Forums - Dancing Meter Needles

GroovySauce

Seasoned Member

Posts: 815

Dancing Meter Needles
05/01/21 at 23:27:07

What does it mean when the needles on the meters start dancing when you turn up the amp?

On the ZMA I’m burning in some drivers and really turning it up. The needles start to dance at about the same time I can see the drivers moving a lot.

When the needles start dancing is this shortening the life of the tubes? is it stressing the amp in a way that will harm it? Is it okay to have a little bump on the needles? what about a big swing?

For context:

I’m currently burning in my new PAP quintet 15 drivers and XO, baffles should be here this coming week!

I have them setup so I can listen to music as they are playing, sounds off, yet better than I expected. I have about 100 hours on them right now.

I’ve experienced that after a speaker has hundreds of hours on them “having a party” can significantly improve the sound.

Many years ago I had Watt Puppy 8’s driven by VTL MB-450’s I had had them for many months maybe a year. I had a party and it was cranking, dance club levels! I blew 2 tubes and the police were called…. it was loud!

Side note, from a teenager I’ve worn and carried earplugs and yes I was wearing ear plugs that night.

A few days later after I was fully recovered from my hangover I had a listening session. It was very memorable! I couldn’t believe how good my system sounded! Having 16 6550’s total and they weren’t matched I don’t think the 2 new tubes made the significant difference. It was the driver mechanical bits that got a good workout.

Ever since, after I have some time on a pair of speakers I play them loud for a few hours. I’ve consistently found improvements doing this.

Today I popped in my ear plugs and turned up the ZMA and the needles started to bump with the music. turned it up a little more and they started to really dance with the music, turned it up even more and they started to go crazy flopping around not related to the music.

Is it okay to let the needles “dance” a little? or should I find a 200w+ amp to borrow for a day?

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Archie

Seasoned Member

Posts: 2731

Re: Dancing Meter Needles
Reply #1 - 05/01/21 at 23:43:05

I think Steve addresses this in either the ZMA or Mono product description. Anyway, he once said that when the meters start to move, you are pushing to the top of the specs and when they really move, you are starting to clip.

I never mind a little bouncing around but I avoid the big swings.

Oh, and I think if just one needle is moving it can indicate a weak power tube.

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ZLC
Technics 1200G TT w/ Ortofon Jubilee MC cart
ZMC1
ZP3 (25th A Mods)
ZR2 (25th A Mods)
CSP3 (25th A mods)
ZMA (25th A mods)
Homemade Big Betsy Speakers (F15s)
Silver Cabling
DIY Isolation platforms under amps & TT.

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GroovySauce Seasoned Member Posts: 815	Re: Dancing Meter Needles Reply #2 - 05/02/21 at 00:12:45 Is there any downside to running the amp for a few hours with the needles happily dancing? If it's hard on the tubes I can live with that. I'm not talking the airdancer movement you see in front of a used car lot.
Back to top	Maximus NEO TT\|ViV Rigid Float TA \| Phasemation PP-200 or Hana ML \| Sutherland Little Loco MK2 \| Innuos ZENith MK3 \| LampizatOr GA TRP \| EMIA Remote Autoformer \| STL "Super Tube Rectifier" STR-1002 \| SRA Cables \| PAP Quintet 15 1.6 Voxativ \|Torus AVR15 IP Logged

Archie Seasoned Member Posts: 2731	Re: Dancing Meter Needles Reply #3 - 05/02/21 at 00:28:57 I'm not sure but do you have a quad of tubes that you don't care about that you could use?
Back to top	ZLC Technics 1200G TT w/ Ortofon Jubilee MC cart ZMC1 ZP3 (25th A Mods) ZR2 (25th A Mods) CSP3 (25th A mods) ZMA (25th A mods) Homemade Big Betsy Speakers (F15s) Silver Cabling DIY Isolation platforms under amps & TT. IP Logged

GroovySauce Seasoned Member Posts: 815	Re: Dancing Meter Needles Reply #4 - 05/02/21 at 01:48:13 I have a new quad of KT66's on the way so I'm not worried about stressing the tubes. I'll turn my room into a disco tomorrow 8-) I do wonder if it's stressing the input tubes though.
Back to top	Maximus NEO TT\|ViV Rigid Float TA \| Phasemation PP-200 or Hana ML \| Sutherland Little Loco MK2 \| Innuos ZENith MK3 \| LampizatOr GA TRP \| EMIA Remote Autoformer \| STL "Super Tube Rectifier" STR-1002 \| SRA Cables \| PAP Quintet 15 1.6 Voxativ \|Torus AVR15 IP Logged

Archie Seasoned Member Posts: 2731	Re: Dancing Meter Needles Reply #5 - 05/02/21 at 03:24:27 My guess is that it does. I was biasing some tubes on the high side and I think that shortened their life. So "pulsing" would seem to do a similar thing since the voltage keeps spiking.
Back to top	ZLC Technics 1200G TT w/ Ortofon Jubilee MC cart ZMC1 ZP3 (25th A Mods) ZR2 (25th A Mods) CSP3 (25th A mods) ZMA (25th A mods) Homemade Big Betsy Speakers (F15s) Silver Cabling DIY Isolation platforms under amps & TT. IP Logged

GroovySauce Seasoned Member Posts: 815	Re: Dancing Meter Needles Reply #6 - 05/03/21 at 01:00:07 I let it rip for 45 minutes or so... Now the channel balance is off... I guess one or more of the tubes had enough and is getting tired! 2-3db to the left and it's all balanced again.
Back to top	Maximus NEO TT\|ViV Rigid Float TA \| Phasemation PP-200 or Hana ML \| Sutherland Little Loco MK2 \| Innuos ZENith MK3 \| LampizatOr GA TRP \| EMIA Remote Autoformer \| STL "Super Tube Rectifier" STR-1002 \| SRA Cables \| PAP Quintet 15 1.6 Voxativ \|Torus AVR15 IP Logged

GroovySauce

Seasoned Member

Posts: 815

Re: Dancing Meter Needles
Reply #7 - 05/04/21 at 03:07:31

My Brother brought over his UFO25TH for the night. When it starts to clip you see the OA3's start to blink. 92db peaks at 8feet on PAP quintet 15's at 8 feet.

I normally listen below 80dB peaks usually 70-75dB peaks. Some times a song just call for rocking out volume.

Here is what the UFO25th looks like when it starts to clip.

https://vimeo.com/544827627

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