I hope this post finds everyone well.  

Thank you in advance, I was hoping for a little guidance.  When I first ordered my Decware amp I chose the Zen Mystery amp.  My system has changed significantly since then and I now think that either the SE84UFO25 or Sarah 300b would be more suited to my system.

On a Decware amp, I’d mainly be listening to vocal jazz at low to moderate volumes, either streamed or from my turntable.  I purchased a cheap Chinese 3W amp to test and the volume this produced at 60% maximum volume from my preamp was more than adequate, so the power of either of these shouldn’t be an issue.  So mainly it would be the voicing of the two amps.  Living in Australia, I haven’t had the opportunity to listen to any Decware products.

I know it’s an impossible question, but I’m just wondering which would be better for vocal jazz.  The system is an Antipodes Oladra into a T+A DAC 200 into a solid state preamp and driving quite sensitive custom open baffle speakers.

Thanks!

I'm a huge jazz fan, instrumental and vocal. I had SE84UFO3 Monoblocks with all the mods for five years, then moved to the SEWE300B. I don't think you would go wrong with EITHER amp if your speakers can handle the lower wattage of the SEUFO25. My speakers could (HR-1) BUT the SEWE300B drives them with a sense of ease and authority I could not imagine before. And with the SEWE300B after a spell I realized my sound was better WITHOUT a preamp and I was able to remove a fully modded CSP3 from the system and have even better sound.

I'm no help in comparison to the Mystery Amp--I have never heard one, I never wanted an amp with that much power--plus I had Torii Mk IIIs for years, and found that I hankered for and preferred the SET sound to the push-pull.

I agree that not one amp is better for one type of music in general. . . but if one were wanting to blast party level rock, funk, etc. then the Mystery Amp is a better choice. But for vocal jazz, he can't go wrong with either the 25 or the SEWE300B, imo.

There is certainly no denying there is inherent hum in ANY 300B amp. But . . . I've had hum in other Decware systems of my past. . . after about 28 years of it I don't let it bother me. With any of the tubes I've used in the SEWE300B amp I've never had a hum that I couldn't mitigate by gain settings etc. that was audible at the listening seat and in that respect it was no more "misbehaving" than UFO and Taboo and Torii amps I've had. And the sonics of the SEWE300B has been the pinnacle for me--this is an amp that I can futz with with real enjoyment and sound I can sink back and be enveloped in for hours and hours on end.

The Monoblocks I could as well. . . I just futzed with them less. Exploring/futzing has become a real satisfying past time for me. Futzing has led me to two great output tube choices, and to discovering how much beauty there is in mixing rectifiers with each.

Interesting—Not discounting Steve’s acknowledgment but after 1.5 yrs of owning Sarah—can’t say I have a hum issue at the listening position. In fact, the amp has never sounded quieter, especially as of late.

Welcome. Like Tony and Lon, I have both. I think the speakers would be the deciding factor for you. If you are in love with your current speakers you may want to consider the UFO. People that are bothered by Sarah’s hum tend to have higher efficiency speakers (>upper 90’s), myself included. Especially since you like vocal and solo instruments, you may find the hum in quiet passages too much. Also if you have a room mode in the same frequency as the hum, which is common, it will amplifiy it. You can do a lot of fiddling and tweaking to reduce it, but highly sensitive speakers will always reproduce it.  

Likewise, with highly sensitive speakers the 2 watts of the UFO will be more than enough, and you will save a lot over your relationship with your amp in terms of tube costs.

Another consideration is the Sarah has a little more oomph in her and can drive the lower frequencies of your open baffles a little harder. I had to adjust my sub crossover much lower with Sarah, and only when I am really critically listening do I even feel compelled to turn my subs on. Most of the time the single driver in open baffle is enough, whereas with the 25 they were switched on with every power up. Some is the power of the amp, some is the tube choices, and some is the inherent sound of the circuit.

Sarah certainly can be captivating but you may have to work for it. Like many have said here, both are great amps and it is a personal decision how much you are willing to chase the sound and modify your system to accommodate.

Can’t agree with you more what a great community we have here.

Like others have said… You cannot go wrong with either amp. Since both amplifiers are a SET topology, it seems like you have narrowed your decision on that vs Push Pull.  I own both types… And I have to say that I do favor the SET sound.  

I would definitely considerer the operating costs of owning either of these amplifiers.  The replacement cost of the 300B tube set will be higher, even if you do not buy the expensive Western Electric tubes.  Also…the Sarah has a preamp built in, so if you are not planning to buy a separate preamp then there is a savings cost.  

Dom

Firstly, I cannot foresee you being disappointed by either. Honestly they are different from each other, I do not actually consider one better than the other.  Both are amazing. My natural inclination is to default to the one with more power, as it is a limiting factor for speakers sometimes, but SPL or "power" is not even really part of the game at this level. Dynamics and resolution on a background of velvety quietness flips my switch every time.

I imagine that to really hear THE major differences between the amps you may need a properly treated listening space. If that is your endgame, maybe cut to the chase and order a Sarah for Cool Points, but if you are putting your amp in a multi-use space or less than perfect listening area are you going to get that "extra" little bit. The UFO's are amazing, moreso even the Anniversary Edition. Either one will serve you well the rest of your life.

For all those debating whether or not hum is audible with the SEWE300B amp -- this comes mostly down to the efficiency of your speakers. The more efficient they are, the more audible the hum will be at listening position, period. If your speakers are mid-90s efficiency, you will be very unlikely to notice any hum at listening position (but will notice a little bit if you listen very nearfield). Get around 100 efficiency, you probably will hear hum at normal listening position. Go up to something like 105 dB, then the hum is absolutely present everywhere in the room and some people might not be able to stand it at all.

I've found so far that I get the same amount of hum from two different SEWE300B amps I've owned from new, across three different tube sets tested on each amp (two stock Decware sets with WE300B, one full cryotone set). Also tested on different speakers in different rooms.

I don’t have my Sarah yet—another 16 months to go, I think—but I do have an SE84UFO25 and a ZMA sitting side by side in the same system, with highly efficient Zu speakers.  I absolutely love my ZMA, but once I plugged in the UFO25, I found that it was always my preference between the two.

I had the same experience when I compared the UFO25 with the Torii Mk V into a pair of HR v2, which are 92dB. (And, again, I really love the Torii, it’s just that the UFO25 was markedly better.)

As others have said, you can’t go wrong with any of these amps, but as between the UFO25 and the ZMA, I’d recommend the former if your speakers are at least 90dB.

That said, I’m on the list for the Sarah because orders for it finally opened a few weeks after my UFO25 went into production. So between those two, either one is likely a very safe bet.

Best,

Carroll

I would go for the SE84UFO25 if you like your efficient speakers.

You get tube regulation on input and output with lots of NOS tube choices. The other tubes are relatively cheap as well. You can have a good supply of spares without worrying about the cost of the 300B tubes.

The SE84UFO25 costs less.