Okay. . . regarding the photo. . . .

SHWING!

Since we have entered the area of OPTs,  I have a question.  Older audiophiles will remember the Carver silver seven tube amp.  Bob Carver built a sample to prove he could build a great tube amp.  Mike Kay at Lyric Audio encouraged production, and it was distributed.  Enough background.  I remember hearing a pair with rather poor loudspeakers, not much of a demo.  The unusual aspect of the amp was that each output had two OPTs, and I don't believe that they were identical.  My question is "Why two different paralleled trannies?''  I haven't seen this configuration anywhere else.

Steve

I see two inputs on each monoblock - I'm guessing one is for use with the pot and the other is direct (bypassing the pot)?

Also, couldn't find much on the OA3 tube on the internet. If it's used for voltage regulation, is there any tube-rolling advantages for this particular type?



- Ray

If I'm understanding correctly then, the 0A3 is the tube eqivalent of a Zener diode.  

John C.

And here is what it looks like in the alternate black zen base...  



Steve

Bias switch:  Same as the SE84ZS.  The switch is eliminated.  The tube is biased mid way between the two points.

Steve Deckert wrote on 09/08/07 at 00:23:47:



The reality Steve is that a Plitron transformer won't fit on your chassis. I am not saying that a Plitron is superior because it is more expensive. It is superior because of its design/designer. Bigger is not always better, true. But in this case, better happens to be bigger.



Corey

Corey: Maybe you should wait a bit befor passing judgement on something none of us have yet heard!
                                                                                                                            Don

I'm quite sure Randy's comment was in jest...

Dave

Spending Randy's money is fun!

Terry wrote on 09/12/07 at 06:59:27:


Terry, I love the old style monos with the chrome decks - absolutely sexy looking. I think Steve also made the monos in the not so dressed up black boxes also.

And don't forget the drool towel  :)
https://www.decware.com/towel.jpg" alt="" title="" border="0" />

- Ray

paulc wrote on 09/12/07 at 10:18:35:




Unfortunately, Mrs. Randy has become quite good at it ..... like I needed any help .....  ;D

Doorman wrote on 09/11/07 at 23:00:22:


Don,

First off let me explain where I am coming from. I spent a great deal of money taking the Decware output transformers to the limit by having a Decware amp of mine modified by Eddie Vaughn of Vaughn Audio. That particular amp used EL34's which can be run hotter and with more current than the SV83's. A tube that really shed light on exactly what the Decware output transformers could handle in terms of current.

In an effort to get more low end attack, the designer attempted more current but to no avail. You simply can't change the laws of physics. In dealing with an SET transformer, the design will saturate at a given point, hence larger iron is used to handle more current. If you want the low end grunt and impact that makes an SET sound like a 200 watt SS, then you NEED large iron, that's reality.

After talking about the shortcomings of the Decware iron in the low end registers, Eddie told me that the midbass attack was incredible and very musical, and that is the key to the Decware sound, the midbass. When the midbass is fast, fluent and doesn't interfere with the midrange coherency, the sound can be very good. Couple that with the fact that many customers have not put any effort in their rooms to deal with low end modal issues, and the midbass response can be favourable. Nothing appears to be missing. This is how Decware customers are hearing their SET's on the average full range driver or speaker system not incorporating a sub system. The music is enjoyable and the bass lines track musically, snappy and coherent.

Enter the next step into an SET amp: large iron. Is large iron a trade off in sound? Not if you go with the good stuff. The trade off is cost and space. You can't sell an amp to broke audiophiles using expensive iron and you can't tuck that iron inside your amp making everything look all clean, petite and pretty. Amen?

So to answer your statement, I would have to be waiting for the laws of physics to change to be guilty of passing judgement on the new mono blocks without hearing them. Been there, done that, spent $2500 on the T-shirt. Perhaps if I owned a pair of Decware Corner Horns in a perfect custom room then I might be satisfied with the low end authority of the Decware iron. Unfortunately I will never own a pair of those speakers and it appears that not many others will be owning a pair as well. I have heard of only one pair built since the introduction of the plans.

That leaves myself and the thousands of others owning full range cabinets with the option to spend more money and enjoy the attack and authority that only expensive, large wound transformers can produce. This means getting in touch with someone who CAN build you an exceptional sounding, one-off custom amp and it also means starting at around $2000. If I am going to be spending $2000 on amplification, I certainly am not going to limit my low end response with Decware iron. Scrabble wound, monopoly wound, call it what you like. The low end pressure is severely lacking compared to what's available.

Am I making many friends with this post? Most likely not. Am I against Decware? Not at all, but when I think of the name, I think of speakers.



Corey

Corey,
1. You are right about the importance of the room.
2. I disagree about the Decware iron. Are you confining your "limited bass" to the SET  line up?
3. Both of the Torii's with the Imperials will produce chest thumping, clear as as a bell low end bully.
4. I agree with Dave, you're coming of as a marketing pitch.

Tim

change_out wrote on 09/12/07 at 20:15:12:


I agree totally with this statement, Tim, except both of the Torii's go against what's being discussed, in fact they almost prove Corey correct.  That, and the Imperials are hardly a fair speaker to use as a bass reference comparison.

4. I agree with Dave, you're coming of as a marketing pitch.

Marketing pitch or reality check?  Corey has spent enough $$ to know what works at what doesn't, therefore his opinion is justified.




Jason

Jason wrote on 09/12/07 at 21:05:49:



Lets get to the point then and be brutally honest... I have not heard any SE amp that was up to task in the bass department. I mean bass so tight, so real that nausea is an issue. I have 'big iron' and the bass response is better than smaller iron. But the fact is that it still is not enough... even with the imperial. I end up using SS for the lowest octave. I wish I could truely run single driver full range. But I am caught in the enigma of how a small OPT can sound sweeter, more detailed, and even more holographic than larger iron. But Corey is completely right that for bass bigger iron is better. Here is something to think about... I find cheap Hammond 125CSE OPT to sound very sweet at the top, maybe even better than my Electraprint iron.

Perhaps Steve realizes true magic is in the midrange and top... and is not willing to give that up. It is not that he can't make big iron, it is that he is not willing to compromise what makes his amps special.

So we really are all in the same boat... we wish one amp could do it all, but guess what... one amp can't. How you address that issue is your own compromise.

buzz

As has been mentioned several times in this thread ..... personal taste is the real issue.

Having said that, I am not a "bass freak" by any means.  The music that is my standard fare leans more toward the acoustic side with the lowest notes being produced by an acoustic bass or piano.  I am not much into electronically produced bass.  A Decware Select and CSP2 driving a pair of speakers with the capability to reproduce the bass notes produced by acoustic instruments is extremely realistic and satisfying.  It has been my experience that a good number of folks have been conditioned by the over-emphasized bass that dominates popular music.

I attend events on a regular basis where live piano and acoustic bass are played (unamplified) and I have no complaints about the bass I am hearing from my home system .....  8-)

Steve has stated often that the CSP2 "completes" the sound of the Zen amps and takes the sound to the next level.  The enhanced bass is a big part of that package.  Don't make the mistake of thinking that the Select is bass shy (with suitable speakers) until you have heard it with the CSP2.

Randy

Randy in Caintuck wrote on 09/12/07 at 22:09:32:


Very true, Randy.  My audio systems have always had fairly flat frequency responses.  The bass is there, but not overpowering.  You miss it if it's rolled off, but its never the dominant feature.   Besides, there's not much below 40hz unless it's artificially introduced.

Jason

"The central research theme of Dr. Vladimir Gavreau was the development of remote controlled automatons and robotic devices. To this end he assembled a group of scientists in 1957."

"Housed in a large concrete building, the entire group periodically experienced a disconcerting nausea which flooded the research facility."

"The source was finally traced by building engineers to an improperly installed motor-driven ventilator."

"It was found that a low intensity pitch of a fundamental 7 cycles per second was being produced.  It became obvious that the slow vibrating motor was activating an infrasonic resonant mode in the large concrete duct. Operating as the vibrating "tongue" of an immense "organ pipe", the rattling motor produced nauseating infrasound."

-- Quotes taken from http://www.borderlands.com/archives/arch/gavreaus.htm

That's bass that makes you puke!

Jason

SE84ZSM
120/240 volt Zen Triode Monoblocks (pr)
$2095.00


It seems my mouse is going into autopilot towards the master catalog page........help help......I can't stop......

C Evans

buzz wrote on 09/13/07 at 00:05:44:


I don't think anyone is referring to infrasonics in reference to music, are they?

You should be safe from nausea at normal listening volumes, even if you are sensitive to higher bass frequencies.

Corey wrote on 09/12/07 at 19:29:35:


In my experience large iron favors bass performance at the expense of some magic in the upper ranges. This would hold true with any type of transformer regardless of cost. So I have to respectfully disagree with this statement.

Quote:


Well I appreciate your enthusiasm for your findings but it is after all largely your opinion - results will vary for other people. Those with speakers that have real bass to begin with... and or those who would place more priority on the overall signature of an amp than visceral bass, for example.

In any case Decware is proudly known for it's amplifiers and will continue to be regardless of the fact that when you think of the name, you think of speakers.  You really have to wonder why a guy would make a statement like that in the very thread I used to announce our best SET amp ever...

Just out of curiosity I'd like to know why it was so important for you to get involved in this thread to begin with?  I'm sorry you tried to alter the design of your Decware SE34I and failed.  If you wanted that SET sound with superior bass performance you should have just got a TORII.  I don't care how much money you spend on iron for an SET, it will never have the bass performance of push-pull.  

For the record I know and like Eddy too.  I think his amps are great.  Hopefully I don't have customers over there in his forums trying to explain why Decware amps are so superior... that would be rather embarrassing.  Especially in a thread where he announces his latest new amplifier.

Steve

Now if only this thread https://www.decware.com/cgi-bin/yabb2/YaBB.pl?num=1189017032 got this much attention! I'm still very excited! What's the cost of the ZPOD Steve????

Jason

Well said, both Steve and Giorgino!

I look forward to listening to these new amps real soon.

giorgino wrote on 09/15/07 at 12:03:24:


Even as much as I avoid agreeing with anyone on anything, I have to whole-hearted agree with you, here.

I honestly don't understand what Corey is trying to do with his wide-brush statements, but his credibility is taking a hit.