Very, very nice job indeed!
You already know the next question!!
Don

Robert,

Very nice job indeed!  I like the different approach that you took on the style. That makes them unique and special.

Just talking to Bob about them. We already know one quick and easy mod to those Fostex drivers which will make a profound difference in their performance.

You will have to get with Bob about the details as it is well worth your time to do so.

I wish that my cabinets had your characteristics, as my problem with these speakers is just the opposite.

I have so much bass that I have had to find ways to reduce well over half what these put out in my room. This set of speakers has been the most troublesome of all when it comes to bass issues. The MK2's will never be as clean and accurate as the original HDT models with the alternate passives and DFR8 drivers. I can assure you that I want to stay well away from the corners with my set! I had to build a massive 63 Hz resonator to tame the rooms response down to be acceptable with these speakers. The bass is powerful and easily over driven with these in my room. It took the resonator and some very large quantities of room treatments throughout to make the MK2'S respond favorably. The room is large with a good deal of space all around.

I guess that your situation is a blessing really, as you would not want my issues with the MK2's. It is far easier to create bass than to reduce it in a satisfactory way.

All of my other speakers work superbly in this room with outstanding results. If you could hear the Kadence models in my current room set-up, it would raise both of your eyebrows with a twitch or two. A very good example of how things sound when everything comes together just right.

Again, good work. I hope that you get much enjoyment out of them. It is always nice to build something for yourself to be proud of.

Take care.

Paul.

Darn Grills

HI Yoda,

I actually thought of that yesterday and it made me think about my objectives with these speakers when I originally decided to build them. I have always been a "basshead". Hence the humongous subwoofer in the room. After hearing some of Bob's designs and several others over the last couple of years, I remembered some of the sound off cars I built that had the ability to play quiet sounds and be very pleasing at low volumes and the fact that in that small, near field listening environment, I could always adjust my bass to the music or preference of the listener. That's why I decided to go with the fostex driver. I heard several speakers using it that I really liked. Two or three of those used only that driver. I had enough bass in the room to compensate for any losses the cabinet might experience and I had it tuned low enough to make the towers as low tuned as I could. The one thing I wanted was that effortless ability to reproduce the mid (telephone band?) sound that I liked so much about these other enclosures. I figured if the speaker was lacking at either end, I would be happy so long as I could get that magic that the full rangers seem so good at. I certainly accomplished this so I should be extremely happy. I bet there are a lot of contributing factors to the lack of low extension. I can think of several. The lower mounting of the bass driver in the baffle should likely lower the F3 of the transmission line portion of the box several hz (if not 15 or 20), the extra driver in the cabinet certainly has an effect on the resonance as well (extra cone area and same tl dimensions), The ports in the averaging chamber are effectively, slightly too large due to a mistake in my construction. I could pick it apart all day, but the thing is I love them just the same. THey work perfectly in this room for what my goals were and that's extremely important. I only mention that they are a bit thin in the low extension because I am comparing them to other speakers that I have heard in other rooms. Not exactly fair of me to do that. I can promise that even Bob would likely tell me they sound great in my room. I would bet they don't sound so good in his room though and that is the secret of good design. Flexibility. I think that is why I am so fond of the radials. That is also why my next project is an omni directional monster. I have three drawings on the table. I also have a friend who may want these for her room and if that is the case, I will be sending them her way as soon as I build my next set.

Never satisfied right? lol

My sincerest wish now is that I could make enough money or work in a trade where, I could just play with this stuff as much as I wanted lol.

The bottom line is these were designed to give me that mid-range magic of a Fostex design and they accomplished that with flying colors. They just aren't something I would even try to compare to Steve's product and certainly wouldn't try to sell as such. I am certain his sound better in most rooms. Of course, I may have another think after I get a few hundred hours on them lol. We'll have to see about that lol.

Take care,
Robert

Edit: Phase was my first thought when I hooked them up. I not only checked it, but even tried playing one speaker at a time to test bass output on it's own. They are definitely in phase. The bass is very sharp with a lot of attack. It is tight and punchy, but just doesn't have a lot of decay or carry in the room. The word I would use is weight. They just seem a little light in the loafers without the sub. This could be my subjective opinion though since I have been listening to the sub for so long. Certain music sounds terrific without it so the problem is extremely small. It's not like they have "NO bass at all" so I am probably being a bit biased after years of listening to car stereos and very loud concerts. Of course, it could be the program material too lol.

Hey Robert.
I have been hanging out a little more lately and noticed your thread and remember you talking about it.
Very nice, great finish
Glad your adaptation worked out well for you. Its strange to me why they do not have the weight to them. Myself being a X basshead it always takes a while to readjust to a set of detailed speakers.

enjoy.
Gex

FWIW, in most systems I've heard, the sub is almost always far too prominent. I realize for HT, etc. that's the desired effect, but it always leaves me feeling like the presentation is seriously unbalanced.
As much as it's a bit of a pain sometimes, I'm forever adjusting the output on mine to where it can't really be heard. I like it when the only way you can tell it's on, is by turning it off!
Sounds like your new speakers are sounding as good as they look!
Don

Robert,

 Looking pretty good, nice build!!!

 As far as the bass issues go, might your HT receiver have the speakers set to small.  You may have never noticed it with smaller "cheesy" computer speakers.
BobZ

Had the opportunity to do some deep listening recently and I have some conclusions.

These are the best sounding speakers I have ever owned by at least 10,000%. I have done so many car systems with full active XO networks and seriously researched time alignment etc. I even have a full blown system in my Impala right now. It sounds like trash next to these speakers.

With the SI amp, they are smooooooooth. I can only imagine what it will be like if I ever get a tube amp going with these things. I have discovered the main difference in full range and multi way speakers and a way to describe it.

With the multi way speakers and with the car systems, inevitably, I end up using some sort of sound equalization to adjust the midrange (telephone band) of frequencies to a level that is either even with the lows and highs or to make the speakers listenable. Even if they do a terrific job in this range, it is still this area that needs adjustment to make them sound "right". Once that is done, it is so easy to tell what has been done. You can just "feel" that the mids are either attenuated or boosted to cause the sound you are hearing.

With these speakers, everything is set to 0. There is no boost, no attenuation, and no adjustment necessary. With the subwoofer turned completely off, the sound is effortless and open. They just sound "right". Steve said that when listening to a good speaker, other speakers sound broken. I now know what he meant. It took me listening in an A/B environment and swtiching between good and what i used to think was good to understand.

call it image, stage, warmth, clarity, flatness, brightness, openness, or anything else you want, it is just a difference in the way you hear the sound. Simple fact is, the full range speakers do something no other speakers do and they do it without being manipulated into it.

I will still build more experiments, but I definitely have my own benchmark for my room now.

Thanks for the plans and all the advice to everyone at DecWare. Thanks especially to Bob for putting up with me!

Take care,
Robert

Mahalo Mike,

I have to admit, if I were to do this again, I believe I would build the MKII version exactly by the plans. Other than that, I am pleased to say it is inspiring to know how good they can sound. I have played a lot with them over the weekend and even my wife found herself sitting there just listening.

Good luck with whatever project you choose Mike!

Robert

The dual plate setup on the MK II's is an imaging enhancement and a bass enhancement.  Even the regular HDT would probably sound better with the dual plate system.  In the dual plate system, the first plate is screwed to the cabinet through spikes.  You can lift the entire cabinet by it.  It has a hole with 1/3rd the area of the transmission line below it.  The second plate is then floating above the first on spikes and is pinned tuned to the first plate with a single bolt in the center.  Adjusting the tension on the bolt actually tunes the plates.  The tension works with the cabinet resonance to cancel each other out resulting in much tighter bass.  

It's a good thing I'm not smart because my speaker designs might become complicated.

;)

WoW!

I haven't been here in a long time and didn't even know anyone had checked the thread. I opted for the single plate on mine simply because I felt the build was complex enough for my abilities. To be honest, I found it to be a bit beyond my abilities to do correctly, but I was, and still am, extremely pleased with the results.

Steve, please don't get any smarter! I don't want to build anything more complicated than this ever again! lol

Curious to see the plates.  I made single plates that rest on top.   I built the HDT's when they were first published, switched over to the MkII drivers.   I missed that single full range sound and had decware bring my 206's up to date.  So today I'm implementing the Alternate tuning setup.