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Rotating baffle a little? (Read 251 times)
J-Lane
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Rotating baffle a little?
06/23/22 at 20:06:05
 
So after 20 years I have decided to build another wicked one 10" version. The subs I chose ended up actually being slightly larger than 10". They are listed online as a 10" subwoofer however their physical outer dimension ends up being 11". This becomes an issue when trying to screw them to the front of the baffle. I do not want to move them to the back of the baffle in fear that this may cause the sealed chamber to become smaller and create a "boomier" sound. Before starting this project I drew the plans in sketchup in order to be able to get all the angles and dimensions spot on when building the box. This is allowed me to Go in and redo the baffle at an angle and get measurements to verify that both the front and rear chambers are still very close to the original design. My question is does anyone think this will affect the sound with the subwoofer being at an angle. In my head I can't think of how it would but I don't want to go and mess my box up trying to make these subs fit.
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Donnie
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Re: Rotating baffle a little?
Reply #1 - 06/23/22 at 20:34:15
 
Na, go for it!
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Same Old DD
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Re: Rotating baffle a little?
Reply #2 - 06/23/22 at 20:50:52
 
Like he said!

In fact if you can rotate the baffle around a center line, there will be no change to either front or rear chambers. You probably already know this since you are using software, but I can guarantee that many folks coming after you with a similiar question would not get that at first.


Out of curiousity, what drivers are you using?
Is the outer diameter larger because the design has a larger outer suspension to increase cone excursion?
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J-Lane
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Re: Rotating baffle a little?
Reply #3 - 06/24/22 at 17:12:19
 
So this whole thing is kind of a shot in the dark. A good friend of mine found these plans 20 years ago and we put his Pioneer 10's in it. I could not believe the sounds the box produced. Ever since that day I've wanted to build another one. I finally decided I was going to do it but I wanted to "experiment" with a different sub just to see what would happen. I've always wondered what would one of the heavier duty subs that are popular today sound like in a wicked one. I ended up going with the NVX VCW104V3. I had actually ordered the V2 but they sent me the V3. I've looked online and don't even see that they show a V3 being available. I'm assuming it must be a fairly new version. Knowing my luck the TS parameters are probably not what they should be for this style of enclosure but I bought them through Amazon so if I try them and they don't sound good I'll just send them back and find a different brand. The only reference I saw to any TS parameters in the wicked one papers was to have an FS around 30 Hz +/- 10 Hz. The V2 was around 30 Hz. This V3 has an FS of 33 Hertz. This is still within the recommended range. Below are the TS parameters for this sub....

Power Range: 800-1000 (RMS)
Resistance per coil: 4ohms (dual vc)
Frequency response: 20-200 Hz
FS: 33.6
QES: 0.668
QMS: 5.424
QTS: 0.595
Vas: 19.06 L
Xmax: 22 mm
No: 0.10%
SPL (1W/M): 82.3
Sd: 47.74 in.2
Re: 6.4 ohms
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Same Old DD
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Re: Rotating baffle a little?
Reply #4 - 06/24/22 at 19:51:47
 
Looks like you should be fine.

I can't remember exact specs offhand, but I think the enclosure was designed around a driver in Qts range around .35 or so.
It's here somewhere; we can look it up, if need.

You're a little off from that design spec. I hesitate to go too high with Qts in any enclosure, but you have excursion, power handling and Fs on your side.

I have used "tighter" more pro style drivers with higher Fs and still seen great results. My find is that this box is very forgiving with which driver one chooses. I've built several.
Shot in the dark thing has been figured out for you really well.

Good luck with your build! (USE GOOD MATERIALS! MDF works fine.)

Keep us posted.


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SE84Cs Mono'ed, McIntosh MC2500, Yamaha Pre, Dual TT, Ortofon, JBL2235x4 modded for OB, Visaton B200 OB, Kleenline Power, Revox & Sony R-R
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J-Lane
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Re: Rotating baffle a little?
Reply #5 - 06/26/22 at 02:08:07
 
UPDATE:
I will say that one of my reasons for doing this project was because I had a FI Q 15 installed before and I decided to use that as a sub for my home theater. I wanted to do a cool project for my Honda and this is why I did the wicked one.

I have finished assembly of the enclosure and tested it. I can say it sounds very flat. I have my highs crossed over around 70 Hz so I set my crossover going to the wicked one around 70 Hz as well. It makes a pretty nice transition between my highs and the wicked one. It seems to sound very responsive to quick bass hits. Lower bass notes around the 40-50 Hz range sounds fairly powerful. My biggest issue at this point is that around 30 Hz it drops off a lot. I understand it's only two 10" subs but I kind of hoped it would play a little bit below 30 Hz but it's pretty much inaudible. I'm wondering if this is due to these subs not having the suggested Qts as someone mentioned above.

I know they suggest when calculating the sealed enclosure size to design a standard 4th order and just use the sealed side. I have bass box pro but I don't usually design 4th order enclosures. When I did try it I just had bass box recommend the best size but I'm not sure if that will yield good results. I guess what I'm wanting to do is add a wall behind the sub to shrink the sealed side and see how it affects the performance.

Does anyone have any recommendations on how best to find the rear chamber size?

I will be taking measurements at some point with REW to maybe compare the wicked one to my FI Q 15 and if I get some info about changing the sealed part of the enclosure I will do a before and after of that as well.













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J-Lane
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Re: Rotating baffle a little?
Reply #6 - 06/26/22 at 05:39:35
 
I guess maybe you misunderstood my question. I guess I didn't phrase it properly. I can figure out the volume easily as I have drawn the entire wicked one in sketchup. That's how I quickly calculated the volumes while rotating the baffles and still maintaining the proper volumes of the original design. My question is in regards to the recommendation by Steve for calculating the proper sealed chamber size by designing a regular 4th order bandpass and then, based on that, shrinking the volume of the sealed chamber if needed. I'm asking if anyone has a good way to properly figure out the size my sealed chamber should be based on my speaker TS parameters.



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Same Old DD
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Re: Rotating baffle a little?
Reply #7 - 06/26/22 at 15:44:33
 
Yeah, sorry.
You were being serious and I was making a tongue in cheek, inappropriately dark social commentary. I ditched it.

Rather than beat ourselves up trying to work one driver into a perfect situation, the enclosure is more "scienced out" let's say as far as the relationship between the sealed section and the open section.
That is the balance that is most important to maintain.

What you mainly need inside there is an air pump, which you have.

Sometimes with a higher Qts driver a larger sealed section can be better, but you can affect that somewhat (maybe a few percent) with acoustical stuffing materials. Often that alone can make a great deal of difference in how a driver performs in an enclosure.

I have built several using various drivers and I have only stuffed one of them, trying to affect driver compatibility characteristics.  

What does it sound like? Are you getting decent output? Do you like it?

Mine can usually blow out a candle two feet away with a hundred watts on the drivers. Friend of mine showed me that fun stuff.


Another possible answer would be to seal it up and run some tests. Add a couple of bricks or something solid to one chamber, stuff the other with acoustical fluff materials and test each driver seperately. Determine which way to go.

Doing this I found that adding a couple of braces inside the sealed chamber helped out a low Qts driver quite a bit.
However, I believe you are on the other side of the volume questions. Is there enough volume for your intended driver?

Then reality sets in. You have built the enclosure! The hard part is accomplished and quite well judging by your pics.
Thank you, BTW. I can never remember to take pics when in motion!

You can always switch out drivers as a way to improve things.
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SE84Cs Mono'ed, McIntosh MC2500, Yamaha Pre, Dual TT, Ortofon, JBL2235x4 modded for OB, Visaton B200 OB, Kleenline Power, Revox & Sony R-R
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