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New ZMA (Read 1740 times)
Carlsbad
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New ZMA
05/18/22 at 22:09:19
 
Haven't gotten all my equipment sorted out yet. †Have a new streamer and power plant coming. †So cable management has some work to do. †

https://share.icloud.com/photos/09avSx9ABYSahDl-ykejaEg_A
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piezoman
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Re: New ZMA
Reply #1 - 05/18/22 at 22:40:39
 
Great choice in your amp and it looks killer badass.

Congratulations! Looking forward to you sharing your new high  ;-)

How long was the wait on your ZMA? Did you get your t-shirt?
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Carlsbad
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Re: New ZMA
Reply #2 - 05/19/22 at 13:34:41
 
Wait was 4 days but I didn't get a t shirt.
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piezoman
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Re: New ZMA
Reply #3 - 05/19/22 at 13:53:07
 
Oh! You were lucky. I remember a recent listing for one @ $5k via hifishark [I think it was usaudiomart]. If that's the one, you got a great deal.
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Carlsbad
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Re: New ZMA
Reply #4 - 05/21/22 at 23:59:19
 
Yes, that's the one I got.  Excellent seller.  I am very happy. thanks.
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piezoman
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Re: New ZMA
Reply #5 - 05/23/22 at 00:34:28
 
You bet.

Oh and with the 25th mods to boot, forgot about that....I'd say you got the deal of the decade! Saving nearly $2k for a pristine ZMA at this point in time [3 year wait list and growing] has got to be completely unheard of and a one-time event.

Congrats once again on seeing it, knowing what it is, and jumping on it right away! You are way ahead of the game now....

Brad
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Carlsbad
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Re: New ZMA
Reply #6 - 05/23/22 at 14:03:30
 
Thanks Brad, Just to make you more jealous, 30 days earlier I jumped on a great deal on a Rachel (SE34I.5).  I'll probably be giving someone else an opportunity to skip the line on it soon.  It was because I spent a month with it that I was ready to go on the ZMA. --Jerry
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piezoman
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Re: New ZMA
Reply #7 - 05/23/22 at 22:13:13
 
Hey Jerry, I'm not surprised. The mighty ZMA has to be literally miles beyond a Rachel.

Good for you....enjoy your profit on the sale of the Rachel, plus you'll never worry about looking back. Double win!
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BicycleJoe
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Re: New ZMA
Reply #8 - 05/23/22 at 23:41:29
 
"Haven't gotten all my equipment sorted out yet. †Have a new streamer and power plant coming. †So cable management has some work to do. †

https://share.icloud.com/photos/09avSx9ABYSahDl-ykejaEg_A"

Pretty sharp Carlsbad you snagged some great deals. I have a question for you about your table do you have glass on the table or just slats on its frame supporting your components on both shelves?
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Same Old DD
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Re: New ZMA
Reply #9 - 05/24/22 at 01:08:09
 
I'm always looking for deals, but you gathered THE Cherry find of the year! Congrats is too mild, but that's all I got left.

This sounds like a big way forward with you sorting your equipment.

Do keep us posted.

*hiding jealous nerve
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jec3504
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Re: New ZMA
Reply #10 - 05/24/22 at 02:04:41
 
BicycleJoe,

Curious what streamer are you going with?


Brad,


Where is your ZBIT in your system? Also my amp is in the 20 waiting for Q.C.
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piezoman
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Re: New ZMA
Reply #11 - 05/24/22 at 02:57:30
 
Hey Joseph,

My ZBIT is between the DAC and CSP3.

Exciting! Time is very close for your long anticipated Torii landing! Let the games begin!
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BicycleJoe
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Re: New ZMA
Reply #12 - 05/24/22 at 03:59:28
 
Some kind of confusion my message was aimed at Carlsbad congratulating him on his bargain-hunting getting the ZMA and Rachel.

I was quoting his first post
" Haven't gotten all my equipment sorted out yet. †Have a new streamer and power plant coming. †So cable management has some work to do.

https://share.icloud.com/photos/09avSx9ABYSahDl-ykejaEg_A

My question to Carlsbad was about his table that was holding the ZMA and his other components. I wasn't sure but I thought perhaps there was no glass in the table and everything was suspended on wood slats.

I don't have a streamer but what I do have is a RACHEL on order along with a ZP3. 12 months to go while I get into room treatments.
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Carlsbad
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Re: New ZMA
Reply #13 - 05/24/22 at 04:22:13
 
@bicyclejoe
Years ago I had a neighbor who has an offroad truck fab shop weld me up a very simple table from 1" square tube steel.  I just cut wood slats from some quality hardwood I had left over buidling a gate.  I notched them so they can't slide off.

thanks for all the great compliments.

As for my system, I have an Allo USBridge streamer coming.  I've been one of the "bits are 1's and 0's" guys.  I'm currently streaming with a NUC as my Roon endpoint.  I'm planning to buy a nice streamer, Auralic or innuos next and decide if I think it makes a difference.

I'm also skeptical that power conditioners make more than a tiny difference.  I have a PS audio PP10 that I haven't installed yet (tomorrow night) and I'll be evaluating it.

Jerry
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jec3504
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Re: New ZMA
Reply #14 - 05/24/22 at 04:47:22
 
Sorry BicycleJoe, my bad. 12 months will go fast.

Thanks Brad, when you get yours mine will just be broken in. Went with the level 2 anniversary mods. The UfO2 was a sweet deal ordering before the price increase. Switched to the full price Torii.
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piezoman
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Re: New ZMA
Reply #15 - 05/24/22 at 05:19:29
 
Youíre welcome Joseph. Looking forward to your impressions when the ship lands on your front porch. I also ordered the 25th A mods. Do it right the first time it donít do it at all.

Iím sure youíll love your new Torii and will forget all about a UFO2. You made the right move regardless of price. The UFO2 will limit your choices in the long run, plus the Torii offers you so many more tuning opportunities that the UFO2 lacks. Speaking for myself I wouldnít be happy with any of that, especially with the risk of what is now about a 2.5-3 year wait to get it right again which would make one extra unhappy.
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BicycleJoe
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Re: New ZMA
Reply #16 - 05/24/22 at 12:09:31
 
G' Morning Jerry

Years ago I had a neighbor who has an offroad truck fab shop weld me up a very simple table from 1" square tube steel. †I just cut wood slats from some quality hardwood I had left over buidling a gate. †I notched them so they can't slide off.

That's pretty smart

I'm looking forward to hearing about your power conditioner as I believe that's a weak link.of mine. Living in the city in a large apartment building, it's never really still or quiet, the buildings systems are above me on the roof. I hear them turn on every morning around 4 AM. Yesterday around noon I turned everything off in the house and just sat quietly listening and I felt my apartment vibrating.

I'm also skeptical that power conditioners will make more than a tiny difference. †And I'm not sure if I want a conditioner or a regenerator.

Good luck with the hunt
Bicycle Joe
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jec3504
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Re: New ZMA
Reply #17 - 05/24/22 at 14:15:46
 
Quote:
†I'm planning to buy a nice streamer, Auralic or innuos next and decide if I think it makes a difference.


Carlsbad please tell us your impressions of that comparison. Have a Pi4 running Volumio as endpoint. Shopping around for a digital frontend for my second system.

Hell yeah Brad, Quote:
especially with the risk of what is now about a 2.5-3 year wait to get it right again which would make one extra unhappy.
Thought about all my options, possibly even just going with a CSP3-SS amp combo. Made my final decision with the help of some good advice from this forum. Right now I'm into the single driver open baffle speaker. Having a little flexibility for speaker options down the road makes sense. For sure the tube rolling possibilities!
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jec3504
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Re: New ZMA
Reply #18 - 05/26/22 at 05:13:50
 
Jerry,

Nice deal on the ZMA. Your Tekton speakers look good on those platforms.
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BicycleJoe
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Re: New ZMA
Reply #19 - 05/26/22 at 13:19:57
 
Carlsbad wrote I'm also skeptical that power conditioners make more than a tiny difference. †I have a PS audio PP10 that I haven't installed yet (tomorrow night) and I'll be evaluating it.

Thanks Jerry, the name Carlsbad, are you in New Mexico ? I was stationed at White Sands Air Force Base near Alamogordo for three years. I really enjoyed my stay in New Mexico.

What do people prefer for their high-end equipment?
Power Regulator Regenerators or Power conditioners isolation transformers.?

Paul McGowan says isolation transformers provide clean power at the cost of voltage regulation and impedance which degrades system performance.

Read https://www.psaudio.com/pauls-posts/its-not-that-simple/

When I asked Steve Deckert of Decware †if he preferred power conditioners or power regenerators specifically about my conditions,
I live on the top floor of an apartment building with 120 units 12 stories tall. he suggested an isolation transformer.

I'd like to get your opinion on this question, I know Danny Richie uses batteries for his reference system, he is completely off grid. But everyone please chime in specifically about what Paul says about voltage regulation regulation and impedance if it also isolates as well as a isolation transformer providing adequate clean power

Or vice versa with using a isolating transformer, has anyone notice a degraded sound because of impedance and voltage regulation?
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GroovySauce
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Re: New ZMA
Reply #20 - 05/26/22 at 13:35:23
 
Great buy! I was surprised how long that stayed on the market.

What is your experience with adding the PP10?

Power makes a massive difference. What the best route to go is hard to say. Different areas have different power. I have 4 boxes doing things to my power to get the best sound.

Torus AVR 15 -> Pi Audio UberBUSS -> Plasmatron 3 (2) Iíve also tried Wall -> UberBUSS -> Torus -> Plasmatrons both sound slightly different.

I also replaced 3 receptacles in the Torus. 1 Furutech NCF Rhodium, Oyaide R1, and Oyaide SWO- GX. They all sound different. Iím waiting 800 hours before making any solid comparisons as rhodium takes a long time to burn in.

The Torus AVR 15 regulates voltage 120V (+/- 4V). Also protects equipment from multiple power events. Decware amps are voltage sensitive. As are many components. Iíve measured the wall voltage from 111-124v in the last week. The AVR has done a good job of keeping the voltage out 117-118. Which I actually prefer over 120.

AVR is hooked up to my network so I can quickly check.

AVR Status
Voltage In:      116V
Voltage Out:      118V
Current Out:      2.4A
System is functioning normally

Torus also makes a non voltage regulating version.

DECWARE offers a solution too, the ZLC.

Power cables and fuses also make a significant difference.

BicycleJoe, When Iím in the city I feel the whole city vibrating: roads, sidewalks, buildings everything. What getís me is the sway of some buildings.
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Carlsbad
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Re: New ZMA
Reply #21 - 05/28/22 at 01:39:37
 
So my impressions of the PP10?  Way cool.  Does it help sound quality?  I think so.  Truth is the ZMA has such a good power supply that it needs the PP less than most amps.  I am a scientist but didn't take the time to scientificly evaluate it.  It showed up the same day as my new streamer and I hooked them both up at once.  Sound is a bit better I think. But at this level, you keep making slight improvements and they are hard to detect.  Most people talk themselves into believing that they can hear them and then post a glowing review.  I am more honest with myself.

The PP10 clearly does what it says it does. currently I have 5% THD and 116 volts coming in and 119.6 volts with .1% thd going out. System load 194 watts.   It even has a built in oscilloscope.  wow, the noise on the incoming sine wave is obvious.  that said, the huge caps on the ZMA go a long way to deal with this.  the clean power probably helps the dac and streamer more.

I'm always very careful with power conditioners because some of them do more harm that good.  Paul McG acknowledges this and explicitly addresses it.   Your Torus sounds like it provides plenty of power. My PP10 outwights you though.  75 lbs.  Lots of copper.  

Jerry
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Carlsbad
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Re: New ZMA
Reply #22 - 05/28/22 at 01:47:19
 
Bicycle Joe,
I'm in Carlsbad, CA.  North san diego county.

the PP10 rectifies the incoming current and the inverts it back to a perfect sine wave.  Wow what an inverter.  (the junk inverters you buy for your motorhome often make a square wave.).

I am very careful to make sure that a power conditioning device (whatever it is called) does not limit current to the amp.  while my amp draws about 170 watts, if I sized my power supply for 170 watts it would sound horrible.  Amps need ready current to support dynamics and bass.  At least 1000 watts (5x faceplate).  I have a 10 wpc amp that sounds horrible with a 14 awg power cord, which should be more than enough.  

So one regnerator that I know is good is the PS audio, PP10.  I saw a thread where someone asked paul McG if he recommended a PP12 (new) or a PP10 (last generation).  He admitted the PP10 might be better for an amp.  PP12 apparently has new bells and whistles.

So yes, I would recommend the PP10.
Jerry
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Lon
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Re: New ZMA
Reply #23 - 05/28/22 at 02:09:00
 
I have a PS Audio P10 and P15. I absolutely now won't do without one, they definitely have proven to me that they improve the sound and safeguard my equipment, and their different modes and settings allow intriguing tailoring of the sound.
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BicycleJoe
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Re: New ZMA
Reply #24 - 05/28/22 at 02:17:20
 
I ordered the ZPL yesterday after I talked to Steve and a few other people.
My apartment building has 120 apartments and is wired for Vios. Even at 3 AM this building is vibrating. Besides the noise on the line I'm concerned about Brown outs. But Steve says the RACHAEL could take the swing without damage. 14 months to design some room treatments.

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Donnie
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Re: New ZMA
Reply #25 - 05/28/22 at 02:51:53
 
I keep wondering about how a Tesla Powerwall would work for clean power?

It wouldn't be hooked to the to the grid, so hopefully it would be quieter.

I suppose the inverter would need to be up to snuff, but I would think that wouldn't be insurmountable.

Is that a crazy idea?
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Carlsbad
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Re: New ZMA
Reply #26 - 05/28/22 at 03:25:29
 
Donnie,
Never underestimate Elon.  But I would suspect the inverter in the powerwall is below audiophile quality.  I am impressed as heck with the PP10 inverter.  but for routine household use, generally it is accepted that not such a great inverter is needed so it would probably be non-competetive to put an excellent inverter in a consumer product like the tesla powerwall.  --Jerry
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GroovySauce
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Re: New ZMA
Reply #27 - 05/28/22 at 14:24:49
 
Jerry, Thanks for your report.

I had a P3 when I was living in the Philippines and it was a much needed component. It made my system sound better, and it protected from over voltage every other week.

Quote:
But at this level, you keep making slight improvements and they are hard to detect.


My experience is as the system gets more resolving, minor changes are easily perceived.

My suspicions about the Tesla Powerwall mirror Jerryís. The audiophile solution might be to have the Powerwall hooked into a whole house isolation transformer.
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jec3504
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Re: New ZMA
Reply #28 - 05/28/22 at 16:20:24
 
Thanks everyone excellent discussion!
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BicycleJoe
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Re: New ZMA
Reply #29 - 05/29/22 at 16:32:25
 
Thanks Jerry

He admitted the PP10 might be better for an amp.

I agree with you Jerry, that's the unit I would like to try behind the ZPC in front of the Rachel. It is discontinued so I put a notification on Audiogon if one pops up.

I would also try it alone. After talking to Steve he believes I need not worry about brownouts because of the oversized transformer, he said it will not be affected by brownouts. I am still worried about search protection since I do not believe the ZPC offers any surge protection at all. I forget if surge protection is standard with the PP10 or if it is an upgrade option.

Steve does not like regenerators because he mentioned some of them have firmware running, circuit boards and solid state parts that take away from the signal while lowering impedance and providing steady voltage that is not necessarily clean voltage but steady. Of course we need to take Paul and Steve as two different ends of the spectrum philosophically and try to read behind between the lines.

Again thanks to everyone for helping me figure all this out I am concentrating on the wall and room treatments while I sit out this 14 month wait list.
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BicycleJoe
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Re: New ZMA
Reply #30 - 05/29/22 at 16:48:15
 
Donnie Wrote I keep wondering about how a Tesla Powerwall would work for clean power?

It wouldn't be hooked to the to the grid, so hopefully it would be quieter.

I suppose the inverter would need to be up to snuff, but I would think that wouldn't be insurmountable.

Is that a crazy idea?


Maybe Elon can offer 10th anniversary mods †:D
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Re: New ZMA
Reply #31 - 05/29/22 at 17:18:10
 
Hey BicycleJoe, just a suggestion, could you do away with the yellow background on your quotes? †It's quite jarring to the eyes. † Cool
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piezoman
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Re: New ZMA
Reply #32 - 05/29/22 at 18:14:18
 
Quote:
brownouts


Brownouts? No, blackouts are coming across the country starting this summer. One not need to wonder why.
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BicycleJoe
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Re: New ZMA
Reply #33 - 05/30/22 at 06:11:53
 
ARCHIE Said "Hey BicycleJoe, just a suggestion, could you do away with the yellow background on your quotes? †It's quite jarring to the eyes".

I agree and I have tried to and I'd be glad to do it but only if someone can tell me how to change the background color., I have forgotten how to code Wink

Piezoman Said Brownouts? No, blackouts are coming across the country starting this summer. One not need to wonder why.

Brownouts are almost a daily NYC occurrence in July and August these last 20 years, this can be very damaging to equipment not just the sound.
In my life we have had four blackouts in New York City,
Northeast blackout of 1965. New York City blackout of 1977. Northeast blackout of 2003. Manhattan blackout of July 2019. The reason we've had so few blackouts is the controlled brown outs.

The United States isn't even in the top 100 countries for most blackouts Pakistan regionally suffers 75 blackouts a month

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Re: New ZMA
Reply #34 - 05/30/22 at 06:19:48
 
Quote:
I agree and I have tried to and I'd be glad to do it but only if someone can tell me how to change the background color., I have forgotten how to code Wink


Hmm, when I use the quote function the default is the white background. †I assumed you were somehow changing it. † Undecided
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piezoman
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Re: New ZMA
Reply #35 - 05/30/22 at 13:18:30
 
Quote:
The United States isn't even in the top 100 countries for most blackouts Pakistan regionally suffers 75 blackouts a month


Pakistan is a major shithole country. The point I eluded to is that we are becoming that way too, and that is absolutely on purpose.

Blackouts are coming this summer, across the USA, and it will be due to purposeful policy already put in place no thanks to all the blind, deaf and especially dumb who insisted on making it possible.
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GroovySauce
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Posts: 411
Re: New ZMA
Reply #36 - 05/30/22 at 14:40:06
 
Brad, on the plus side, I hear they play a mean pinball!

I find the quotes easiest to read. Quote:
12th from the left in the top row or 8th from the right. Paper with a blue arrow pointing right is the icon.


The next 7-8 years we will experience more, and violent electrical storms. Space weather has been more intense in this cycle than recent cycles. The possibility of space weather causing a blackout is very real.

Spaceweathernews.com is a good place to learn more about space weather.

The Carrington Event 1859 was a major hit the earth took from a CME. It was so intense that telegraph stations continued to work after being unplugged and the batteries removed.

1989 Parts of the Quebec power grid failed because of a CME.

This year, Spacex satellites fell from the sky after a solar storm hit them.

The issue with things like solar is that the possibility of the solar panels and microchips will be destroyed in a direct hit from a CME.

DECWARE amps should be fine though Cheesy
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Rega P8 | Zephyr MIMC★ | Innuos ZENith MK3 | May KTE DAC | ZP3 25th ZMC1 | ZRock2 25th | EMIA Remote Autoformer | Torii MKIV 25th | Snake River Audio Cables | PAP Quintet 15 1.6 Voxativ Custom XO & SRA cables| Torus AVR15 | Acoustic Treatments
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BicycleJoe
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It's All In One Note

Posts: 119
Re: New ZMA
Reply #37 - 05/30/22 at 14:57:56
 
Quote:
That's the Ticket Thanks GrooveySauce


Quote:
DECWARE amps should be fine though
Cheesy
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OnOrder
*Rachel SE 34.6IANVmods*ZP3ANVmods*ZLC*
Due summer 2023
In House *JVC QLY-66F DD TT*JBL 240Ti* *Rega IO*Carver Receiver*

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Carlsbad
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Posts: 57
Re: New ZMA
Reply #38 - 05/31/22 at 03:48:25
 
@bicyclejoe
Indeed the PS Audio regenerator likely has printed circuit boards. †So does your streamer, DAC, and practically every other component except a tube amp. †PC boards are bad in the signal path. †But nowhere else. †For power, we want clean power and the regenerator does it very well. †I will attach a photo of the screen on my PP10 showing the THD in and THD out. †Since I took this photo I have adjusted it and it runs consistently at .1% THD out. †https://share.icloud.com/photos/0e0yvdP10MopfqaRfAaR73eCg

What you want to look at for a power source such as a regenerator is anything that will limit power to the amp such as high output impedence that slows everything down. †I certainly don't agree with everything Paul McG says but he seems to have the power thing well understood (BTW, I'm a physicist). †I think if you drove over to Steve's place with a PP10 he would put his seal of approval on it. †

the PP10 also provides protection from brownouts. †It can bump the voltage up to 120 from some very low number, perhaps 95. †Below that it will shut off. †It also provides isolation from surges.

Now think about it however, if you are trying to protect your $2000 Rachel with a $5000 power plant, are you gaining anything? †The power plant can be killed by lightning etc.

Jerry
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Decware ZMA with 25th mods
Decware SE34.I5, Rachel (backup)
Chord Dave DAC
Tekton Encore Speakers
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tempest62
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Posts: 33
Re: New ZMA
Reply #39 - 06/13/22 at 19:52:57
 
Hey Carl,

How is your fantastic ZMA sounding?

Brad
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Torii MK 5-25th (on waitlist), CSP3, ZBIT. ZRock2-25th, Bryston BDA-3 DAC+BDP-2 player, Brickwall 8, Ansuz conditioning, DHC-1, DSR-3, ZStyx, Omega Jr. XRS 8 alnico, Omega DH 8, PI Audio diffusion + DIY room treatmentsÖAudeze LCD-4, Norne Audio Silvergarde S3.
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jec3504
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learn program.

Posts: 284
Re: New ZMA
Reply #40 - 06/13/22 at 21:18:03
 
Brad, Not too late. Thinking about changing your order to a ZMA?
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Waiting for ZRock2-25th
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2 Aegir ,Torii MK 5-25th
RP600M F-15 W-15
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tempest62
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Posts: 33
Re: New ZMA
Reply #41 - 06/13/22 at 22:17:03
 
Jonathan, the cost-to-benefit associated with the difference in cost is too high imo. Plus I donít want solid state rectification. The Torii MK 5 offers a shit ton of tuning options that I am not interested in living without.

Is your heart pounding in anticipation for yours? Iíll bet youíre beside yourself. Exciting!!


Brad
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Torii MK 5-25th (on waitlist), CSP3, ZBIT. ZRock2-25th, Bryston BDA-3 DAC+BDP-2 player, Brickwall 8, Ansuz conditioning, DHC-1, DSR-3, ZStyx, Omega Jr. XRS 8 alnico, Omega DH 8, PI Audio diffusion + DIY room treatmentsÖAudeze LCD-4, Norne Audio Silvergarde S3.
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jec3504
Seasoned Member
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I'm on the live and
learn program.

Posts: 284
Re: New ZMA
Reply #42 - 06/14/22 at 00:21:29
 
Quote:
Is your heart pounding in anticipation for yours? Iíll bet youíre beside yourself. Exciting!!


No not really been busy these days. Delivery is tomorrow. Hopefully I have sometime to sit and enjoy the next few weeks.

You must be getting pretty close. Are you under 50 yet?


Ok I am getting excited!

Joseph

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Waiting for ZRock2-25th
Pi4 Bifrost2 Freya+
2 Aegir ,Torii MK 5-25th
RP600M F-15 W-15
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tempest62
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Posts: 33
Re: New ZMA
Reply #43 - 06/14/22 at 14:20:16
 
Joseph, [my apology for calling you Jonathan]

Ha, I knew it! Smiley

I'm right at 99. There are 13 in QC or testing right now so they're very soon to ship, which will put me at 86.

Brad
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Torii MK 5-25th (on waitlist), CSP3, ZBIT. ZRock2-25th, Bryston BDA-3 DAC+BDP-2 player, Brickwall 8, Ansuz conditioning, DHC-1, DSR-3, ZStyx, Omega Jr. XRS 8 alnico, Omega DH 8, PI Audio diffusion + DIY room treatmentsÖAudeze LCD-4, Norne Audio Silvergarde S3.
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