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So it turns out that I am delusional (Read 124 times)
Donnie
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So it turns out that I am delusional
Yesterday at 01:35:29
 
So I'm stuck in a world of delusion, and more than likely you are too.
At least according to the Forum members at Audio Science Review.

I have been reading their forums for a while now, just lurking, not commenting at all.

So it turns out that all "Properly Designed" amplifiers should sound the same, as do DAC's or any other digital devices.
Of course vinyl and any form of tape are completely beneath contempt and not worthy of mentioning in any serious discussion.

If you think that anything sounds better or more pleasing, well you are delusional.
It turns out that we only think something sounds better is because we paid too much for it.
Speaking about costs, it turns out that more or less the entire high fidelity industry is some sort of organized syndicate that is only here to take money from all of us gullible suckers.

From what I gather they only listen to test tones in double blind testing, that sounds like a fun night of listening to me!

I've also learned that unless you have a 500 watt Class D amplifier pumping out 110dB, you aren't hearing music as it should be listened.  
It also turns out that Amazon basic cables sound exactly the same as any cables that you have. I must not only be delusional but deaf too.

Anyway, if you can't measure it you sure can't hear it.
Funny thing is that I don't listen to test tones.

Sorry a quick edit from me on this.
I've been able to spend on my system from money I made as an Engineer.
The only Engineering rule that I know is 100% correct is that there are no absolutes in Engineering.
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MM
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Re: So it turns out that I am delusional
Reply #1 - Yesterday at 02:29:44
 
Well yes, I can accept that. I am fairly delusional.

I suppose in a perfect world everything “should” be to my like. Should but not ought. And as far as price goes, diminishing returns are a real thing. I think that’s an exponential curve with price growing exponentially for relatively minor improvements in sound quality.

I have also used test tones to find nulls in bass response. I agree that it’s not fun but the sacrifice is worth the reward once you nail the crossover frequency or room treatment.

In fact, just this weekend I found myself needing to connect my television to my Decware amp because my new streamer doesn’t have digital inputs, and I found an Amazon basics 1/8” headphone to RCA cord in a tote in a box in the garage that did the trick. And I have to admit that more than once during the film I said, “Holy spit, this sounds amazing!”  

The hifi industry may even be an organized syndicate. I certainly can’t rationalize most of it. Especially when some live singer with a beat up $200 Yamaha acoustic guitar can sound better live than my stereo does at home. But hell. I certainly enjoy this vice. And that’s what it’s all about. Bringing all those performances here when I can’t be there.

And yeah, I haven’t heard much of anything aside from ringing since I last heard 110db, and for the most part I prefer to listen to enjoy rather than analyze. But I also suppose that’s why they are there and we are here. Either way, I’m pretty happy with my system. I hope they are too!

Thought provoking topic, Donnie.
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CAJames
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Re: So it turns out that I am delusional
Reply #2 - Yesterday at 02:35:22
 
Quote:
Posted by: Donnie      Posted on: Today at 17:35:29

...Anyway, if you can't measure it you sure can't hear it.
Funny thing is that I don't listen to test tones...


Well, I am a (recovering) physicist and in the early days of the internet I would try to argue with these jackwagons. I would tell them that no one bought a Stradivarius or a Rembrandt or a Château Margaux based on measurements and I wasn't going to buy audio gear based on them either. Surprisingly no one changed her or his mind.  At least I learned a valuable lesson about the internet.



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will
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Re: So it turns out that I am delusional
Reply #3 - Today at 01:01:07
 
Having looked a lot at delusions from a standpoint of years of zen practice, I guess I have a little different view of the definition than dictionaries might. To me delusions are originally products of wanting to act out our desires without having to look too much at the causes and effects of those actions. When we do things that we want to for our own gain, with negative consequences for ourselves, other people, things, ecosystems, etc, seems that action usually needs to be rationalized or denied in order to feel OK about ourselves.

So in the case of individual delusions, we modify fundamental truth just enough to feel less pain from the pain we cause ourselves and others, while the divergence from truth remains close enough to some concept of the truth that the delusion is believable as truth. Delusions become "the truth."

Making it more confusing and complex, the human race, having been working on this for millennia, we are born and cultured into a vast fabric of interrelated and interdependent partial truths posing as, and protected as truths... ultimately making the truth obscure, and even flexible. Then, everything grey, it can all be opinion, or "my truth"  rather than truth, which in turn makes the breadth and depth of overlaid delusions greater, and more confused and destructive.

Still, with consideration, so many "truths" posing as "the truth," "the truth" rarely feels complete or true really. But with long progression, and varying cultural consensus about what is true, confusions not only allow for more variations on the truth from an individual and group perspective... but, as defeating, confusion about reality makes "our truth" more fragile, more difficult to perceive and trust. Finally, as delusions interrelate with reality, subconscious and conscious mistrust of delusions influence our views of reality, usually making our sense of reality not fully trustworthy.

"Out in the wind" we seek something to hold onto, and many of the things we come to desire are not objects, but beliefs, ideas, and doctrines. To feel better, more stable and secure in a world made insecure by delusions, we inadvertently come to "protect" and "defend" delusions as truth... making them part of our identity and giving us something to hold onto, and often worse, something to fight about. What a mess!


In audio measurement context, with our standard, relatively incomplete tools, if we take them as more than pointers, as absolute, I think we are agreeing to deny the complexity of what makes music in a room interact as completely as possible with our body/mind/consciousness... with our musical sensibilities. For my own path, me, I have always avoided measurements, in part because they tend to be incomplete; in part because, for so many, interpretation of them tends to be incomplete while acting complete, limiting potential to take things further more quickly; and related, concern about becoming dependent on them as part of a cultured belief system that is only partially true (delusional if interpreted as absolute).

In my experience, exploring lots of really nice gear and cables that have been measured, and consistently and progressively finding ways to adjust them for a more complete and realistic musical experience.... I guess part of what has kept me off measurements was concern that they might influence and limit my seemingly ever-refining perception and discernment. To me, I get that measurements can be quite useful as pointers, as steps on the way to a potentially great musical experience. But I can't help thinking that refined perception and discernment are potentially our most powerful tools for helping us find countless nuanced qualities of time and sound that are needed to shape a more complete musical experience.

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Re: So it turns out that I am delusional
Reply #4 - Today at 01:24:36
 
Very well-articulated Will. We're in a point in time when truth and reality are hard to effectively define, experience and maintain in important ways.

Donnie, I found that many of the denizens of that board (and elsewhere) are unaware that they have embraced an expectation bias that they accuse others of. Just as they lament that many believe that cables, amps etc. differ in sound and so "experience" the differences, they are already convinced that these differences don't really exist, so they don't hear them. . . .
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