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06/16/24 at 01:12:55 




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Not so frikin fast! (Read 261 times)
Steve Deckert
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Not so frikin fast!
05/20/24 at 03:06:31
 





So I have recently come to the realization that we ALL need two tonearms set up on the table.  As you know I have been having cartridge wars on my table with two tone arms.  Trying to get each one set up so perfectly it will outshine the other.   This has been a fascinating journey so far but something has been happening that changed everything.

It is not uncommon to listen to a record with both tonearms, first one then the other because it is two different perspectives and it makes it twice as interesting.  Naturally you will choose the better sounding of the two unless it is a tie which it sometimes certainly is.

This is the tool I was using to perfect the setup of the tonearms to the 9th degree.  Pitting one against the other and listening.  The arm that has so much potential to rule or fail is the AudioCraft arm, which is ultra complicated.

I want to get both dialed in so tight that it becomes hard to pick between them, or perhaps one just dominates all the time.  

So when you are getting real about tonearm/cartridge pairings and setup, you realize there are quite a few different curves that favor different types of pressings and types of music.  You have to pick one.  If you listen to pressing or music that are not ideal for that curve, well, it just won't sound as good as it could have.

I am convinced that the vintage London Gold DECA and my Fidelity Research FR7f are evenly matched.  So this isn't nearly as much "cartridge" wars as it is tonearm and setup wars.

Here is what was happening.  I would listen to one arm and then the other and on that evening some or all of the pressings seemed to really favor a particular arm, so I assumed someone or myself bumped the lesser sounding arm out of alignment and proceeded to F with it needlessly because it was still perfect, but you can leave it how it was, you have to change something, so you do and now it is not perfect.  

I have been doing this back and forth for 6 months.... "Perfecting my setup" which in actuality means loosing it and then re finding it again.

BIG REALIZATION

I changed my methodology once I was convinced the tonearms were setup perfectly and measured perfectly because I lost and found it at least 10 times for each arm.  Well 5 times for the FR and 15 times for the AC.

This new approach involves simply listening to the first (or any) track with each tonearm/cartridge and choosing the winner.  Then listening to the rest of the album with that combo.

Now when this first started, I became disappointed in the looser and looked for something to blame it on.  Tonight I almost purchased more tonearm cables to try as if the 5 pair I have isn't enough.

The most recent was on Tuesday night during our listening session where we usually only spin vinyl.  I don't even remember the album, but it should have sounded great and I put the Fidelity Research on which has been winning the wars more that month and it sounded like crap.  Like what we so often call a "bad pressing" and I found it just barely listenable.  Kind of like ice tea from a drive thru that is just barely drinkable.

We played the first track and then switched to the DECCA / Audio Control combo and it was a holy crap moment.  Not even close.  Turns out the LP was in fact glorious sounding after all.  I have had that record for 15 years and never liked it, but tonight It was melting everyones brain.

OK, so now I slip a private listening session in just for myself and of course start with the DECCA.  I was listening to a new pressing I just purchased and it sounded too smooth, a bit rolled, just wasn't terribly good transparency wise or sound stage for that matter.  Good, but not great.

I listened to the whole side, and it never got better.  Changed to the FR7f and it was the exact same holy crap moment we had on Tuesday night but in reverse.  Now the FR7f just killed the DECCA.  Or let me be way more accurate than that... the FR64FX tonearm and how I have it set up and the particular curve, vs. the Audio Craft AC3000 with it's own setup and different curve...

So this is it, there is not going to probably be a single cartridge and tonearm that will sound perfect on every pressing, new and old.  You need two arms.  So if you haven't purchased a table yet, that is what I would look for.  Something that can mount up two tone arms.  And BTW even if you attempted to set up both arms exactly to the same curve it wouldn't matter because there are so many other variables at play including the fact that you can't probably set up two arms exactly the same.  Most people don't have the high dollar setup tools to accomplish it despite their skill level.

I have been very slowly having this realization since I built my new table, and finding that most of the records I didn't care for the sound quality on were and are actually great, you just have to find the right way to tickle it.

So the title, not so frikin fast comes from the urge to dick with your tonearm settings because you don't like the sound of a particular run of LPs.
You don't want to jack with it once you have verified it is perfect unless you can measure a change.  If the sound isn't ideal, it's the curve and the pressing compatibility that is causing it.











Steve
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Kahuna Jack
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Re: Not so frikin fast!
Reply #1 - 05/22/24 at 18:47:55
 
You used 2 different woods for your tonearm boards . Cosmetic reasons ? or for vibration control .  

Have you experimented with different materials in your tonearm board builds??? This vinyl part of the hobby like science is never ending .

Thanks for the insight into fine tuning a vinyl rig.

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Steve Deckert
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If the 1st watt
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Re: Not so frikin fast!
Reply #2 - 05/22/24 at 20:58:51
 

I have found that the arm boards have a big effect on the sound.  They are led filled, the longer one uses two different woods each with a different density.

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red pill sanctuary
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Re: Not so frikin fast!
Reply #3 - 05/24/24 at 23:33:49
 
Your discovery is fascinating. Just goes to show how deep the rabbit hole goes!

Have you ever considered a linear tangential air bearing setup? I would love to hear your findings on that one.   This design does seem to make sense logically.  Now in real world settings, that mileage may vary.
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