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Live Versus Recorded Music (Read 1524 times)
Doug
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Posts: 274
Live Versus Recorded Music
12/12/22 at 01:22:19
 
Prior to the complete shutdown of live music two and a half years ago, my wife and I averaged somewhere in the neighborhood of a half dozen or more live concerts per year across the first thirty-five years of our marriage. Of those concerts, at least ninety percent of them were performances of baroque, classical, and romantic music, mostly in relatively intimate settings in the greater Kansas City metropolitan area.  The other ten percent was comprised of blue grass, blues, jazz, folk, pop, and rock.

Kansas City music lovers are lucky to have several venues that provide near perfect acoustics for “classical” music. Unfortunately, live performances have been banned the past couple of years, for the most part, by draconian health department restrictions…….up until this current fall/winter concert season, that is.  However, we have been hesitant this fall to purchase concert tickets due to very real threats by local health departments of additional venue shutdowns and cancellation of concerts.  

We finally bit the bullet yesterday evening and attended a performance of Handel’s Messiah at the world class Kauffman Center for the Performing Arts.  This annual Kansas City tradition is a bit odd, in that the Kansas City Symphony reduces it’s forces to twenty some players, making it about the right size for a Handel era orchestra, but then the choir, the gigantic 160 member (all volunteers) Kansas City Symphony Chorus provides the singing, and they can be overwhelming.  This year’s guest conductor did a commendable job keeping the choir under control, though I still much prefer a choir of fifteen to twenty singers to match the standard baroque sized orchestra.

Our seats were around thirty-five to forty feet away from the orchestra, slightly left, and maybe ten feet above stage level. The design of Helzberg Hall is so good that no matter where you are seated in the 1,600 seat music hall, soloists can all be heard as if you were in a small room with them, but our seats last night were especially good.  The sound of the orchestra, the vocal soloists, and the choir, was outstanding, as usual.  We could not have hoped for a more beautiful and moving experience.

So how did last night’s live music compare to a recorded concert in the same hall?  Well, the Reference Recordings CD/SACD recordings of the recent past provide far more detail than would ever be possible for a listener to pick up during a live concert in Helzberg Hall.  With today’s great recording techniques, and our highly resolving systems, we have it so good!  

This makes me wonder……..are our systems too good?  We are hearing all kinds of detail in our listening rooms, and in our living rooms, that is rarely heard in live performances.  

In the fall of 1979, when I was a junior at the University of Missouri - Rolla, I sat directly in front of Carlos Montoya as he amazed a hundred or so students in a very intimate two hour recital.  I was, literally, five feet away from the flamenco master for a full concert!   There was nothing between me and Senior Montoya but a few feet of air!  That may be  the one and only live concert where I likely heard more musical detail than I would hear in the same recorded event.  

Not sure what point I’m attempting to drive home here, if any—possibly that our constant striving for a higher level of resolution may not be getting us closer to the sound of live music.  I just don’t know.  I am quite sure about one thing though; simply enjoying the music that our Decware anchored systems bring to our homes is quite enough!  We truly are blessed!




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Jay’s CD2T-Mk3
Denafrips Pontus II
ZROCK2 25th Mods
CSP3 25th & Custom Mods
PAP Quintets with Voxativ 1.6
First Watt J2 or Cary 300SEI
driving Voxativs—no crossover
LFD NCSE driving 15” Woofers
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Lon
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"Love without
guts is
worthless!"
Philip K. Dick

Posts: 23462
Re: Live Versus Recorded Music
Reply #1 - 12/12/22 at 01:40:17
 
Yes, we're really blessed, many audiophiles are.

I actually have a different pathway to this conclusion you have come to, in that for an important time I was playing more music alone and with others than attending concerts etc. And playing an instrument alone or with others is a very different experience than the audiophile stereo one, and they seem different sonic worlds. The ultimate audiophile sound is quite different than being in a rehearsal room or stage or a garage or a living room and playing/creating music.

I've cured myself from seeking the ultimate sound I think because I shifted my goal a few decades ago to seeking to make all the music I listen to sound really good, rather than to get the ultimate very best sound which is only really possible with excellent recordings. When I pursued the ultimate very best sound I found myself only wanting to hear the very best recordings and losing my love for many recordings and for exploring different genres and styles.

Once I found my way towards my new goal I found myself getting more out of mediocre recordings than I ever did before, and even finding ways to listen into bad recordings. The Decware ZROCK2 was the missing element that I have enjoyed ever since Steve recommended I try one, and the other key component is exploring gain structure between components and having components where I could control the gain.  

Now I have instruments to play and stereo systems to play, and each educates me and even educates me one about the other. I have no idea what I would do without music. I protect my hearing as much as I can because. . . one big fear is to have damaged hearing or deafness. Life would just SUCK.
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HR-1,ZTPRE,ZBIT,ZROCK2,SEWE300B,CSP3-25mod,Taboo MkIV;Rega RP3 all GrooveTracer mods;PSAudio:PST+DSD,P15,NPC,PowerBases,AC-12 pwr cbls,Reference spkrcbls;Mapleshade SamsonV3;VooDoo:Cremona+Amati interconnects, IsoPods; headphones:Sennheiser HD800S,ZMF Ori,Oppo PM1
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Doug
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Posts: 274
Re: Live Versus Recorded Music
Reply #2 - 12/12/22 at 02:07:26
 
Lon, I completely agree with everything you said.  My one month old ZROCK2 has changed how I listen, and has changed what I am able to listen to without being frustrated by less-than-excellent recordings.  On top of that, I now have seven (yes, seven!) individual gain controls in my system that, along with the ZR2, allow me tailor the sound to the point that I thoroughly enjoy pretty much every CD I own.  The fact is, since throwing the ZR2 into the mix, I have not encountered a single recording that I can’t make sound really good.  We are definitely on the same wavelength!
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Jay’s CD2T-Mk3
Denafrips Pontus II
ZROCK2 25th Mods
CSP3 25th & Custom Mods
PAP Quintets with Voxativ 1.6
First Watt J2 or Cary 300SEI
driving Voxativs—no crossover
LFD NCSE driving 15” Woofers
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Lon
Seasoned Member
****


"Love without
guts is
worthless!"
Philip K. Dick

Posts: 23462
Re: Live Versus Recorded Music
Reply #3 - 12/12/22 at 02:14:19
 
Yes, it seems we are. I hope we keep enjoying our systems for a long long time!
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HR-1,ZTPRE,ZBIT,ZROCK2,SEWE300B,CSP3-25mod,Taboo MkIV;Rega RP3 all GrooveTracer mods;PSAudio:PST+DSD,P15,NPC,PowerBases,AC-12 pwr cbls,Reference spkrcbls;Mapleshade SamsonV3;VooDoo:Cremona+Amati interconnects, IsoPods; headphones:Sennheiser HD800S,ZMF Ori,Oppo PM1
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BlackBess
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TURN IT DOWN,I have
children sleeping
here

Posts: 159
Re: Live Versus Recorded Music
Reply #4 - 12/12/22 at 06:19:59
 
A week ago last Sunday I attended a concert by the Pittsburgh Symphony Orchestra preforming Mozart’s Mass. I’ve been a PSO subscriber for 35 years though a rocker for far longer. I have never heard a better Mass. The ladies in particular were breathtaking, bringing a tear to my eye. If I can experience that at home, that’s money well spent to me.
  Give that boy a 6 string steel guitar, Ralph

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CAJames
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"I've run every
red light on memory
lane."

Posts: 1652
Re: Live Versus Recorded Music
Reply #5 - 12/12/22 at 16:30:34
 
Rather than writing it all out again here is a link to a recent discussion that is similar.

https://www.decware.com/cgi-bin/yabb22/YaBB.pl?num=1665217643/1#1

TL:DR is live music and recorded music are just different. Both can be very satisfying (or not depending on circumstances) but I think they need to be appreciated on their own terms.
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[FOOBAR2000 | Jay's CDT2 MRK3] -> Denafrips Terminator 2 + Gaia
Sumiko Pearwood -> Mapleknoll Athena -> Luxman SUT -> Maple-tree Phono 3E
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Omega SAM , Hifiman Arya, Senn HD-650
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Tony
Seasoned Member
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"Life without
..music is
inconceivable"
A.Einsteln

Posts: 622
Re: Live Versus Recorded Music
Reply #6 - 12/12/22 at 17:39:17
 

CAJames, thanks for posting your comments again.  

I sent it to a friend with whom I have been having a similar discussion.
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SE84UFO25 | Ic0n4 Passive Preamp | ZBIT | Cambr. CXNv2 | Denafrips Pontus II | Denafrips Gaia | Decware I/Cs | Decware Pwr Cbls | ZWIRE Speaker Cbls | Omega SAHOM & KEF KC62 | Furman Cond l GIK Room Trmt
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GroovySauce
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Posts: 815
Re: Live Versus Recorded Music
Reply #7 - 12/14/22 at 15:22:47
 
Increasing resolution doesn’t get you closer to live. The same way viewing a photograph of a landscape isn’t the same as being in the wilderness looking over a valley. You can increase the resolution of the photograph all you want. It will never be the same as being there.

In audio and photography increasing resolution can lead to increased enjoyment of the work.

If you ever have the chance to stop by a Peter Lik gallery I highly recommend it. He pushes contrast, color and dynamics beyond what is “natural”. Viewing the photographs with the lighting set to optimize the effect is really stunning! Viewing the photographs via a computer screen doesn’t convey what it’s like to view the photos. The photos also don’t convey what the event was.

The direction with my system is to create a unique experience that is only available in my space. Moving towards what I’m interested in, what I want to experience. I’ve hit an extraordinarily high level of resolution, in gear and room acoustics. I don’t expect to have the live event recreated in my room, I’ve never expected that. I do have a magical experience at my fingertips, which is exactly what I wanted.
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Tony
Seasoned Member
****


"Life without
..music is
inconceivable"
A.Einsteln

Posts: 622
Re: Live Versus Recorded Music
Reply #8 - 12/14/22 at 15:47:20
 

Well said, GroovySauce.
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SE84UFO25 | Ic0n4 Passive Preamp | ZBIT | Cambr. CXNv2 | Denafrips Pontus II | Denafrips Gaia | Decware I/Cs | Decware Pwr Cbls | ZWIRE Speaker Cbls | Omega SAHOM & KEF KC62 | Furman Cond l GIK Room Trmt
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