Hoping this helps some with potential Decware owners that are still nervous about 2.3 watts not having enough power to reach healthy listening levels.
Straight to the back page of the book answer is yes 2.3 watts was plenty loud and then some for me in my 10x12 room powering Klipsch rp-8000f.
In fact Im getting out of my seat to turn down the volume more then I am looking to turn it up.

As far as different perceptions of healthy volume?? the UFO2.1 chased a Prima Luna Dialogue HP ( 8 GL KT88's ) and I found almost the opposite comparison to a recent youtube vid on almost the same amplifiers. I found the bass on the PrimaLuna HP to be soft and fluffy around the edges compared to the finely outlined tightness/grip and detail of the UFO2.1 .
The bass from this combo of UFO2'1 and 8000f vibrates the walls and my furniture in my room to the point where as I said I am turning the volume down as not to disturb the rest of the household.

Besides the PrimaLuna HP the other amps that were used to evaluate the volume levels of my new 2'3 watt per channel UFO2.1 were a NADc370 , a Marantz mm7055 ( using 2 channels only ) and a life long bff of mine a B&K st-202 using a few different average preamps that kick around my shop as test mules.
So I have a good idea what healthy volumes are and the UFO2.1 hasn't disappointed at all.

Oh, I did also try the rp-600m's and they were fine. Not as full and large as 8000f's but I kind of expected that. Until I find a drastic upgrade the Klipsch 8000f's will suit me well.

Brilliant—thanks for posting your feedback. I too have the same speakers and ordered the Rachael to up the power output just to err on the side of caution.

These speakers are terrific. They have continued to impress me each time I moved to a better amp-starting from an AV receiver to a Rega integrated to Schiit Audio’s Aegir monoblocks paired with their tube pre.

Since I have some time on my hands (currently # 700 something on the list), and after continuing to fail at the option of buying used Decware amps, I have decided to go another route and pulled the trigger for a Dennis Had Firebottle KT-88 SEP (to use in the meantime).  Based on my research, if there is one brand that rivals Decware in terms of passionate/happy customers, it’s Inspire.  Dennis, being the former founder/ceo of Cary Audio.  The amp is apparently a tube rollers dream, accepting many different power tubes, such as KT-88, KT-120, or low output tubes such as 6v6.  In fact, I’ve just splurged on a 6v6, while my amp is still being built.  That is my crude way of approximating what the Rachael (at 6 watts) would sound like in my rig.  Though, based on your comments, I have nothing to worry about.

Wondering if there are other members in this group who have tried the Inspire brand and how they compare it with Decware?

Kahuna Jack, Thank you for your posts. The bass performance you are hearing is a from a few things... speed, ability to drive low impedances, and the lower moving mass of the speakers which increases linearity.

A hifi woofer of 110 grams with a large solid state power amp boasting a damping factor of 3000 to obtain a death grip on the long excursion woofer to "control" it is a very different approach than a woofer with 20 grams of moving mass and a tight suspension that doesn't allow it to move more than a few millimeters. The Klipsch is on the right side of the centerline that divides those two examples.

If you want to hear it taken to the extreme, the 17 gram 15 inch full-range driver in our Master Series open baffles with a crossoverless sensitivity of 100dB and a nearly 2 inch thick solid hardwood baffle will make a big impression. In fact, if you have a small room with room boom, open baffle will usually reduce the room boom issue by 50%. .

I'm not trying to sell you speakers, I am just suggesting that the 2 watts with speakers approaching this ideal are always going to slam harder than big solid state on multi-driver speakers and subs.  That's why we do this.  We like sound that approaches real in ideal conditions and this is so far been the best way to get there, having tried many approaches over the past 30 years.


Steve

Yes what Steve said. lol . I'm not a very technical person in fact other then reading ohms I can barely use a multimeter. So although I'm aware of spl , db , room pressurizing factors etc I try to stick with simple descriptions rather then fumble technical descriptions.

What I do have is 40+ years of "playing with" tons of different audio pieces buying,selling,trading and owning short term and long term which has given me the comforting tool of what Ive read Steve refer to as "instincts" . Even with instincts on ones side the fact that pure truth is found only by hooking stuff up and listening for yourself tweaking along the way if you can smell victory.

The fact that Im even discussing the bass quality between a 8 KT88 tube power amp vs a 2 watt  tube amp is amazing to me.

Thanks Steve for the description and the amps. I do have a pair of F15 drivers still in the box ( no baffles yet) but as I said what I'm listening to with the 8000f's has made me super lazy in pursuit of upgrading. We'll see how long that lasts lol

Coming from the solid state world where volume/tone is linear what strikes me most about my zkit with the 25th anniversary mods into F15s in an open baffle is how much tone changes. Zero is zero and 10 is too loud but 3.5-7 is more a change in tone than volume. 3.5 is more bass heavy and 7 is more treble, where 4 on the volume knob seems to be optimum and really quite an impressive bass response.

Why is Lin now shown as an ex-member???

@Mannytheseacow

which brings up another factor that different recordings will have different sweet spots . i have found some recordings that dont sound so great on this system ( mainly older rock recordings ) which is when people start talking about the zrock i suppose. The exposure of poor recordings with high resolution systems is not new to me, thats why I'll always have a 2nd and/or 3rd system more lenient towards 70's double live rock lp's , muddy Aerosmith, ZZ top records etc etc etc.

Quote:


Show me an example of a political post from him. I think he just got fed up with all the back and forth about nothing, and bowed out on his own - like Archie.

Kahuna Jack wrote

Quote:


I'm not sure how much of the controversy over the RP600M you have researched but truth be told everyone who has followed this video has seen why the 600 M is lacking and what they can do about it. It is a budget speaker meeting a consumer level budget price point and low quality parts were used. To me it doesn't make sense to have the finest in hi-fi equipment paired with hyped up marketing. It is mostly because of this company's GR-Research and upgrade kit that pushed Klipsch to redesign the speaker. While they followed some of the advice and upgraded some things the marketing claims that are still simply untrue even for the RP600 M II

https://youtu.be/NH4xI5VXR_o part 1

https://youtu.be/zX-tf2b2OMQ part 2

and the RP-600M II recorded 2 days ago

https://youtu.be/VHfDMYpJnB4 introduction RP-600M II

Lon Wrote Quote:


I might be mistaken I thought I read a thread where this was covered. Maybe it was a different member that was evicted by Donnie.
Apologies I have no traction in that game.

piezo-man (Brad) was the member who felt the hammer of Donnie the Admin owner of the Red Torri.

My ZEN25th handling Spatial Audio Labs X3s quite handily! Huge sound from these speakers. Had no problem with it handling the DNA2s either. Just to be on the safe side, I am leaving my 2nd ZEN25th order in place. DECWARE watts seem to be much more powerful than the industry standard!?!?!?!?  

@BicycleJoe

" It is a budget speaker meeting a consumer level budget price point and low quality parts were used "

Just like the classic Epi 100 speaker that sold millions.... why ?? because it was affordable and sounded soooooooooooooooooo amazingly good. I look forward to getting a chance to listen to the new 600m II's !

I love overhyped products ! my as seen on tv Ginsu knife from 1972 is still the sharpest knife in my drawer ! my well aged High Karate still gets me babes and Ill be dining on a fat delicious burger tonight courtesy of Mr. George Forman and his electric grill. Thanks Geoege , you da man !!

Kahuna. you’re a trip.

I found that in the end, 3.2 SEP watts didn’t slice the loaf good enough for my tastes. Then again, that was a Taboo MK 4-25th that wasn’t designed for speakers first in mind.

I’m really looking forward to my Torii MK 5.

Brad

@tempest62

keep in mind my room is only 10x12 and Im sitting fairly close to speakers then factor in what Im sure helps the cause is that so far Ive stuck mainly to what I consider pretty dynamic recordings. I have a small stack of what I guess are my 'reference' cd's ( im not a streamer) that seem to be a tad louder then the majority of my collection.

I dont know if they are bass/volume boosted in that loudness war thing or just realy well recorded . I only pay about 1/2 attention to micro details with stuff like that.
Emmylou Harris 'wrecking ball ' Dylan 'Oh Mercy' /' time out of mind' Mark Knopfler 'ragpickers dream' , a couple Lyle Lovett cd's ..... those recordings seem to shine a bit more in then most of the stuff I normally listen to.

I had no fear of 2.3 watts until after I got my amp. I had more fear of waiting to get one. I kept my eyes and ears open and snagged one off ebay. It's 18 yrs old, but it got me in the game. Hooked it up and immediately noticed the quickness of the amp, but it lacked any extension up high or down low, but it DID have that airy spread out sound I was wishing for.

My setup is for vinyl only, but I do have the ability to add in a streamer. I was using a Mofi Studiodeck, AT OC9/III, Jolida JD9 and Tekton Pendragons (94db-ish?). The SE84C-EX just didn't measure up to the Jolida 1102 (20w tube amp). Damn. After a few weeks I pulled the Decware and put the Jolida back in. Oh well.

Few weeks ago I had to shuffle turntables in the house and put my Dual 721 in place of the Mofi. Well, well, well...with the Jolida amp I found more highs and lows, let's see what the Decware can do. Immediately I heard 2.3 watts WAS plenty. Bass was back in town and the highs too. I havent turned that Mofi on since. It's got to be something in the setup on that table but I spent hours setting that table up. I recently added a DHC3 and a DHC2 and I'm very satisfied with my setup. Currently I want for nothing...except maybe a UFO!

We'll the student in me failed. I was determined to focus on the UFO2.1 / 8000f combo only until I felt I had a solid grip on what I was hearing with a variety of recordings and even further with upgrading wires/cables maybe even a better dac ( i hate dacs for some reason ).
A local ( fell onto my lap ) purchase of a pair of Zu Audio Omen MK II's poked me in my ribs until I hooked them up for a listen. I didnt really want to yet as Ive made that mistake in past of swapping out too many components all at once and then having to go back and re evaluate everything.
I didnt spend as much time as I wanted to with the new Zu's but very first impression was much much less bass. I havent played with base hight / spikes on my medium thick carpet or play with placement at all so further listening will tell me more of a truth. I should have waited for a bit. Now Im going to have to backtrack on my studies.
I think before I bring the 8000f's back in and/or make baffles for my F15's I am going to take both Klipsch and Zu's outside on my car port for a open air listen to see what I get. Free of room influence.

KJ,

I used to have a pair of Zu with down-firing bass. In addition to moving them up and down with the spikes, I played around with putting them on small pieces of plywood, basically just big enough to catch all four spikes. Definitely got more bass. I felt like the carpet was muffling what was there. YMMV.

Randy

Hey. New guy here. I’d heard of Decware a few years ago and considered getting a Zen amp, but the 2.3 watts scared me off. My speakers are about 93db, 8ohm, but I was worried it may be on the cusp of not efficient enough. I ended up with a Schiit Freya+ and Aegir amp, which sound great in the system, but I still had that remorse of not getting the Zen amp. After rave YouTube reviews and tons of reading on the forum and research, I finally got on the waitlist for a SE84UFO25 last Fall. I’ve since gotten a CSP3 used, sent it to the mothership for full anniversary upgrades and have awakened to the beauty that is Decware. I’m very excited to get the Zen anniversary amp hopefully within the year. Still I’m concerned if it will fit well into my system or if I’m being an idiot by rejecting the idea of just going to a Torii and having none of this anxiety. I know 20watts works great, no issue. …Nope, gonna stick with the plan.

@Sean you bring up something that’s been a concern of mine. You were running an ATOC9 on your Studiodeck, but weren’t satisfied. It looks like the only change you made was to the turntable, but didn’t mention which cartridge was on the Dual turntable. The OC9 looks like a low output cart (0.4mV). I’m wondering if your cart on the Dual deck is a higher output cart, thus giving higher voltage output to the Zen amp.

I’m running a Mofi Ultradeck with a similar output 0.4mV Hana ML and a Sutherland phono stage with 60db max gain. That’s essentially 0.4Volts into the CSP3a. I really love this cart! But, I’m wondering if I may find it to be too low of output and need a higher output cart. Or if I can sufficiently adjust with gain on the CSP3 or more importantly for now I guess, if I should just give in and go for that Torii. Really resisting giving up on that Zen Amp that I regret not getting from the start! Seems like it ultimately worked out for you Sean.

Thanks Sean. Goes to show every little thing can make a difference and that you’ll never really know until you try things out for yourself in your own system

I compare this audio joy level of the ufo2.1/klipsch system to the maybe 3 times in my life that I had a "oh wow are you hearing that?" moment.

first time I ever heard(or saw) julias futterman otl amps driving some multi cell horn speaker system ( Stepehens Tru Sonic i believe) this was 1980's

first time I walked in a stereo shop and heard some Cary SE (330b or 805 i cant remember) amps driving either apogees or carver amazing loudspeakers playing some trendy audio store music for the time ( late 80's early 90's) Andreas Vollenweider probably.

first time hearing Soundlab electrostatics . they were being driven by some highly modified Altec tube amps I dont know model numbers of those big green industrial amplifiers and he had a micro seiki table with 3 different arm/cart combos but I cant remember preamp used.

those were moments that stood out miles apart from my reglar listening patterns

too long ago to compare actual sonic comparisons but Im talking about the joy level of listening

Sean,

I also own a JD9, and while tubes and gain/loading settings definitely make a difference, I found the biggest improvement came with rolling the op amps. I tried a couple low cost options that were still better than the cheap OEM chips, but ended up with Burson Audio V5i in all six positions. I also changed out the coupling caps for Jupiter Beeswax; they were better but the difference was more subtle.

I love the flexibility of the JD9!

David

"The JD9 is perfect for modding and tinkering, not many other phono pre’s offer that at its price point"

@Sean

the schiit mani is more of just a tool in my tool box and is small and easy to use . I did feel I needed an in between setting from the med to high switch positions with the 91ed so extra control would be a blessing.

I have yet to play with my zp3 so Im not sure where its sweet spot is going to rest as far as cartridge compatibility. I have a drawer full of used carts so Im sure I'll find something that sings well with it.
I dont take my vinyl listening super super serious as some although I tend to pretend that I do??

Ive never popped for a premium stylus for the m91ed just the common evg's . Ive owned and sold many V series but have never really invested heavy time in listening. The only mc I ever spent serious time with was a Dynavector Ruby Karat through a Marcof pre and that was years ago so Im sure current mc's out perform the Ruby Karat by miles but then again who knows?