,

Comparing the Merlins to other speakers is something I look forward to also. If I find a speaker that does what it does significantly cheaper, then I'd buy them.

Boy, what do they sound like. It's been about four years since I had them in the house. I had the VSM-MMe floorstander. I'll try to explain what I hear but everyone seems to have different ways to explain what they hear. Tongue

In a nutshell. They are very detailed, very transparent. Some say they are analytical but I've never felt that way. That being said, I do want a very good tonally rich and fleshed out tube amp to pair with them. The detail and decay of sound is what blows me away by these speakers. I'm really into hearing the recording venue on my music. Wether it be a big cathedral or the studio. I also love hearing all the tones and bodies of acoustic instruments, from the initial attack to the last decay of the note. The one thing that surprised my was how smooth they are. Some actually don't care for them because they don't seem dynamic enough. So it's interesting, tons of detail but not in your face. Kind of the exact opposite of My Klipsch, which have very good detail but just throws it at me like a sledgehammer.

The TSM monitor has the same house sound from 55hz and up as the VSM. And on the pre owned market can be had for a relatively reasonable price.

I'm going to stop myself now. I tend to ramble when I start talking hifi.

Cheers,

Scott

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Lon Seasoned Member "Love without guts is worthless!" Philip K. Dick Posts: 25750	Re: TORll ll Mklll Reply #13 - 01/03/10 at 03:45:38 Huh. . . the things you love about the Merlin. . . are what I love about the Radial design! Although they seem quite dynamic as well.
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Samac Ex Member	Re: TORll ll Mklll Reply #14 - 01/03/10 at 04:19:16 I'll tell ya, Lon, comparing speakers will be very interesting and entertaining. The ERRs look very intriguing. I lived with the Ohm 300 Mkll For a while. I really enjoyed them and the omni presentation. Very nice, big soundstage. The imaging was a bit vague though.
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Lon

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Re: TORll ll Mklll
Reply #15 - 01/03/10 at 14:20:20

The imaging is the thing with the Radials: an instrument sounds just as it should, where it should. That's very important to me, and the Radials deliver!

The ohm speakers I heard I heard so long ago, and in a sort of altered state

I don't remember really sounding a lot like Radials. . . . . Long ago and far away though. I do remember first hearing my first set of Radials and feeling certain I've never heard anything like them.

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