Forums - large scale wicked one PA

lunarlab

Ex Member

large scale wicked one PA
11/13/05 at 19:27:30

Hello...I have just completed my 4th modified WO with 10 inch drivers for my PA rig with some homebrew 15 inch JBL rear horns and nice titanium tweeters on top. I am very pleased with the results and will build 4 more. Two per side really does make up the 3db loss outside...clean punchy bass. I had my new digital camera stolen at a gig on halloween so I cannot post pics yet. I will have the rest built for Shambhala music fest at the latest as I am sound tech and recording engineer for Beachstage again this coming year. I you like big sound and can make it to Nelson B.C next summer chek this festival out !!! http://shambhalamusicfestival.com/mambo
Check out the Village stage... http://lunarlab.greenbtn.com/music/pics/lab12.jpg they ran 16 lab horns this year and the bass was intense....DJ lorin rocked that system hard.... I want to put 16 wicked ones up against 16 of the lab horns. Undecided

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Braggi

Ex Member

Re: large scale wicked one PA
Reply #1 - 11/14/05 at 19:36:32

Congratualtions lunarlab!

Sounds like you've done what I have in mind. I have some questions for you: are you using Steve's 10" drivers or something else?

What do the 15" rear horns look like? Did you design these yourself?

Where are you crossing over? Active XO, I assume?

I'm picturing WOs doing 60hz and down, rear horns (OK, Imperials) for 60-1,000hz, and 2" horns for 1,000 and up.

So sorry about your camera. Hope it finds its way home. Do post pics when you get the capability.

Thanks for sharing. We'll all hold images in mind of stacks of Wicked Ones on the sides of a huge stage.

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gexter Ex Member	Re: large scale wicked one PA Reply #2 - 11/14/05 at 21:59:57 MMMMM MMMMM Stacks and Stacks of Wicked Ones. Once you know what one is capable of, Stacks of them is mind boogling. I will keep that festival in mind, thanks for mentioning it.
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lunarlab

Ex Member

Re: large scale wicked one PA
Reply #3 - 11/14/05 at 23:37:13

[quote author=Braggi link=1131913650/0#1 date=1131996992]Congratualtions lunarlab!

Sounds like you've done what I have in mind. I have some questions for you: are you using Steve's 10" drivers or something else?

What do the 15" rear horns look like? Did you design these yourself?

Where are you crossing over? Active XO, I assume?

I'm picturing WOs doing 60hz and down, rear horns (OK, Imperials) for 60-1,000hz, and 2" horns for 1,000 and up.

So sorry about your camera. Hope it finds its way home. Do post pics when you get the capability.

Thanks for sharing. We'll all hold images in mind of stacks of Wicked Ones on the sides of a huge stage. [/quote]

Ok...in order...
No I am not using steves 10,s... I am using Kicker CVR 10's. They are not perfect but can take a pounding and are semi disposable for the cost vs' performance. I have had to modify the cabinet to suit the speaker but in the end have a nice sound. Biggest concern is the dew that forms at the beach stage in the early morning. We had some cone wear I am sure from the dust and wet at previous festivals with paper cones. The cabs are coated in a heavy deck treatment with grippy undercoating and a very dark grey topcoat. These have to survive weather and pound hard for four days straight.

The rear horns are a JBL design http://lunarlab.greenbtn.com/music/pics/jblhorn.jpg that I built many years back.
Here is a lousy webcam pic of the stack with only two Wicked one at the moment....the others are out at a gig still from the weekend...
http://lunarlab.greenbtn.com/music/pics/stack.jpg
They are loaded with really nice RCF 400 watts RMS 15....They are the same woofer used in many classic Yorkville Elite series. I plan to build some newer rear horns soon. One of these not sure which one....simple is better for me
http://lunarlab.greenbtn.com/music/pics/18rcfbin.jpg
But better yet a similar design to the WO for 18's
http://lunarlab.greenbtn.com/music/pics/bandpass18.jpg

I am using a Behringer Super X Pro 2310 pro http://www.behringer.com/CX2310/index.cfm?lang=ENG crossed at under 60 HZ for the low and a mid/high cross at 1.2 Khz 'ish
and a Behringer COMPOSER PRO-XL MDX2600 http://www.behringer.com/MDX2600/index.cfm?lang=ENG

and my Eq, fx and mixer before the mains.
http://lunarlab.greenbtn.com/music/pics/mixer.jpg
http://lunarlab.greenbtn.com/music/pics/eq.jpg

Also some older pics of my studio http://lunarlab.greenbtn.com/gallery/slideshow.php?set_albumName=my-studio

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DirtDawg

Ex Member

Re: large scale wicked one PA
Reply #4 - 11/14/05 at 23:56:38

[quote author=gexter link=1131913650/0#2 date=1132005597]MMMMM MMMMM
Stacks and Stacks of Wicked Ones. [/quote]
I CAN IMAGINE! Nice work!
The interesting about horns used in multiples is that you get something in addition to 3 dB overall increase in output when you double up. You also get a lower response.

16 WOs will give you a much lower full wave horn loading.

Can anyone else imagine a few straight versions of the WO32 stacked on top of 16 WOs to get response on up to 800 or 1200Hz range where a good array of 2" horns can take over easily. Grin

Just a thought.

Thanks for the link, lunarlab. I'll be watching that one, too.

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Braggi

Ex Member

Re: large scale wicked one PA
Reply #5 - 11/15/05 at 15:27:42

Hey Dawg, you've mentioned the idea of "straight WO32s" for midbass a couple of times now, but I'm not sure what you mean. I thought the original WO was the one that could more easily be used for higher frequencies. Wouldn't it make more sense to use the 32s for the subs?

I'm trying to picture 32s with the folds straightened out in a straight horn, but wouldn't that do away some of the magic of the design? Would we still use the double driver design (I imagine so)? Wouldn't that be a pretty long horn for frequencies that high?

I think you'd better build a pair for your garden so you can tell us how it works out. Wink

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DirtDawg

Ex Member

Re: large scale wicked one PA
Reply #6 - 11/15/05 at 17:43:21

[quote author=Braggi link=1131913650/0#5 date=1132068462]Hey Dawg, you've mentioned the idea of "straight WO32s" for midbass a couple of times now, but I'm not sure what you mean. ................ I think you'd better build a pair for your garden so you can tell us how it works out. Wink

[/quote]

It would be a total redisign of the flare, but using 2 - 12" drivers facing into a solid piece creating a throat and ending about the size of a WO outside dimensions I have done before and it kicks A55, from about 100Hz to about 800Hz where beaming is noticeable. My main system was all horn loaded 5-way. The subs and the bass were the same cabinets with different signals, then the mid bass were 100Hz horns, hi mid were 2" short throw with 2" long throws on top crossed any where between 600Hz and 1200Hz depending on the room. Then 1" drivers all a the way up along the insides crossed any where between 1200hz and 4Khz and filling the highs the rest of the way up.

Smaller venues I would leave the subs in the truck, but never those awesome midbass boxes! One of them could keep up with 4 double 15" folded horns.

I usually brought out 2 per side just to make stacking easier and for visual symmetry, but then I would check the amps and the bass was mmaxxxed out and he midbass was hitting 10 watts occasionally. Can you tell I miss the good old days?

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lunarlab

Ex Member

Re: large scale wicked one PA
Reply #7 - 11/15/05 at 18:51:20

[quote author=DirtDawg link=1131913650/0#6 date=1132076601]

It would be a total redisign of the flare, but using 2 - 12" drivers facing into a solid piece creating a throat and ending about the size of a WO outside dimensions I have done before and it kicks A55, from about 100Hz to about 800Hz where beaming is noticeable. My main system was all horn loaded 5-way. The subs and the bass were the same cabinets with different signals, then the mid bass were 100Hz horns, hi mid were 2" short throw with 2" long throws on top crossed any where between 600Hz and 1200Hz depending on the room. Then 1" drivers all a the way up along the insides crossed any where between 1200hz and 4Khz and filling the highs the rest of the way up.

[/quote]

check this for a nice mid high...could be built same size as WO
http://lunarlab.greenbtn.com/music/pics/unityhorn.jpg

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DirtDawg

Ex Member

Re: large scale wicked one PA
Reply #8 - 11/15/05 at 19:58:33

The one with the WO style triangle is very similar to my old midbass cabs, but the triangle was 18" long x 3" at the back. I used an exponential flare and the dual 12s were each sealed in their own chamber. The drivers were almost touching the triangle. I had tried a "hollow" triangle with plywood, but there was too much flex, it had to be solid for it to be rigid under pressure.

MOD:
It took 6 tries to get one that worked like I had hoped at first! They were about 110lbs, too.

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Braggi Ex Member	Re: large scale wicked one PA Reply #9 - 11/16/05 at 03:46:13 Thanks, lunarlab and DirtDawg. That's a lot to work with. Now how about a scaled down version with 6-1/2" drivers? OK, nevermind. :)
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lunarlab Ex Member	Re: large scale wicked one PA Reply #10 - 11/16/05 at 04:12:28 [quote author=Braggi link=1131913650/0#9 date=1132112773]Thanks, lunarlab and DirtDawg. That's a lot to work with. Now how about a scaled down version with 6-1/2" drivers? OK, nevermind. :) [/quote] Hey sure ...I like the sound of six inch for mid....or eight. ???
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Circlomanen

Ex Member

Re: large scale wicked one PA
Reply #11 - 11/16/05 at 09:25:21

Quote:

It would be a total redisign of the flare, but using 2 - 12" drivers facing into a solid piece creating a throat and ending about the size of a WO outside dimensions I have done before and it kicks A55, from about 100Hz to about 800Hz where beaming is noticeable. My main system was all horn loaded 5-way. The subs and the bass were the same cabinets with different signals, then the mid bass were 100Hz horns, hi mid were 2" short throw with 2" long throws on top crossed any where between 600Hz and 1200Hz depending on the room. Then 1" drivers all a the way up along the insides crossed any where between 1200hz and 4Khz and filling the highs the rest of the way up.

Smaller venues I would leave the subs in the truck, but never those awesome midbass boxes! One of them could keep up with 4 double 15" folded horns.

This sounds very nice! Any pics or plans??

Johannes.

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gexter Ex Member	Re: large scale wicked one PA Reply #12 - 11/16/05 at 10:50:39 on the 8" idea PE has some tang subs that are 8 x 12. In a 36 x 36 box you could save inches in the hieght in case you needed the clearance. Just something I was thinking about but never end up doing.
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