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Another Secret from the HiFi Underground : ) (Read 1105 times)
Steve Deckert
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Another Secret from the HiFi Underground : )
06/17/22 at 04:27:58
 
My first Audiophile CD was TriCycle.  Got it on the same day as my first CD player in 1984. If you're not familiar with it, you should consider listening to it.



You can stream the 24 bit version of it from Qobuz which I have been enjoying since the CD was obviously only 16 bits. And I've even thrown it to 15IPS tape with the ideal gain structures to really maximize the slam which is what this CD is all about.  It set the benchmark for dynamics.

Well this week I discovered there is a direct metal mastered 45rpm album of this and the price was dirt cheap so it arrived and tonight I have just done the first side of the first record - there are two.  

I used the HDT speakers with the Silver 8 drivers hooked directly to a TORII JRv2 driven by a ZSTAGE that was fed from my ZP3 phono stage and I have to say I really wasn't prepared for how much better it is compared to the digital. My face hurts!

So with that background, here's the secret:  I have a ZP3 with the tape mod so I can plug my tape heads directly into it when I get that urge. But it's really so that I can dial in the RIAA equalization by ear until I get it perfect when I listen to records. (This is why I use one for my LP and one for my tape machines.)

The way this is done is to set the TAPE / LP switch to TAPE.  This changes the EQ from RIAA to NAB.  There is an adjustment knob that you can adjust with a small screwdriver that will let you swing that EQ from NAB to IEC via an infinitely variable pot.  The range on the pot extends past both NAB and IEC so that you can dial it nearly back to RIAA again, but with a different bass shelf.

This is the magic tool to dial in the cartridge, setup transformer, and overall voicing of the vinyl system to make it sound right instead of just living with however it happens to come out.  There is a wide variance between how different records sound and having the ability to jump between standard RIAA and you own custom setting is priceless.  I can't emphasize that enough.  This record dialed in with my custom EQ sounds so perfectly balanced on these explosive speakers that I just could hardly believe how good this music was.  In stock RIAA it was equally impressive but a touch sharp and a touch forward with less depth and space around things than is possible.  Still I would have told you it was the best I've ever heard it, but with the custom EQ I suddenly heard the recording happen vs. heard the recording. The sound was so perfect, so round so  textured and dimensional.  This was from an Analog master and I'm just without words how much better it sounds compared to the digital file or CD.  So refreshing.  It really is like comparing the diameter of a golf ball with an 18 foot round swimming pool of data.  Definitely one of the best records I've ever had the pleasure of hearing and it was well under $50.  

The direct metal mastering process I have on several records I own and it launches things to a new level.

The one thing I did notice on this record is that the groove noise on this LP was also pretty audible as a surreal surround sound that went past my shoulders and behind me.  The air was breathing all around me.  That's what it sounded like.  And someone with an axe to grind could call it out right there and build an argument for why digital is better but then the music starts and it's just like... holy crap!  To get this I have to tolerate that?  We'll gee, OK!  It could have also been tape hiss which is always preferred over dolby noise reduction which killed everything it touched from a reference standpoint like this. What I liked about this experience of the lead in groove and between tracks is that I feel like my ears are turned  on all the way and I can everything there is, even the air between myself and everything around me.  Then when the music starts I know I was right because it is over the top vivid and present.  Like binoculars for the ears.

So there is a nested lesson in this story as well in that I can hear a new benchmark for sound quality in my life like I did tonight as an audiophile spanning 40 years with no more than a TORII JRv2 and a ZP3/ZSTAGE combo.  I didn't have to drag my 300B amp over, or hook up the UFO25 because what I heard was so good I couldn't imagine it getting any better and that greatly simplifies life since I don't have to swap any gear around. Seriously it was the best I have ever heard an album sound I think.  I guess being so familiar with it's digital version and then hearing everything transform into real sounding instruments was more than I was ready for.

So when you listen to the CD or stream you can clearly hear what the instruments are but the precision of the musicians and the effect of the Digital mastering makes it sound more like really good samples.  Yes you equate it to real instruments like "that sound is the drums, and that sound is the sax" but when you hear an analogue master like this you suddenly hear the real instruments as they are making the sound.  You can see the vibration of the sound in the loose skin on the forearm traveling across it like a wave and you notice the textures of the sound and the feel of the musician and how he moves all goes together.  It's really like hearing in 4 dimensional space instead of 3 if that makes any sense and the experience is no different from being at the live event.  You close your eyes and use your third eye to see the musicians as they play and the space they are in.

So good was it that just the first side of record A launched this entire diatribe and in 30 years of listening to the same album digitally over probably 500 times I haven't spoken more than a few words about it. That should tell you something.  Tells me that regardless of which format is more accurate analog is a hell of a lot more fun. To me it's like comparing rear wheel drive muscle cars with windows that won't seal out the wind to front wheel drive wizzbangers that barely weight enough to stay on the ground.  I've seen both get down the track in similar times, but only one was really cool and sounded great doing it while the other was somewhat hideous looking and sounded like a giant mad bee with its dick stuck in a garbage disposal as it went down the track.










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DPC
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Re: Another Secret from the HiFi Underground : )
Reply #1 - 06/17/22 at 11:17:41
 
+1 !

Streamed it this morning.

Dynamics and slam are killer!

Added to my play list.
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EdwardT
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Re: Another Secret from the HiFi Underground : )
Reply #2 - 06/17/22 at 14:27:44
 
Nice to see Jimmy Johnson getting some recognition, he has an extensive résumé and it covers a nice range of genres. Back in the day he was the tour bassist for Michael Johnson's Bluer Than Blue tour. Not related (that I know of) but both Minnesota natives.
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Arpin
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Re: Another Secret from the HiFi Underground : )
Reply #3 - 06/17/22 at 14:27:55
 
I’m pretty sure you are probably hearing tape hiss. This same thing started happening to me last year after I rewired my entire chain of wire running from the cartridge to the insides of the speakers with much much higher quality stuff. At first I only noticed this on some albums and thought the same thing, was it groove noise? What was it. But then, I started to notice on certain albums this noise would drop off completely between tracks or at the end of the side. That’s when I started suspecting tape noise. Then I played some digital recordings that were pressed to vinyl, no tape noise at all… silence. As I have it now on my main system and my headphones, I am able to hear tape noise now on all of my vinyl, and even sometimes on CD if it’s an original analog recording.

I don’t own a tape player, and I’m not sure that if I ever will, but vinyl remains the king of audio in my system and isn’t just sweeter sounding. Vinyl allows me to hear the closest to the reality of the recording and the original environment and it now offers unparalleled detail and resolution well beyond CD.
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ChJKy (Chris)
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Re: Another Secret from the HiFi Underground : )
Reply #4 - 06/17/22 at 14:59:53
 
I have this streaming right now as I type this. Just incredible. Incredibly dynamic. Thank you Steve for the recommendation.
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Steve Deckert
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Re: Another Secret from the HiFi Underground : )
Reply #5 - 06/17/22 at 16:29:24
 

Actually Flim & the BB's have several great releases. It would be nice if more music was composed and recorded like that : )




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Crazy Bill the Eel Killer
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Re: Another Secret from the HiFi Underground : )
Reply #6 - 06/17/22 at 18:09:19
 
Hello all,
Steve is spot on with this recommendation. I've been listening to this for over 30 years.

IMHO, this is the CD version to get, and I have them both.

https://www.discogs.com/release/9110541-Flim-The-BBs-Tricycle

Really outstanding stuff. The dynamics on this compete with my best vinyl.

To address Steve's comment on music being recorded like this, DMP was the brainchild of Tom Jung.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/DMP_Digital_Music_Products

Should explain it.

Cheers,                    Crazy Bill
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EdwardT
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Re: Another Secret from the HiFi Underground : )
Reply #7 - 06/17/22 at 18:23:39
 
I'd bet that the dynamics and the elevated noise are products of the 45 rpm disc, longer tracking for the waveform but also more mechanical byproduct for the stylus.
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Kahuna Jack
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Re: Another Secret from the HiFi Underground : )
Reply #8 - 06/17/22 at 18:49:31
 
I do not own that recording but it was the 'go to' demo cd at my local independent high end audio dealer that sold Mcintosh , B&O , ADS ,Yamaha (before they sold out to chains) and NAD + Boston Acoustics for entry level.

They were using Flim when all the other shops were still demoing with Fly Like an Eagle. Year of the Cat. Supertramp  and Pink Floyd.

If thats the same Jimmy Johnson/bass, Ive seen him live many times with Alan Holdsworth. I guess its time to give it a re listen.
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funch
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Re: Another Secret from the HiFi Underground : )
Reply #9 - 06/18/22 at 04:29:10
 
This recording reminds me of the Sheffield Labs 'Drum' and 'Track' direct-to-disc recordings from '81 and '82.
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Same Old DD
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Re: Another Secret from the HiFi Underground : )
Reply #10 - 06/20/22 at 03:08:53
 
Why isn't all music recorded this well?
I seem to have lost my Tidal password, but even the YouTube file sounds impressive compared to what else you find there.
I'm going to buy that one.

Thanks for another heads up!
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EdwardT
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Re: Another Secret from the HiFi Underground : )
Reply #11 - 07/15/22 at 17:44:06
 
Ooh, the Prophet 5 + Moog on “Lunch Hour Wedding March” will test the lower depths of your system in such a good way. I was just thinking last week on the lasting legacy of Sequential Circuits and the late Dave Smith and this song seems such a fitting epitaph.
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Re: Another Secret from the HiFi Underground : )
Reply #12 - 07/15/22 at 23:41:02
 
Question for Crazy Bill,

Is the remastered version really wortth the price premium?  Thx

ChrisC

Smiley
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Crazy Bill the Eel Killer
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Re: Another Secret from the HiFi Underground : )
Reply #13 - 07/18/22 at 01:38:13
 
Hello Chris,
Give me a few days to find both copies and compare. It's been 20+ years since I've done that. I'll get then into why I think gold CDs are, in general, superior to AL CDs .  After I compare both head to head I'll let you know what I hear.

Take a few days but I'll get back.

Cheers,  Crazy Bill
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ChrisC
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Re: Another Secret from the HiFi Underground : )
Reply #14 - 07/18/22 at 16:58:35
 
Bill,

much appreciated and certainly no rush!

ChrisC

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Crazy Bill the Eel Killer
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Re: Another Secret from the HiFi Underground : )
Reply #15 - 08/10/22 at 22:05:55
 
Hello Chris,
Can't find the standard CD, just the gold one. I've searched every where it should be ( and places it shouldn't ), and I can't locate it. Afraid I won't be able to do the comparison for you.

What I do remember though, is that a friend had both copies and we compared through his Burmeister CD player and Stax rig. The gold copy, in my memory, was superior, though my recall is not good enough to give you specifics. At the time I had the standard CD. Went right out and purchased the gold version based upon that listening session. It was in the mid 90's.

Sorry I couldn't be of more help.

Cheers,           Crazy Bill
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ChrisC
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Re: Another Secret from the HiFi Underground : )
Reply #16 - 08/10/22 at 22:13:10
 
Bill,

No worries and thanks; truly appreciate the extra effort!

ChrisC

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