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Where to buy NOS rectifiers? (Read 5044 times)
thethanimal
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Where to buy NOS rectifiers?
11/19/20 at 21:55:49
 
As a tube newbie I’m at a loss of where to buy reputable NOS rectifiers for my SE84UFO. Can someone post some links?

It appears that my stock rectifier just died after only a few months. I was going to use that Black Friday coupon for some backup tubes but hear NOS makes a difference for rectifiers.
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Archie
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Re: Where to buy NOS rectifiers?
Reply #1 - 11/19/20 at 22:12:38
 
eBay has been a great source of tubes for me.
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CAJames
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Re: Where to buy NOS rectifiers?
Reply #2 - 11/19/20 at 22:26:45
 
Agree with ebay. But if you don't want to mess with ebay and just want to get a NOS rectifier that is built like a hammer you can go here:

https://www.surplussales.com/Tubes-Sock-Acc/0-5/TubesListed-5.html

And order a 5U4WG. It will probably outlast your amp.

If you want to get a little fancier I've done business here:

http://audiotubes.com/

https://www.vacuumtubes.com/

And been very happy.
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thethanimal
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Re: Where to buy NOS rectifiers?
Reply #3 - 11/19/20 at 23:42:32
 
With eBay I don’t know how to tell if what is being advertised is legitimate or not. What would I look for?
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Archie
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Re: Where to buy NOS rectifiers?
Reply #4 - 11/19/20 at 23:52:18
 
Figure out what you're looking for and search the sellers.  Look at the feedback.  I've bought scores of tubes from Russian and Ukrainian sellers with great results.  I'm not sure what international shipping is like now though.  There are other domestic tube sellers that I've found on eBay but ended up buying direct through their web sites.  Here is one very reputable seller:  https://vacuumtubevalues.com/  I've bought several quads of power tubes from him.
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Archie
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Re: Where to buy NOS rectifiers?
Reply #5 - 11/20/20 at 00:37:54
 
Here is an example of a listing for the rectifier I am currently using in my ZP3 and CSP3.  Not sure it can be used in your amp though.  As I said, look at price and feedback of the sellers.  Sometimes buying more than one at a time gets worthwhile savings.  When I bought this tube type I got a pair.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/Lot-of-1-pc-5C3S-5U4G-GZ31-1960s-Black-Anode-Svetlana-R...
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thethanimal
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Re: Where to buy NOS rectifiers?
Reply #6 - 11/20/20 at 01:42:12
 
Thanks Archie. The SE84UFO uses the same rectifier as your pre and phono stage. Would you say that tube you linked to was a noticeable improvement over the stock Chinese tube?
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lobo
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Re: Where to buy NOS rectifiers?
Reply #7 - 11/20/20 at 04:54:23
 
I have had good luck with MDB Ventures Vacuum Tubes .
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CAJames
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Re: Where to buy NOS rectifiers?
Reply #8 - 11/20/20 at 15:06:40
 
Yes, I have bought several rectifiers from MDB as well.

http://www.fourwater.com/

I'll also put in a plug for the 5Z3 rectifier. It is the 4 pin version of the 5U4, and typically available for considerably less $$$. Just get a 4 to 8 pin adapter. Seems like even the 5U4 is starting to get bid up.
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Archie
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Re: Where to buy NOS rectifiers?
Reply #9 - 11/20/20 at 16:31:06
 
I haven't used the stock rectifiers in so many years I couldn't say.  But as I moved off of them I preferred everything over them.  I like the RCA Number 80 (needs a pin adapter) and the RCA 5V4GA both of which which can be found cheap.  I have so many rectifiers that I'll probably never need to buy another.  All of these tubes were recommended by other Forum members.  My current favorite is the Svetlana but that could be as much for their amazing construction.  The are full of tiny springs!

I try to stay away from everything Chinese these days including tubes.  The old stock tubes and new Russian tubes have all outshined them in my experience.
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CAJames
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Re: Where to buy NOS rectifiers?
Reply #10 - 11/20/20 at 16:57:29
 
Just FYI/FWIW here is a post from Steve from a few months ago, that perfectly sums up my feelings on the subject:

Quote:
Re: Roll Rachael Roll
Reply #13 - 06/23/20 at 06:08:32
Some great feedback regarding quality tubes...  

The beauty of a tube amp is that you can change the tubes.  You can change the tubes when they grow tired and lazy sounding over time... or you can change the tubes when you grow bored or just want to take a different seat in the music hall so that you can hear the music from a different perspective. So this leads to tube rolling which leads to brands and types... and here is some of what I know that you should know:


Current production vs. New Old Stock. In my experience the only consistently solid tubes on the market today come from Russia. Brands like Mullard, Tungsol, Electro Harmonix, Sovtek, Svetlana. The rights to these brand names have been acquired over the years by New Sensor Corp in the USA, who is predominately a tube supplier for the music industry / guitar amps. They own or partially own factories in Russia.

Decware purchases it's Russian tubes direct from Russia in bulk with the exception of the larger output tubes (EL34/KT66/KT88) which are current production branded tubes imported into the USA. All of the the Russian tubes that we purchase direct from Russia are N.O.S. Russian Military Grade tubes. Many of them have Gold grids, thick glass, high G ratings for missile use, and longer life, in some cases 10,000 hours.  These are ultra-hi-end tubes in disguise and have always been.   To hear how good these tubes are you have to install an American New Old Stock rectifier tube.

My experience with Boutique Chinese brands is mixed. The sound is good, the reliability and or consistency is ridiculous. I have been purchasing samples of these fancy tubes as they come out over the past many years and I have an entire collection of crippled tubes. Even KT88's that cost $1600 a quad drifted out of usable tolerance within days and had to be replaced.

New Old Stock is the real deal. Those who like to push the envelope of what is possible with their amplifier will often go down this path with no regrets. For one thing, the tubes not only sound better, but often last longer, in some cases like with rectifier tubes up to 10 times longer.

Rectifiers are a subject all in their own. Russian rectifiers are acceptable, everything else is a no-go from a reliability standpoint with some rare exceptions that are very pricey. My advise to all Decware amplifier owners is to find yourself a New Old Stock 5U4 or a 5R4 that has never been used and comes in it's original un-molested box. Consider the current production rectifier tube we ship with the amp the best sounding and most attractive  option that will last long enough for you to find a real N.O.S. replacement.

Finding N.O.S. tubes is easy, even on eBay there are millions. Since you only need one or two you will have more to choose from than you know what to do with.  Finding quantity of these tubes is another story. If Decware could secure reliable inventory of 1000's of N.O.S. rectifiers, it is an investment we would gladly make but in 25 years is has yet to happen. Because we can't find N.O.S. tubes in large quantities, even batches of 100 would be gone in less than 30 days, we feel there is no point in even trying.  

For the customer it is easy, just find a N.O.S. 5U4 tube on eBay that is unused, and in it's original box for $40 and it could easily last for 10 years or more and sound better the entire time.

As an amplifier designer, it is possible to create circuits that baby the rectifier tube by limiting inrush current, using smaller capacitors, running higher voltages with a choke and so on.  Correctly done, this can make a Chinese rectifier tube last the full rated 500 hours or more.  The problem with this is that it changes the sound quality of the amplifier well outside what we find acceptable.  So, we have to make a choice, do we design tube amplifiers to baby the crappie rectifier tubes being made today, or do we design amplifiers to use REAL tubes.  Of course the answer has to be REAL tubes, because we make real amps.
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Archie
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Re: Where to buy NOS rectifiers?
Reply #11 - 11/20/20 at 17:09:34
 
James,

Good stuff!  One thing I'd challenge though is the need to buy NOS in the original box for $40.  There are plenty of great RCA tubes for cheap that don't have boxes but still seem to be NOS.  Of course, the NOS Russian tubes don't ever come in boxes, in my experience.  I'm not trying to quibble here.  I'm just saying that with relatively low risk, "NOS" tubes can be had for cheap.  I rarely even look for those special NOS tubes that are considered the best of the best though.
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CAJames
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Re: Where to buy NOS rectifiers?
Reply #12 - 11/20/20 at 17:27:09
 
I totally agree with you, that's exactly what I do. But, that requires a level of shall we say, comfort, or experience, with tube buying that not everyone has. IMO, and don't mean to come across as a snob or judgmental in any way, if you are asking a message board for advice on buying you first NOS tube you are least likely to have problems if you follow Steve's advice. Or the link in my first post where you can get a NOS milspec 5U4 for $35 that will probably last a lifetime.





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Archie
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Re: Where to buy NOS rectifiers?
Reply #13 - 11/20/20 at 17:30:02
 
Good point!
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thethanimal
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Re: Where to buy NOS rectifiers?
Reply #14 - 11/21/20 at 19:13:09
 
CAJames is there enough room for that 5U4WB in the Zen amp? It looks huge.

I ordered a 1955 RCA 5U4G that tests NOS off eBay, but since I’m hating sitting around with no music I figured I’d order a second as backup or to just learn about differences. I like the idea of the 5U4WB being milspec. That website is also offering a 5U4GB Phillips NOS that’s milspec and normal sized. Any thoughts on the differences?

Thanks to everyone for all your help! I also spoke with Steve on the phone on Friday and we told me what was posted above from another thread. Seems like that ought to be in the manual.
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CAJames
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Re: Where to buy NOS rectifiers?
Reply #15 - 11/21/20 at 21:57:59
 
The 5U4WG is only a little bigger at the base than "regular" tubes, and not as big as the "coke bottle" ST shaped rectifiers. I don't think there will be any problem at all.

Regarding the Philips rectifier, I don't have any experience with that exact tube, but Philips ECG has a terrible reputation for audio and my advice would be to steer well clear of them. The other 5U4GBs on that page would be a much better choice IMO.
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canonken
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Re: Where to buy NOS rectifiers?
Reply #16 - 12/15/20 at 01:14:25
 
Quote:
Agree with ebay. But if you don't want to mess with ebay and just want to get a NOS rectifier that is built like a hammer you can go here:

https://www.surplussales.com/Tubes-Sock-Acc/0-5/TubesListed-5.html

And order a 5U4WG. It will probably outlast your amp.


Thanks for the link!

Thoughts on getting just some plain 5U4G and/or 5U4GB from them?  $20/25 each.

What makes the WG better?

Finally, these are $20 each, these good?

https://www.surplussales.com/Tubes-Sock-Acc/0-5/5u4.html
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CAJames
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Re: Where to buy NOS rectifiers?
Reply #17 - 12/15/20 at 15:08:53
 
The 5U4WG aka 5931 is just overbuilt like no rectifier (or any other tube for that matter) I've ever seen. Extra support rods, 3 micas, thick glass, that huge base; I don't know what the military used it for but if I ever need to take a vacuum tube into combat that is the one I'd reach for. And its reputation on the internets for durability is fully consistent with its impressive build. I'm not saying it is the best sounding rectifier in my tube caddy, but it sounds fine and if you want a "set it and forget it" option this is an easy recommendation.

As for the other rectifiers on the site I'm sure they are fine, except for the one in your link. As I said above, I don't have experience with that particular tube, but I avoid Philips ECG tubes like the "britches of a man with an itch," and I encourage everyone else to do the same. The brand has a terrible reputation, and by far the worst tubes I've ever bought were Philips ECG.
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Rivieraranch
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Re: Where to buy NOS rectifiers?
Reply #18 - 12/15/20 at 17:44:17
 
When Phillips took over the Sylvania vacuum tube production it was clearly the "last gasp."
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canonken
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Re: Where to buy NOS rectifiers?
Reply #19 - 12/15/20 at 23:12:00
 
Wow thanks, I didn't know Philips NOS stuff would be bad.

How about a few of the $20 RCA 5U4G - any reason those would not be good?  I like the idea of having some more affordable things on hand and a cheap way to buy me 'hours'.

If you can verify the 5U4WG works (and sounds good!?) for the UFO, I'd certainly grab some of those.

Thanks!
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Archie
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Re: Where to buy NOS rectifiers?
Reply #20 - 12/16/20 at 00:13:44
 
I've bought several affordable RCA rectifiers on eBay with great results.  You don't have to pay a fortune for a NOS tube.  The RCA type 80 is also a nice tube but you'll need a base adapter.
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ZLC
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CAJames
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Re: Where to buy NOS rectifiers?
Reply #21 - 12/16/20 at 01:04:08
 
Quote:
Posted by: canonken      Posted on: Yesterday at 23:12:00
Wow thanks, I didn't know Philips NOS stuff would be bad.


Be careful, it isn't "Philips" that is the problem. It is specifically Philips ECG that sold tubes to the military in the 80's that you should avoid.

As for the 5U4WG, yes it works and sounds good in my UFOs.
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safebelayer
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Re: Where to buy NOS rectifiers?
Reply #22 - 12/19/20 at 07:23:32
 
I've yet to meet anyone as knowledgeable as Andy Bauman at vintage tube services. He'll give you the straight scoop on any of these tubes. He's not the cheapest, but certainly the most credible; hence the safest. That's my 2¢.

Good luck in your search.
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Rivieraranch
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Re: Where to buy NOS rectifiers?
Reply #23 - 12/19/20 at 10:41:01
 
Jim McShane, online; then there is Jim Cross of Vacuum Tubes, Inc., in Orlando, Florida. I've dealt with McShane many times. I met Cross up in Orlando at his shop. Me and a friend talked to him at length at the time.
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CAJames
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Re: Where to buy NOS rectifiers?
Reply #24 - 12/19/20 at 18:28:46
 
I've never spoken to him but I've done business with  Jim Cross as well and been very happy.
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will
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Re: Where to buy NOS rectifiers?
Reply #25 - 12/19/20 at 18:35:01
 
Having done the transaction by phone, I am not absolutely sure it was Jim Cross in Orlando (vacuumtubesinc.com), but I am positive enough that he is the guy where I found some hard-to-get, reasonably priced, RK-60 rectifiers to be comfortable commenting....the tubes look the same, the price is the same, he was in Orlando, etc.

As I recall, he was friendly and a serious tube guy with good technical awareness about rectifiers, and those I bought from him were well packed and good quality.

But when I asked him if he would pick me tubes that matched, visually,  in construction, and electronically, he was taken aback.... eventually revealing that he did not think one could hear differences in rectifiers..... As we know, this is not easy to understand with the knowledge techs tend to have based on how rectifiers work, but we also know that we can definitely hear differences if we have transparent and revealing systems.

Though he said "I am not saying I don't believe you.....but, ......." I am pretty sure I had little luck convincing him that one could clearly hear the sonic influence of rectifiers in my amps.

So my take, for the sake of information relative to this thread, if one needs advice on good rectifiers based on sound, this may not be the place to go. But if you know what you want, and ask for a good match if you need a pair, in my experience this was a good place to shop.
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canonken
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Re: Where to buy NOS rectifiers?
Reply #26 - 12/19/20 at 18:59:19
 
In fairness, highly-technical people tend to be skeptical of a lot of what we obsess over for sound quality improvements.  Definitely the 'if I can't see it on the scope it isn't real' viewpoint.

I work with some electrical engineers at work, related to audio gear, and they are very much in this camp.  They will go to the ends of the earth to improve sound quality, but start talking about audiophile power cords and they roll their eyes.
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will
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Re: Where to buy NOS rectifiers?
Reply #27 - 12/19/20 at 22:05:16
 
Sure enough. It certainly seems that beliefs in perpetually static "knowledge" can easily rule out experiential learning....an unfortunate, but sadly common syndrome. Obviously not all by any means, but many of us who are techy/science oriented do tend to attach to our knowledge as too static, contributing a little too easily to being "blinded" by our  "knowledge." Associated, when devoted to what we "know" as the whole and only truth, we often tend to be quite adamant in expressing it.

The sad part fo me: those of us who are less confident in our "knowledge," we often subconsciously defer to people who appear to be "authorities," inadvertently adopting all, or parts, of authoritative ideologies whether true to reality or not. And adopting static beliefs that are not fully real, impedes creative exploration, reducing the possibilities for experiential knowledge.

Obviously this is not just techy folks....many of us, including many seasoned audiophiles, "attach" to what we know as "static fact," these same static beliefs often holding us back from the potential of improving our musical experience. A human syndrome really, it seems most all of us suffer from this tragedy of belief = knowledge to various degrees.

The oddest thing to me is that perpetually "static" does not conform with nature.

When all in nature, including each of us, our cells, organs, our brains.... are in a steady state of transformation, then why not thought and knowledge? Being in a state of transformation ourselves, and being parts of a world that is in a constant state of transformation, how can perpetually static "knowledge" legitimately exist?

But many of us strongly "believe" things derived from "learning" from within a limited knowledge base. And probably worse, by hearing something enough times, it can start to seem real to us.

Especially disturbing to me, partial information, conveyed as total information, empowers habitual skepticism about anything less defined from within the limitations of science and what is "known" at any given time in history. Yet science and education are designed to seek to expand "the knowledge!" How can we expand perpetually static knowledge?

Finally, adamantly expressed skepticism, if believed, holds many, in audio (and elsewhere), back from open-minded experiences and developing personal discernment.

Completing the circle, without open-minded exploration, we limit our experiential learning potential, leaving our knowledge less refined than it could be. For audio, not trusting and cultivating our discernment through experience, can obviously limit potential for more and more complete musical experiences.

Alternately, if we are open minded, have a revealing system, and have the thirst to refine our perceptive and  discernment abilities, we experience many things that are difficult to fully, or sometimes, even partially quantify..... things that can notably enhance musical immersion, but can be difficult to explain.

What a trap parts of our human condition can be!
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CAJames
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Re: Where to buy NOS rectifiers?
Reply #28 - 12/19/20 at 22:31:21
 
Quote:
Posted by: canonken      Posted on: Today at 18:59:19
In fairness, highly-technical people tend to be skeptical of a lot of what we obsess over for sound quality improvements.  Definitely the 'if I can't see it on the scope it isn't real' viewpoint.


My thing (and, full disclosure, I'm a physicist by education and vocation) is no one ever bought a Stradivarius, or a Rembrandt or a Chateau Margaux based on measurements, and I'm not going to buy stereo gear based on them either.
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Rivieraranch
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Re: Where to buy NOS rectifiers?
Reply #29 - 12/20/20 at 00:07:16
 
Embrace what sounds good.
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