Welcome, Guest. Please Login or Register
Decware Audio Forums
04/29/24 at 12:10:56 




Pages: 1
Send Topic Print
DC Conditioning Tale (Read 2603 times)
Doug
Seasoned Member
****




Posts: 274
DC Conditioning Tale
08/03/23 at 05:44:26
 
Several years ago I purchased an Emotiva CMX-2 DC Offset Elimination device with the goal of quieting my very loudly humming Tori Jr.  The amp’s transformers were so loud that I could hear them from 10 feet away.  There was also loud humming coming through the speakers.  I was fortunate to see both areas of humming significantly reduced with the Jr plugged into the CMX-2. Evidently we had a problem with DC on our AC lines, and there was no issue with the amp.

Shortly after buying the $139 Emotiva CMX-2, I sold the Torii Jr in order to take a different system direction.  The CMX-2 has been sitting on the sidelines for a couple of years now even though all of my tube pieces have been causing some hum through my speakers and have had varying levels of humming transformers.

Fast forward to a week ago…….I was reading an article about Vibex DC conditioning products and was so impressed with their claims that I decided to re-insert my CMX-2 DC Offset Eliminator and plug in the CSP3 and the ZROCK2… you know, just for kicks. The result was quite surprising and immediate, with nearly all humming gone, the system taking on a much blacker background, and a very noticeable higher level of resolution.

The Vibex folks were so convincing in their argument supporting DC conditioning that I decided to order two additional Emotiva CMX-2 units.  I went to the Emotiva website and was shocked and pleased to see that they had lowered the price to $82!  The two units arrived yesterday morning and I headed straight to the listening room to insert them.  Now, every piece in my system is receiving AC power via Emotiva CMX-2 DC Offset Eliminators.  

Soooooo…….how does the system sound with the Emotiva units in place?  The improvements are so remarkable that I’m close to saying that these three inexpensive devices have led to the most significant sound quality improvement I have ever heard with a change in equipment.  I am so very happy with the results of this little experiment that I just had to share.  

If you have humming in any part of your system, or even if you don’t have humming issues, I definitely recommend trying one or more Emotiva CMX-2 units.  With Emotiva’s complete satisfaction 30 day money back guarantee, why not give it a shot?  And if you have a large audio budget, why not go with one of the much pricier Vibex units and plug all of your equipment into it and be done with it?  I know this sounds crazy, but I’ve been in this audiophile game since 1971 and there is no mistaking what these little devices have done to the sound quality of my system.  Very, very, very impressive!  I’m done now.
Back to top
 
 

Jay’s CD2T-Mk3
Denafrips Pontus II
ZROCK2 25th Mods
CSP3 25th & Custom Mods
PAP Quintets with Voxativ 1.6
First Watt J2 or Cary 300SEI
driving Voxativs—no crossover
LFD NCSE driving 15” Woofers
  IP Logged
Tony
Seasoned Member
****


"Life without
..music is
inconceivable"
A.Einsteln

Posts: 627
Re: DC Conditioning Tale
Reply #1 - 08/03/23 at 06:43:33
 
Doug,

Thanks for the review.  I have made progress with one of my systems,  but your evaluation was so encouraging, I put in an order.  I will let you know results. If it adds nothing, I can return it.  On the other hand, if it could help with the minor hum still there, I'd be delighted.

Tony
Back to top
 
 

SE84UFO25 | Ic0n4 Passive Preamp | ZBIT | Cambr. CXNv2 | Denafrips Pontus II | Denafrips Gaia | Decware I/Cs | Decware Pwr Cbls | ZWIRE Speaker Cbls | Omega SAHOM & KEF KC62 | Furman Cond l GIK Room Trmt
  IP Logged
will
Seasoned Member
****




Posts: 2926
Re: DC Conditioning Tale
Reply #2 - 08/03/23 at 15:12:37
 
Thanks Doug for sharing your experience.  Interesting for sure.... and no downsides for you? No dynamic loss, bass loss, textural loss, air.... etc?
Back to top
 
 

All Modified: PSA-P5>DIY Strip/Shunyata Defender>RevolutionMacMini/Amarra-KTE Singxer/Gustardx20pro/ZBIT/CSP3>OldChen 300B/845, Torii IV>Omega S-A-H-O monitors/SVS Micro3000>Pi PCs-DIY PCs, ICs, USB, I2S, Speaker-SR and aluminum w ball bearing feet
  IP Logged
Lon
Seasoned Member
****


"Love without
guts is
worthless!"
Philip K. Dick

Posts: 23544
Re: DC Conditioning Tale
Reply #3 - 08/03/23 at 15:59:21
 
I tried this product and sold it soon afterwards. I really didn't have an issue it corrected, and I found it impacted sound quality in not a nice way.
Back to top
 
 

HR-1,ZBIT,ZROCK2,SEWE300B,CSP3-25mod; Rega RP3 all GrooveTracer mods;PSAudio:PST+DSD, DAC Mk II, P15,NPC,PowerBases,AC-12 pwr cbls, Reference spkrcbls; Mapleshade SamsonV3; VooDoo:Cremona+Amati interconnects, IsoPods; headphones: Sennheiser HD800S,ZMF Ori,Oppo PM1
  IP Logged
Doug
Seasoned Member
****




Posts: 274
Re: DC Conditioning Tale
Reply #4 - 08/03/23 at 19:59:11
 
Hey Will,

No, in fact, all of the things you mentioned have greatly improved.  My conclusion is that our incoming AC must have some serious DC content.  There seems to be no other explanation for this huge shift in sound quality.

My entire system seems to have taken a deep breath and gone into relaxed state where all struggles have disappeared. Resolution has jumped up many notches.  Bass detail, which was already quite good, is now off-the-charts good. Textural and timbral accuracy has taken a huge leap forward.  The sound stage, which was already very deep and wide, has increased in size and it is now saturated with air and warmth that I’ve never before experienced.  Front stage to back stage incremental layering has become far more clear.  Vocalists have taken on increased size and sound more real than ever.  Dynamics were previously very impressive, but now they are even better.  Cymbals, violins, snare drums, and other high frequency instruments are now presented with far more resolution and air, but also with greatly increased smoothness, warmth, effortlessness and ease.  These improvements remind me of what occurred when I replaced my OPPO 205 universal player with a Jay’s Audio CD transport and a Denafrips Pontus  DAC, but on a grander scale.  

Oh, I almost forgot to mention that the large toroidal transformers in my CD transport and two power amps no longer turn on with a loud roar.  When I hit the on switches now, all three pieces turn on silently, where before it was as if they were all stressing out and groaning over being asked to start making music.

And again, I can’t see any reasonable explanation for all of this outside of our AC being significantly compromised with harmful DC components.  With clean AC, every piece of equipment in the system seems to be thriving.  It feels like they’ve been healed from a horrible disease and are now free to live peaceful, happy, unhindered, productive lives.
Back to top
 
 

Jay’s CD2T-Mk3
Denafrips Pontus II
ZROCK2 25th Mods
CSP3 25th & Custom Mods
PAP Quintets with Voxativ 1.6
First Watt J2 or Cary 300SEI
driving Voxativs—no crossover
LFD NCSE driving 15” Woofers
  IP Logged
will
Seasoned Member
****




Posts: 2926
Re: DC Conditioning Tale
Reply #5 - 08/03/23 at 20:31:03
 
Thanks for this informative explanation Doug. I thought before it sounded like all positives for you but wanted to be sure. Sounds like you have some bizarre stuff in your power....  one reason, it is amazing how much this little filter unit improved what sounded like a lot of power induced distortions and smearing... and the other, the "roaring" of your transport and amp transformers! That the Emotiva miraculously resolved all this... brilliant.

Based on Lon's impression when he tried one, apparently not needing it to do what it did for you, it makes me wonder if they have improved their design, or... wondering if your power were not so contrary, if you would love it. Whatever, it is good to know how good it was for your needs.... sounds like it made your system like it was meant to be!

I know the more I explore power, outside gear and inside, the more I realize it is as important as anything else, and needs synergy like anything else to be optimal.... Also seems like we can give it a lot of careful attention optimizing sound in mind, and still find ways to improve it.
Back to top
 
 

All Modified: PSA-P5>DIY Strip/Shunyata Defender>RevolutionMacMini/Amarra-KTE Singxer/Gustardx20pro/ZBIT/CSP3>OldChen 300B/845, Torii IV>Omega S-A-H-O monitors/SVS Micro3000>Pi PCs-DIY PCs, ICs, USB, I2S, Speaker-SR and aluminum w ball bearing feet
  IP Logged
Ghostship
Seasoned Member
****




Posts: 155
Re: DC Conditioning Tale
Reply #6 - 08/04/23 at 09:55:48
 
I use the Emotiva CMX-2 as well with great results. However, when I received my Sarah I plugged it directly into the mains outlet. I am going to experiment this weekend and plug it into the CMX-2 instead to see if there is an improvement or reduction in sound quality. Thanks for reminding me.
Back to top
 
 

Paul Pang Quad Network Switch & Fiber
MSB Premier DAC
Zen Sarah SEWE300B
Cryotone Bundle
Tekton 2-12 Perfect SET Speakers w/ BE Tweeters and Cap & Wiring upgrades
Tekton 2-10 Sub
  IP Logged
Doug
Seasoned Member
****




Posts: 274
Re: DC Conditioning Tale
Reply #7 - 08/04/23 at 14:17:22
 
I’m going to re-insert my 300B amp today to see how it responds to power from the Emotiva unit.  For two years it has always been plugged directly into the wall socket.  I’ll also report back with results.
Back to top
 
 

Jay’s CD2T-Mk3
Denafrips Pontus II
ZROCK2 25th Mods
CSP3 25th & Custom Mods
PAP Quintets with Voxativ 1.6
First Watt J2 or Cary 300SEI
driving Voxativs—no crossover
LFD NCSE driving 15” Woofers
  IP Logged
will
Seasoned Member
****




Posts: 2926
Re: DC Conditioning Tale
Reply #8 - 08/04/23 at 15:42:04
 
Cool. Two tests.... I look forward to your results!

How would you characterize your power from the wall Ghostship?
Back to top
 
 

All Modified: PSA-P5>DIY Strip/Shunyata Defender>RevolutionMacMini/Amarra-KTE Singxer/Gustardx20pro/ZBIT/CSP3>OldChen 300B/845, Torii IV>Omega S-A-H-O monitors/SVS Micro3000>Pi PCs-DIY PCs, ICs, USB, I2S, Speaker-SR and aluminum w ball bearing feet
  IP Logged
Ghostship
Seasoned Member
****




Posts: 155
Re: DC Conditioning Tale
Reply #9 - 08/04/23 at 15:54:49
 
Well, it's hard to say. I'm in a small apartment building where each unit has its own electrical panel. So, the power is not as pristine as if I were in a home with a (relatively) isolated panel, but, I also don't have overly noticeable DC on my mains, either.

That being said, the CMX-2 did give me improved sq and a blacker background/lower noise floor. Just how much of an improvement should be easy to determine by plugging my Sarah into it now.
Back to top
 
 

Paul Pang Quad Network Switch & Fiber
MSB Premier DAC
Zen Sarah SEWE300B
Cryotone Bundle
Tekton 2-12 Perfect SET Speakers w/ BE Tweeters and Cap & Wiring upgrades
Tekton 2-10 Sub
  IP Logged
will
Seasoned Member
****




Posts: 2926
Re: DC Conditioning Tale
Reply #10 - 08/04/23 at 16:22:22
 
From the Emotiva writeup it looks like the CMX-2 is a multipurpose AC filter:

"The CMX-2 delivers clean power, free of high-frequency line noise and potentially audible DC offsets to your audio components.....

......uses top grade common mode and differential mode L-C filtering to reduce or eliminate all types of high-frequency noise."

So guessing it will clean noise other than DC offset. Then the perpetual "condition or not" question becomes, is anything sonically taken with that... like finest detail and/or speed/or dynamics??? And obviously where our power starts matters... making creation of better power even more tricky to figure out. But with all this being questioned a long time, why wouldn't power conditioner designers keep working to try to resolve these issues, and maybe these folks have found it pretty well.

I have had a time with power over years, and heard downgrades with the improvements using a "Stock" Uberbuss, and PSAudio P5. But then I adapted to reduce those issues with cables and mods. I just find it tricky stuff here, but finally weigh it out to where the down sides are negligible, and enough less than the up to hang a while.... Then I find some opening up of speed and resolution elsewhere and try to improve on my power again to keep up. Right now the P5 is out of my loop, running a modified balanced transformer supply into my tuned-up Uber, and then a modified Brickwall... pretty stable and clean.

I wonder how the Emotiva might play into this.
Back to top
 
 

All Modified: PSA-P5>DIY Strip/Shunyata Defender>RevolutionMacMini/Amarra-KTE Singxer/Gustardx20pro/ZBIT/CSP3>OldChen 300B/845, Torii IV>Omega S-A-H-O monitors/SVS Micro3000>Pi PCs-DIY PCs, ICs, USB, I2S, Speaker-SR and aluminum w ball bearing feet
  IP Logged
Doug
Seasoned Member
****




Posts: 274
Re: DC Conditioning Tale
Reply #11 - 08/26/23 at 18:29:35
 
Follow-up…..

My Cary 300SEI was reinserted and plugged into the Emotiva CMX-2, and the results were disappointing.  The overall presentation darkened, resolution decreased, and dynamics were depressed.  

After listening for a few days I removed the CMX-2 that was feeding AC to the Cary and much life was restored to the music.  A couple of days later the other two CMX-2 filters were removed, and once again the system instantly became more alive, with increased resolution and presence that was not there with the CMX-2’s supplying AC power.

There is definitely more hum present without the Emotiva DC eliminators in the system, but I can’t hear humming from the listening chair, so all is well in that regard.

I have also again tried my First Watt J2 amp with and without the CMX-2 and find that the music sounds far more alive without the CMX-2.

It’s embarrassing trying to explain my original thoughts about the CMX-2 devices from three and a half weeks ago.  My wife tells me that it’s my tendency to exaggerate that puts me in positions like this, where I am forced to backtrack.  I don’t know.  Several weeks back I was totally convinced that the system sounded better with the CMX-2’s, but now, after careful re-evaluation, it has become obvious that the system sounds significantly better without them.  As Will said, “it’s tricky stuff.”

I boxed up the two new CMX-2 units and returned them for a full refund, minus $9 to cover return shipping.  It should be noted that the Emotiva team has been helpful and cooperative in the return process.  I expect the refund to hit my account some time this coming week.

Tony, how did the CMX-2 perform in your system?
Back to top
 
 

Jay’s CD2T-Mk3
Denafrips Pontus II
ZROCK2 25th Mods
CSP3 25th & Custom Mods
PAP Quintets with Voxativ 1.6
First Watt J2 or Cary 300SEI
driving Voxativs—no crossover
LFD NCSE driving 15” Woofers
  IP Logged
will
Seasoned Member
****




Posts: 2926
Re: DC Conditioning Tale
Reply #12 - 08/26/23 at 18:52:31
 
Thanks for the follow up Doug. I think similar often happens for me, especially when I am focussed on trying to fix a certain aspect of the sound...then the parts of the sound that are little off become more present in mind and perception. Hum and buzz are killer for me, 60 and 120 hz particularly irritating... ending up with superman hum detection ears!

I run into this focus thing more often with tubes, though subtler in balance issues and solutions... but similar when I get really concentrated on trying to adjust a certain aspect of the sound with finesse, and in a fairly holistic way. Then when a tube choice seems to get me there, my first response is to want to order another pair for backup. The second thought though, is remembering that I already have lot of tubes, and that it takes me days to weeks sometimes to really hear all that is involved with a change that takes me from really good to a variation of really good.... especially across a broad range of recordings.

Ultimately I like this though. I keep learning a little better discernment of all the many balances that make our sound, individually and collectively, and this seems to make getting closer to "real" easier, while being fun to explore and learn along the way.
Back to top
 
 

All Modified: PSA-P5>DIY Strip/Shunyata Defender>RevolutionMacMini/Amarra-KTE Singxer/Gustardx20pro/ZBIT/CSP3>OldChen 300B/845, Torii IV>Omega S-A-H-O monitors/SVS Micro3000>Pi PCs-DIY PCs, ICs, USB, I2S, Speaker-SR and aluminum w ball bearing feet
  IP Logged
Tony
Seasoned Member
****


"Life without
..music is
inconceivable"
A.Einsteln

Posts: 627
Re: DC Conditioning Tale
Reply #13 - 08/26/23 at 19:31:43
 

Hi Doug,

I have two listening setups: a primary location and a secondary. After several interventions, I have successfully decreased the hum level at the primary site. My bottom line was to eliminate hearing it from the listening position, and to that end, I have been successful. The CXM-2 had little or no positive (or negative) impact at this location.

The secondary location is different; I have done no room treatment, and the hum was discernable from the listening position between tracks. At this location, the CMX-2 worked as expected, decreasing the hum. I cannot hear any detrimental effects of using the CMX-2 downstairs, so I plan to keep it there.

Thanks for your follow-up report. As we try different experiments to find what might contribute to SQ and what does not, posting findings, especially over time, helps.
Back to top
 
 

SE84UFO25 | Ic0n4 Passive Preamp | ZBIT | Cambr. CXNv2 | Denafrips Pontus II | Denafrips Gaia | Decware I/Cs | Decware Pwr Cbls | ZWIRE Speaker Cbls | Omega SAHOM & KEF KC62 | Furman Cond l GIK Room Trmt
  IP Logged
DJFreon
Senior Member
***




Posts: 50
Re: DC Conditioning Tale
Reply #14 - 08/30/23 at 11:58:45
 
Doug,

Have you used a volt meter to measure the DC that may be on the AC line? You may be able to see a small amount. DC could come from some digital signal imposed on the AC line. This is done with cable TV and ISP services. There is also a technology that uses your home AC as a network line. Switching power supplies also operate with PWM technology. The DC noise can be all over the house, generated by even the LED lamps & wall warts in your home.
If you measure DC on your line, then also measure it after the DC filter.
Back to top
 
 

Allen & Heath Xone 92
TAD TSM-300 Willsenson R8
KRK V88 ESS AMT x 4, Bi amp tube amps, Dr. Bag PP amp Douk KT88 fed DBX 234 Lii 10S SEUFO84
Douk B300 mono blocks tube amps ESS AMT 3
SDX12 DBX 510 Sunfire
Denon & Tascam
Dragonfly RED
DIY Headwre
  IP Logged
Pages: 1
Send Topic Print