I recently purchased an Ecoflow Delta Three Max Portable Power Station for power outages and emergencies. About a week ago, I became curious how my system would sound if I powered my system from the power station. Since I have everything powered downstream from my SnubStation Zero, I simply unplugged the power from the wall and plugged in from the power station. I had no idea how it would sound but I wanted to find out. I listened for several days with a large variety of music. I’ve been trying since to conceptualize what I heard.  

The changes I hear seemed to be centered around density and greater detail, likely due to the elimination of power related noise. The one thing that was completely unexpected was the increase in the weight of the bass. I wasn’t even aware my amp could have such powerful bass. Detail, that was once masked or blurred by noise, is easily heard in a sound space with solid and harmonically rich voices and instruments. I can now hear/feel the full weight of an orchestra. The highs are sweet, extended and without any discernable edge. In my system, this greater density and detail results in a richer harmonic balance that can be quite subtle.

I took the next step and plugged the power station into the wall. I wanted to see if what I was hearing would still be evident with the power station plugged in, i.e. being able to have these changes without concern for draining the battery. It also passed that hearing test. At this point I was considering incorporating this power station into my system. However, the power station is big and weighs around 45 pounds. It would be awkward to incorporate.
I then decided to order a smaller version that would be more manageable, specifically the EcoFlow RIVER 2 Max. It is smaller and only weighs 13 pounds. After I received it and charged the battery, I also listened to it with the power station unplugged and plugged into the wall. The sound remained consistent, plugged or unplugged in the wall.
The only potential drawback is the smaller unit has a fan that comes on often. I installed the power station in a cabinet with only the back open to the air. I cannot hear the fan in the cabinet.

I have incorporated this power station into my system.

On a side note, the power station app displays the amount of power used real time. Between my Holo Audio May and my SE84UFO amp, my power draw only required between 107 to 114 watts.

Hi guys,
MM, I followed your thread with interest. It actually got me to research those Ecolab generators. I have not pulled the trigger yet. Plan on using it for emergency power and maybe audio systems power. What unit did you get? Sorry if you already mentioned it in your thread.
ArtMan it seems you found out what an unwavering power source can do to bass reproduction. It seems Decware amps(maybe fleawatt SE tube amps in general) really shine with local on the spot power without long running wires. I attribute my cap banks do much of the same. Going to check out your units.
Thanks

Guys,

I’ve been following this, and MM’s threads about using a Battery power station, closely.

I have a couple questions:

1) Were y’all using a power conditioner before trying the power station?

2) I am using one of Decwares power conditioners. I don’t really feel a need to change anything, but if I wanted to try an EcoFlow, can I simply plug it directly into the wall and plug the Decware conditioner into it?

Edit: Also, what sources have y’all tried this with? Just curious if positive results might be achieved with both digital and analog sources?


Thanks, Geno

Geno,

I was using several of the Veri-Fi products as well as the Snubstation Zero prior to using the power plant. Upon my listening, they were still in the chain. Yesterday, I took out all of those except for the Snubstation. It sounded better, small but I can now hear even deeper into the detail. In this case, specifically very quiet passages of music. Usually when I say remove noise, I really mean detail that was blurred or sounding less real clear comparatively, rather than noise I could hear.

The Veri-Fi products from before were helpful with power from the wall but impart a relatively tiny amount of noise themselves, noticeable via the power station and only after removing them. This weekend I will test running it w/o the Snubstation in the chain.

FYI, if you are thinking about getting a power station, the smaller one I have in my system does have a fan that can be heard when running, not loud but it is there. However, when I put it into my cabinet, I cannot hear it at all. It would have been harder to want to use if it otherwise. But if in doubt, the larger Delta Max 3, if I ferry out the documentation correctly has a very quiet cooling system. I never heard any fan sound from it at all, even in a quiet room.  

I have heard both of mine unplugged or plugged into the wall, I cannot hear a difference between the two.  

Have you guys considered PS Audio's regenerators. I have a PS-12 and couldn't be happier.

I saw the Delta Max 3 is rated at 25db. Pretty damn quiet. Other ones between 30 and 40db.
It seems that Ecolab really did their research in providing clean sine wave AC and their units have a generous surge capacity. Also like the fact this seems to carry on all units from the EcoFlow RIVER 2 Max models on up.
Thinking of going with the river model just for an audio accessory and light duty in a power outage. I have plenty of passive heat and really don't load the fridge and freezer during warmer months.
Have a 100 foot 10 gauge 4 conductor SO cable and 6 circuit manual transfer switch left over from the motorhome. Had it set up to run the houe in case of an outage. Only used it for one hour in 22 years!

That's so interesting because what you hear removing the Snubstation Zero is about what I hear adding those that I have (and the two Line Noise Black Holes). I guess that would be the difference between battery power you are feeding and my directly from the wall to the Verafi components (and there are three SDFB after the two Snub Station Zeros, one to my DAC on the digital Zero branch and one to both the SEWE300B and the ZROCK3).

Anyway I'm not removing my Snub Station Zeros. I just plugged in the Dynagrid Jr. . . another sonic element to evaluate.

Funny Doug,

I mentioned how I replaced all appliances in the house including the HVAC before retirement in another thread a couple days ago and had to replace the dishwasher and frig already within 6 years of retirement. That same morning of that post my wife came down as I was spinning and said, "The furnace is not working it is 65 degrees in the house ". Ouch! Turned out the power exhaust vent sensor got stuck. A simple tap fixed it and a new one will be ordered for stock.  

I did some investigation with the audio system power demands. Plugging in a Kill A Watt meter into the dedicated circuit at the outlet the whole system below only pulled between 163-174 watts(1.49 amps). Everything had power except turntable motor and RtoR. CD player was playing bass heavy material and the SE84UFO25th just about clipping. Turning the system on it initially pulled 2.5 amps when the 2 SDFBs kicked in. The CXNv2, Stoke's DAC(not fused), and CD player are not using SDFB. Not sure how accurate the meter is but most likely in the ball park.

I'm favoring the River Flow Max. It can be noisy at 62db. Thinking that is at full demand with X boost. 1/3 demand hopefully would take the db level down to a more reasonable level as ArtMan suggest. I really like the inverter side of the EcoFlow just not to sure about longevity. My experience with inverters over the years is robustness. Out of 7 owned, 5 failed, one went with the motorhome, and one small 300 watt one is at camp. One more small note is the company seems to be lax on customer service and warranty service-opposite of Decware. I might try to find a retailer that will back the product and deal with EcoFlow in the event of failure.

Hope your power has returned.

Lon good to hear you got the DynaGrid!

Update: I found Sam's Club with a River 2 Max. A bit more then the Chinese retailers but an unbeatable return period.
Second update: R2Max on its way.

"Who knew that a clean power supply could do this?

Where you been? I've known this for years.

My response was pretty tongue in cheek as well. I'm glad you have found your solution. I'm enjoying my situation quite a bit. I might try battery power again one day. My experience in another's system wasn't that inspiring years ago. I know things have changed.

$500 is relatively cheap to experiment with this, so I ordered an EcoFlow unit last night. If I don’t hear a difference, I can always return it. Or, just keep it in case of emergency outages.

I guess I should give it a full charge, before putting it in the audio system?

Did y’all say that you can leave the unit plugged into the wall all the time? Or is it better to let it periodically cycle down?

I ordered the Delta 3 Classic. It was $499 at Home Depot.

I did charge up my power stations prior to use. I even used the Delta 3 Max during a power outage the same day I received it. I am considering plugging my Delta 3 Max into the wall permanently so it would be fully charged when the next outage occurs. On my EcoFlow RIVER 2, I've reduced the charging amount just to see if it made any difference in the sound. I could not detect any.

Geno,
The Delta 3 Classic would probably be the one I would choose if my cabinet didn't make the fan noise unproblematic. I originally bought the Delta 3 Max because it had a 2 kw battery capacity. I never thought about trying it on my stereo until about a week later.

JBzen,
Conceptually, the bass has me puzzled in both the weight and resolution I'm hearing. I was listening to a Bach organ piece yesterday. For having speakers that only go down to about 50 Hz, it was the most realistic sounding organ I've ever head on a stereo. I am fully satisfied with my bass.

I'm looking forward to hearing everyone's listening impressions. I hope it gives you all the joy I've been having listening to my stereo.

I've started comparing different EcoFlow models. I'm currently splitting time between two houses, once the school year is over we'll be putting the old house up for sale. My system is still here at the old place on a dedicated circuit and I've been satisfied with the power here. Before reading about these I've been tossing and turning at night trying to figure out where the system will settle at the new place and brainstorming ideas of how to get a dedicated line to the space. Seems to me I can skip that whole drilling holes and fishing wire chore. I've already had to run a HDMI cable down through a wall across the garage and back up another wall for the family room with in wall/ceiling speakers. That took multiple days to accomplish a little at a time. Drill a hole, run an endoscope camera in the cavity, measure twice drill three times, fish a magnet...#^$%!!! It was either do a long HDMI or rerun all the speaker wires which are STAPLED to joists and studs. In any event, the EcoFlow should allow me to setup anywhere and if I need to move around the room or move to a different room it's all done easily.

I've wondered though about power cables, for those of you who have one of these units have you experimented with swapping out fancy power cords with generic cables? If so, any difference? It's more just a curiosity, I already have cables I like.

I'm pretty sold on the idea, just trying to narrow down if I want something simple to just do audio or spring for a bigger unit that has the ability to run more things in an outage.

Edit:

The EcoFlow River 2 Max arrived late yesterday afternoon. It powered the system after less then a hour charge from 29%. It took a while for the cooling fan to come on but cycled on and off after that until the charge was completed.
After the charge completed, it was plugged in one of the recepticals in the duplex outlet of the 9 gauge home run feed with the R2Max supplying its output to the balanced transformer that inturn powers all the audio system. The other receptical is used for the capacitor bank and bobc's ZKit hard wired sub amps.
I put Dead Can Dance in and sat in the sweet spot. The sound was edgy and bass sloppy. The system was cold so it was given 20 minutes to warm up. On return the sound was less edgy and bass slow and flabby. I tried pulling the Snubway and Mainstream which seem to make no difference. The R2Max was pulled and put thru other earmarked uses and passed in flying colors. It powered the audio system(139 watts) for 30 minutes, refrigerator(82 watts) for 3 hours, and freezer (102watts) for 15 minutes with 68% charge remaining. Also tried the wife's TV(80 watts) for a few minutes. A 220 watt solar panel should keep us in power indefinitely with powering essentials. All be it it will require my attention and loss of bragging rites in a long term outage. Soooooo what!
Back to the audio system. I am in no way done with use of the cheap regenerator in the Chariot. I think that leaving the cap banks and bobc's amps out of the R2Max's loop proves that 60 cycle ac power plays a strong role in music output. Of course we all here know that.
Mixing two distinctly different power sources destroyed a very good audio systems sound. The plan is to tie it all together down the road. Right now I got some ZSTYX to make, install and burn in.
After I posted the above our power when out for a second or two. We are experiencing high wind gusts here in western Pennsylvania. This prompted me to charge the R2Max that seem to have lost 6% charge overnight while shut off and unplugged.
So it started to charge at 62% with 25 minute estimation time until 100%. I've noticed that the display is not linear and values can be accelerated or be stationary until the charge is at 100%. ie display showed 1 minute to charge and 77% charge at the same time. It was completely charged over a 30 minute time span though. In other words, it is wonky!
Anybody's unit exhibiting the same as above?

Quote:


It seems obvious, but feel like how much a regenerator will improve your sound starts with how bad your power is at the wall. Of course the thousand dollar question is how bad is it? I don't know any way to measure that.

Below is the recipe followed for cap banks in the Charoit. It is from the original founder of Magnan audio cables. I think he sold the company years ago. This article was referred by Jon Risch's geocities site if memory serves me correct.

I have 10 banks of AC to neutral and 6 banks of neutral to ground. Served me well for the last 25 years.

Thanks JB. This is pretty easy.  I wonder if this is essentially what all the plug in power cleaners are? I searched Jon Risch and also found a lot of other information online.

So stoked to hear that, Geno!

Awesome Geno! Keep on reporting what you hear.

That's great Geno! Super cool that a relatively inexpensive and simple fix can have that kind of (positive) impact on your sound. Of course the scientist in me wonders what the EcoFlow is doing that the ZLC isn't, but that's not a problem I'm going to solve.

Thanks again guys! Loving the results.

The unit shows 233 watts input. I have about 4 hours of listening time with it, and have yet to hear the fan come on.

I plan to keep it plugged in to the wall, so not sure how that affects the need for the fan.

I have a question though? Last night, I experimented to see how it would sound running on its own, unplugged from the wall. I first turned it off, then unplugged it. Like I stated earlier, the ZLC is plugged into it, and when I powered the EcoFlow back on, the ZLC makes a fairly loud humming/buzzing noise. I’m guessing 50db. This with all ZLC front switches off, and just power to the back. I did not try turning any of the switches on. Any ideas about this?

Sounds reasonable. Why is it completely silent when plugged into the wall, but made the noise, with the power station running on its own?

I’m still in the process of reading through the manual, and making sure that I understand the different settings.

I have not tried it again, running on its own. I’ve been too busy listening to music

My advice to everyone is to order one of these - immediately. If it does not make a resounding difference (I’m betting that it will), either just keep it as an emergency back up, or simply return it. It is worth the risk.

This is the unit (Delta 3 Classic) shown for scale. I had envisioned it, placed up next to the rack like a PC, but the cord setup works better like this. Miles is so happy with it, that he decided to blow his horn. A while ago, he was dancing too, but that was a little spooky…

I would think the Delta 3 Classic is the sweet spot for this. It would not have the same fan noise issue as the River 2 Max.