Best of luck KJ with your comparative listening research. We don't get many chances to hear opinions from comparative testing.

Almost two years from getting my amps, I'm almost considering changing a double UFO25 order to a single Taboo order. At least the Taboo has balanced inputs.

Steve says yes. 3 watts. binding posts. You have my attention.

I'll have a contrary experience and opinion than Brad with the Taboo. Sure they were designed with headphones in mind but there were three Mk versions before hand, I have had the III and have the IV, and both are quite capable of driving speakers. (I'd be very interested in hearing if Steve felt they were inferior at driving speakers). I have used mine, with a CSP2+ or CSP3, ZBIT and ZROCK2 and HR-1 speakers in a fairly large room in my audio-visual system and it does run out of steam with the huge low frequency sounds of video content at very high volumes, but not with music. And it doesn't sound "thin" to me.

In my own experience the Taboo is neither more nor less "thin" than the Zen or Torii or Rachel amps I have had. I have had the 27th amp Steve built, a "Select" amp, a modded C amp, a version of EL34 monoblocks Steve no longer builds, the model of Rachel before Rachel, a Torii Mk II, a Torii Mk III and SE84UFO3 monoblocks. Each had the Decware sound, none of which I would actually describe as "thin" sounding. And with a preamp and a ZROCK2 more "density" can be added to the sound.

Brad to my knowledge has not had an SE84UFO or a Torii . . . . So I am not sure how he can compare "thinness" between models.

There are a lot of factors that go into how one experiences an amp: source, speakers, room, power, cabling, hearing--more. In my case, and in several rooms and with progressively more resolving speakers, none of the amps really sound "thin" and the Taboo is quite a performer. Fantastic with headphones as well!

I will say this about the Taboo Mk IV: the 25th Anniversary mods do improve the amplifier, I've had it both with and without, and the power difference between it and a single SE84UFO is not huge. Yes, it's a bit more powerful, but speakers I have on hand (HR-1, two pair, ERR one pair) work with both and with not that much of a "headroom" difference.

Shit, I could get 20 hours of therapy for the cost of a UFO25.

Argh, don't tempt me...I could get one 25 and still do a fully-modded Torii Junior, which (I'm not sure what's up on the page now) Steve basically seemed to say was just as good as the Torii Mk. IV, at least.

Heh heh, yeah I'm sure the DW PPs are superior. As I trudged through the heat and humidlty back home from the park near my house, where I feed the stray cat every day, I began thinking, once again, about what a 730-day wait FEELS like. It feels like trudging through endless heat and humidity, forever. I still almost can't wrap my head around it. No, it's too inhumane for me.

I don’t worry about the wait. Two years from now all the current products will be improved and we’ll be first in line.  ;D

My attitude is the wait list is like it is on layaway. I have been making monthly payments since I made my order.  This allows me to make a purchase over time that otherwise I wouldn't be able to to afford. It allows me the ability to buy a complete system without putting it on a CC and paying interest. The wait list levels the playing field without me dipping into my savings. 10 percent down and X amount of months to pay works to my advantage. It also removes my purchase from being an impulse purchase seeking the thrill of instant gratification.

It also allows Steve the scalability for his increasing demand and having the expense of ramping up his business to stock inventory. This allows Steve to keep cost low and competitive , it gives him an advantage in the world of high end HI-FI. The Direct to Consumer "wholesale" pricing combined with a waitlist is an economical business model with the added bonus of allowing him to pass savings along to his clients and give himself some working capital at the same time. It also allows Steve to have the time to experiment with his ideas and the development of his designs with a healthy dose of QA every step of the way.

Oh dear, I've been indiscrete again

BurgerMeester   Back to the end of the Line
https://youtu.be/0xZGpI7RQuQ

https://youtu.be/Z5_uJrkJFsM

BurgerMeester asked Quote:


Same Steve question only with the ZP3 and the Rachel in and out balanced connectors.

Quote:


ZP3 is single ended (unless you know something special...) and the cables for a single ended mono connection are already available.

If you want to run a balanced connection from your turntable to phonostage (which would be pretty cool) you need something different than the ZP3. A balanced signal is essentially 4 channel and the ZP3 is two channel so it is fundamentally different. I have seen balanced phono stages, although they are pretty "high end" if you know what I mean.

If you want to run balanced to a pair of Rachels you can do that with the same cables you'd use for balanced mono UFOs. See page 17 of the UFO manual for a picture. And, now that I think about it, maybe you could use the same cables and a pair of ZP3s to get a balanced phono stage, although I'd worry about ground and hum and stuff.

Otherwise you'd want to look at a ZBIT for converting balanced to single ended, which is generally a more flexible option than building it into the amp because you can move it around the signal chain as your system evolves.

You know I don't get the whole "rooms get so hot with tubes" because that just really hasn't been my experience--especially not with preamps that have just input tubes and a rectifier or so.

Well Lon with my air conditioner off today without amps running the temperature reached 90°F with the windows closed. Of course that is only in the dog days of summer. My Apt is right below the roof compounding the temp.

I'm not saying a normal system would overheat the room but two mono blocks into two phono preamps with a Preamp in a room with no windows and the door closed with little ventilation on a day like today could become quite uncomfortable.

Harley Lovegrove, the technical director of the loudspeaker company 'Pearl acoustics Ltd.' talks about how sound is converted into electricity and how that is amplified so that the loudspeaker's drive cone can convert the electricity back into sound.

Here he talks about the heat in this edited segment https://youtu.be/abdmZbQPQtY?t=1910

Joe, That is already too uncomfortable before the amps are run.  That is how my upstairs room is with my system in the peak of the hottest afternoons of the summer (with windows open) without my window AC unit on . It's already too hot to listen, turning on my system doesn't make it worse. And listening with the AC unit on, even if the system were all solid state, is not fun as the AC sound dominates.

But when the room temperature is comfortable listening to my monoblocks and preamps on doesn't make it worse. I'm just reporting my experiences--I don't understand the issue as I don't experience it. I know all about the physics, but the output of heat is just not that significant with Decware amps and preamps. Not even with 33 years before in Texas. Same situation applied--too hot to listen before an amp is even turned on, or listening is fine with the system not making it more uncomfortable.

My room is totally sealed with the doors closed. I would imagine if one stayed in there long enough(days) oxygen would become scarce. When playing vinly there are 15 tubes being heated. After long sessions the room will get warm from the equipment but I never recall it getting uncomfortable.

Along with power transformers the power supply voltage drop resistors also add a good bit of heat generated.

Amazed to see that almost 80% of the 1900 orders on the list are for SET amps.

Use a powered subwoofer and an in-line filter? Take a load off your AMP??

Is THIS the answer? Is this a BAD answer?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=65eFr2rKy3M

CAJames,

The last sentence in Steve's paper you linked rings words of truth

Quote:


THIS might be the answer for a small speaker driven by mucho watts. BAD answer for the SET 2.3 watt.

It is like comparing apples to oranges.

A SET's output tranny is at it's best interacting with the drivers coil and magnet. Placing anything it the way of that interaction will hamper, delay, mistrack that playfulness. This can be heard readily by changing speaker wires in a good SET system.

The link in that post explains the oranges.

John

Well, I like apples better than oranges. But, do like your reversal of my comparison

Oranges are great, but a little more work is involved to enjoy while apples just require a wash

The thought had occurred to me.

I rest my case.

Hey John, the journey with my new combo is only at the beginning of its infancy. The amp has like 1 hour on it. The speakers are well broken in, as I got them used here on the forum.

You are quite right, I listen primarily to classical; the baroque and classical periods mostly, yes absolutely chamber mostly. Then jazz fusion/jazz, then early-mid 70’s prog rock (mostly symphonic like ELP, Genesis, Yes, etc in their early-mid iterations), then acoustic, blues, blues-rock, Americana, jazz vocals, rock last.

The sound is full, rich, very well rendered from bottom up, and very detailed all the way through. I have all the volume I need and love, and then some, which is exactly what I didn’t have all to often with winded single ended SEP and tepid single drivers. You need some power with prog rock, rock, jazz rock, blues rock. Single ended and single drivers don’t render it properly especially in the lower frequencies. And to think this is just the beginning, far from several hundred hrs of amp break-in. I’m flabbergasted. The difference to me is like a solid roundhouse right to the side of my head, night and day, not even close.

A better more detailed report in a few months. I don’t listen to audio every day, and an average session might be 1-2 hours, do it takes quite some time.

Brad